True Line new "Fowler" pictures


Michael Aufderheide
 

Tim,
 
This is hardly "much" but I do have CP 180528 with a load of rubber from Bloomington IN to Michigan City IN on 10/20/1948.  It is listed as 36' steel underframe 8' IH with a 5' door. I don't know its final destination, but most of the cars for Michigan City were either to Haskell & Barker, the Michigan Central or the South Shore.  In the same set of conductor's logs there are 6 other Canadian cars: (2)  CP 'miniboxs', (1) CN 40' steel underframe 9' IH with a 6' door [howe truss?], (2) CN 40' Postwar AAR and (1) CN '37 AAR (out of a total 750 cars logged).
 
Regards,
 
Mike Aufderheide 


________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 3:41 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: True Line new "Fowler" pictures


 
Peter

The gaps in the boards look worse (proportionally) on small cars
http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7168/6516165381_0ba04d2327_z.jpg

Did these cars come to the US much? For their huge numbers I
can't recall any photos of them south of the border in the 1940's
and later.

Tim O'Connor

Passing on a message I rec'd tonight....

"True Line has put up pictures of the Fowler boxcars. Looks like
they made some major improvements over the first run.

http://www.truelinetrains.ca/freight-cars/fowler-36-box-and-stock-cars "

My comment: I hope they finally do the CN "X" frame doors found on
most CN Fowler's in the fifties. Unfortunately all the bickering
modellers do probably has TLT gun-shy resulting in these most common
of CN stock cars not being done.

As for the new cars, TLT, they look pretty good although they do have
the all too common "too wide a gap" between boards.. Thanks to TLT
for the improvements in these cars from the previous runs.

Peter Bowers

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CDN-frt-cars-n-ops/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor asked:
"Did these cars come to the US much? For their huge numbers I
can't recall any photos of them south of the border in the 1940's
and later."

Data that I've tabulated from the Premo Collection of Rutland Shifting Lists
show 204 "Fowler"/"Dominion" cars of all variations out of 359 total CN
boxcars.  Based on this small sample size, the answer is "yes".


Ben Hom


Armand Premo
 

How large does a sample have to be for you to consider it significant?These cars were frequently seen In New England on the Central Vermont- and Rutland---Armand Premo- Original Message -----
From: Benjamin Hom
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: True Line new "Fowler" pictures



Tim O'Connor asked:
"Did these cars come to the US much? For their huge numbers I
can't recall any photos of them south of the border in the 1940's
and later."

Data that I've tabulated from the Premo Collection of Rutland Shifting Lists
show 204 "Fowler"/"Dominion" cars of all variations out of 359 total CN
boxcars. Based on this small sample size, the answer is "yes".

Ben Hom


Tim O'Connor
 

Armand

Considering CV and Rutland interchanged directly with Canadian roads, and
that the Canadian roads directly operated some trackage in New England...
it's significant for modelers of New England and upstate New York railroads.
Ben's data on CN cars bears that out. The yard in St Johnsbury VT was often
jammed with Canadian cars.

I continue to consider them too rare to be of interest for a late 1950's
SP modeler, just as Tony Thompson (an SP modeler) has said he's not
interested in SP's 65 foot gondolas because they represented only a tiny
fraction of the SP freight car fleet. Richard says he has a photo of one
in San Diego. Well, if you were in San Diego in the 1950's and you saw a
Canadian Fowler, wouldn't you take its picture? Of course you would!

The NYC USRA steel cars on the other hand, are nearly as important as PRR
X29's and B&O M-26's so those are something I do want to have.

Tim O'Connor

How large does a sample have to be for you to consider it significant? Thes
cars were frequently seen In New England on the Central Vermont- and Rutland
---Armand Premo-


mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor speculates:

"Well, if you were in San Diego in the 1950's and you saw a
Canadian Fowler, wouldn't you take its picture? Of course you would!"
I'm not so sure of that. If, of course, you were interested in photos of rolling stock, yes, but how many rolling stock photographers were hanging around in San Diego in the 50's? OTOH, there were relatively speaking, a large number of guys shooting shots of steam locos...although, of course, most were camping out at the west end of Cheyenne's yard. For example, the book The Big Boy Portraits has a shot of a Canadian Pacific box car in Laramie but, of course, the real subject of the photo was a Big Boy.

Mike Brock


Tim O'Connor
 

Why were people in Laramie taking pictures of hamburgers??
I mean, I like a good burger as much as the next guy, but why
waste expensive Kodachrome on them?

http://www.pullmanproject.com/BigBoy.jpg

Tim O'

Tim O'Connor speculates:

"Well, if you were in San Diego in the 1950's and you saw a
Canadian Fowler, wouldn't you take its picture? Of course you would!"
I'm not so sure of that. If, of course, you were interested in photos of
rolling stock, yes, but how many rolling stock photographers were hanging
around in San Diego in the 50's? OTOH, there were relatively speaking, a
large number of guys shooting shots of steam locos...although, of course,
most were camping out at the west end of Cheyenne's yard. For example, the
book The Big Boy Portraits has a shot of a Canadian Pacific box car in
Laramie but, of course, the real subject of the photo was a Big Boy.

Mike Brock


mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim, you say:


Why were people in Laramie taking pictures of hamburgers??
I mean, I like a good burger as much as the next guy, but why
waste expensive Kodachrome on them?
Well, you can never tell about what folks in Laramie might do. Heck, you can't even tell what someone that models Laramie might do, Anyhow...got to go, I'm hungry...

Mike Brock


Eric Hansmann
 

Tim,

Here are a couple of circa 1925 images taken along the Wheeling & Lake Erie in Canton, Ohio. These images are from the W&LE archives in the Michael Schwartz Library of Cleveland State University Library in Cleveland, Ohio. Two Canadian Pacific Fowler box cars and an ERIE double-sheathed box car with an indestructible-type of end are spotted along a siding just north of the W&LE depot. Click on the images for the full version.

This view looks north:
http://www.hansmanns.org/images/canton_industry_1.JPG

This view is pointed south:
http://www.hansmanns.org/images/canton_industry_2.JPG

Does anyone have in-service numbers for the CP and CN Fower fleet in the mid-1950s? The Westerfield Models site has details that note 75,000 of the six-foot wide door were built, while the Canadian Pacific built 33,000 of the five-foot wide door versions. These numbers do not include stock cars or 40-foot versions of the car design.

Eric




Eric Hansmann
New Paltz, NY

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Did these cars come to the US much? For their huge numbers I
can't recall any photos of them south of the border in the 1940's
and later.

Tim O'Connor


Armand Premo
 

Tim,The QC brought many Canadian cars into Newport ,Vermont.interchanging with the B&M at Wells River and CV at White River Jct.The CP also interchanged with the CV at Richford and the NJ/D&H,GT( CN CV) and Rutland at Rouses Point ,NY.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 9:37 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: True Line new "Fowler" pictures



Armand

Considering CV and Rutland interchanged directly with Canadian roads, and
that the Canadian roads directly operated some trackage in New England...
it's significant for modelers of New England and upstate New York railroads.
Ben's data on CN cars bears that out. The yard in St Johnsbury VT was often
jammed with Canadian cars.

I continue to consider them too rare to be of interest for a late 1950's
SP modeler, just as Tony Thompson (an SP modeler) has said he's not
interested in SP's 65 foot gondolas because they represented only a tiny
fraction of the SP freight car fleet. Richard says he has a photo of one
in San Diego. Well, if you were in San Diego in the 1950's and you saw a
Canadian Fowler, wouldn't you take its picture? Of course you would!

The NYC USRA steel cars on the other hand, are nearly as important as PRR
X29's and B&O M-26's so those are something I do want to have.

Tim O'Connor

>How large does a sample have to be for you to consider it significant? Thes
>cars were frequently seen In New England on the Central Vermont- and Rutland
>---Armand Premo-


Brian Ehni <behni@...>
 

Been there; interesting place. Amazing how, even after all this time, you
can still see the outlines of the wye, turntable pit, and other features.
There's even some kind of Boeing electrical junction box set in the ground
(which obviously post dates the original site of Sherman), but is way out of
place!


Thanks!
--

Brian P. Ehni

From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 23:15:44 -0500
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: True Line new "Fowler" pictures







Why were people in Laramie taking pictures of hamburgers??
I mean, I like a good burger as much as the next guy, but why
waste expensive Kodachrome on them?

http://www.pullmanproject.com/BigBoy.jpg

Tim O'

Tim O'Connor speculates:

"Well, if you were in San Diego in the 1950's and you saw a
Canadian Fowler, wouldn't you take its picture? Of course you would!"
I'm not so sure of that. If, of course, you were interested in photos of
rolling stock, yes, but how many rolling stock photographers were hanging
around in San Diego in the 50's? OTOH, there were relatively speaking, a
large number of guys shooting shots of steam locos...although, of course,
most were camping out at the west end of Cheyenne's yard. For example, the
book The Big Boy Portraits has a shot of a Canadian Pacific box car in
Laramie but, of course, the real subject of the photo was a Big Boy.

Mike Brock








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Armand Premo
 

Tim,I neglected to mention that the CP also interchanged with the MEC and St J&LC at St Johnsbury ,Vt.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 9:37 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: True Line new "Fowler" pictures



Armand

Considering CV and Rutland interchanged directly with Canadian roads, and
that the Canadian roads directly operated some trackage in New England...
it's significant for modelers of New England and upstate New York railroads.
Ben's data on CN cars bears that out. The yard in St Johnsbury VT was often
jammed with Canadian cars.

I continue to consider them too rare to be of interest for a late 1950's
SP modeler, just as Tony Thompson (an SP modeler) has said he's not
interested in SP's 65 foot gondolas because they represented only a tiny
fraction of the SP freight car fleet. Richard says he has a photo of one
in San Diego. Well, if you were in San Diego in the 1950's and you saw a
Canadian Fowler, wouldn't you take its picture? Of course you would!

The NYC USRA steel cars on the other hand, are nearly as important as PRR
X29's and B&O M-26's so those are something I do want to have.

Tim O'Connor

>How large does a sample have to be for you to consider it significant? Thes
>cars were frequently seen In New England on the Central Vermont- and Rutland
>---Armand Premo-


Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks Armand, yes I know. (I live in New England, railfanned every
location you mentioned.) Without a doubt there's a lot of commerce and
traffic between Canada and the US in this region. But as I said for my
time period, late 1950's, 36' Fowlers in the western US were not a
common sight -- by then there were large fleets of 40' steel cars on
both sides of the border. If I really want one I'll probably go for
a Westerfield model.

Tim O'Connor


Tim, I neglected to mention that the CP also interchanged with the
MEC and StJ&LC at St Johnsbury, Vt. Armand Premo


Bruce Smith
 

Tim O'Connor asked:
>>"Did these cars come to the US much? For their huge numbers I
>>can't recall any photos of them south of the border in the 1940's
>>and later."

Ben Hom replied
Data that I've tabulated from the Premo Collection of Rutland Shifting
Lists
show 204 "Fowler"/"Dominion" cars of all variations out of 359 total CN
boxcars. Based on this small sample size, the answer is "yes".
This discussion made me smile. The bottom line is that these Canadian
cars did not follow the N-G (Nelson-Gilbert) model. Since their usage
was dictate by customs rules, these cars did not participate in the US
pool as free rollers, but rather usually needed to have a Canada-US or
US-Canada routing. As a consequence they DO follow the proximity rule,
where you would expect higher numbers of these cars to be present in
close proximity to Canada and fewer the further you got away. So, for
me, modeling the PRR, a small number of the boxcars is definitely in
order (and could easily represent cars interchanged at Buffalo NY, for
example). Were I to model the ACL, I might be harder pressed to justify
more than one or two (perhaps in newsprint service?). Of course, the
stock cars are a different kettle of fish and would be very unlikely to
be seen in the US (except perhaps on CN/CP aligned roads?).

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Brian Ehni <behni@...>
 

Many railroads (such as the Rock Island) had Fowler clones, however. These
may be a stand-in for the clones.


Thanks!
--

Brian P. Ehni

From: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:24:17 -0600
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: True Line new "Fowler" pictures






Tim O'Connor asked:
>>"Did these cars come to the US much? For their huge numbers I
>>can't recall any photos of them south of the border in the 1940's
>>and later."

Ben Hom replied
Data that I've tabulated from the Premo Collection of Rutland Shifting
Lists
show 204 "Fowler"/"Dominion" cars of all variations out of 359 total CN
boxcars. Based on this small sample size, the answer is "yes".
This discussion made me smile. The bottom line is that these Canadian
cars did not follow the N-G (Nelson-Gilbert) model. Since their usage
was dictate by customs rules, these cars did not participate in the US
pool as free rollers, but rather usually needed to have a Canada-US or
US-Canada routing. As a consequence they DO follow the proximity rule,
where you would expect higher numbers of these cars to be present in
close proximity to Canada and fewer the further you got away. So, for
me, modeling the PRR, a small number of the boxcars is definitely in
order (and could easily represent cars interchanged at Buffalo NY, for
example). Were I to model the ACL, I might be harder pressed to justify
more than one or two (perhaps in newsprint service?). Of course, the
stock cars are a different kettle of fish and would be very unlikely to
be seen in the US (except perhaps on CN/CP aligned roads?).

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Bruce Smith wrote:





Of course, the stock cars are a different kettle of fish . . .







Huh??





Schuyler





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Bruce Smith
 

I wrote:
Of course, the stock cars are a different kettle of fish . . .
Schuyler Larrabee replied with an erudite:
Huh??
What, you didn't like the mixed metaphor? <G> Or were you confused
about why the stock cars would be different? As to the latter, first,
they would have an even higher percentage of on-line usage than the
boxcars and second, with only a limited set of commodities, they would
be less likely to travel to the US.

I would be curious to know if Canadian stock cars did travel to the US
with non-stock loads, such as lumber?

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor asked:
"Did these cars come to the US much? For their huge numbers I
can't recall any photos of them south of the border in the 1940's
and later."

I replied:
"Data that I've tabulated from the Premo Collection of Rutland Shifting
Lists show 204 "Fowler"/"Dominion" cars of all variations out of 359 total CN
boxcars. Based on this small sample size, the answer is "yes"."

Bruce Smith wrote:
"This discussion made me smile. The bottom line is that these Canadian
cars did not follow the N-G (Nelson-Gilbert) model. Since their usage
was dictate by customs rules, these cars did not participate in the US
pool as free rollers, but rather usually needed to have a Canada-US or
US-Canada routing. As a consequence they DO follow the proximity rule,
where you would expect higher numbers of these cars to be present in
close proximity to Canada and fewer the further you got away."

Never said otherwise - just anwering the mail.  As shown above, Tim's question
was "Did these cars come to the US much?"  Other than that, I certainly agree
with your argument regarding proximity - Canadian Fowler/Dominion mean less to
me for my LIRR modules, but they mean far more to me regarding the NEB&W, where
we need lots of them.


Ben Hom


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 29, 2011, at 7:24 AM, Bruce F. Smith wrote:
....Of course, the
stock cars are a different kettle of fish and would be very
unlikely to
be seen in the US (except perhaps on CN/CP aligned roads?).
Well, Bruce, there exists a conductor's train sheet from the '50s
showing a CN 36' stock car eastbound on a Santa Fe train in the heart
of Texas. Exceptional, I'll grant. Still....


Richard Hendrickson


O Fenton Wells
 

This is probably a dumb question but how close are these to the NC&St.L
cars?
Fenton Wells

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

**


Tim O'Connor asked:
"Did these cars come to the US much? For their huge numbers I
can't recall any photos of them south of the border in the 1940's
and later."
Ben Hom replied
Data that I've tabulated from the Premo Collection of Rutland Shifting
Lists
show 204 "Fowler"/"Dominion" cars of all variations out of 359 total CN
boxcars. Based on this small sample size, the answer is "yes".
This discussion made me smile. The bottom line is that these Canadian
cars did not follow the N-G (Nelson-Gilbert) model. Since their usage
was dictate by customs rules, these cars did not participate in the US
pool as free rollers, but rather usually needed to have a Canada-US or
US-Canada routing. As a consequence they DO follow the proximity rule,
where you would expect higher numbers of these cars to be present in
close proximity to Canada and fewer the further you got away. So, for
me, modeling the PRR, a small number of the boxcars is definitely in
order (and could easily represent cars interchanged at Buffalo NY, for
example). Were I to model the ACL, I might be harder pressed to justify
more than one or two (perhaps in newsprint service?). Of course, the
stock cars are a different kettle of fish and would be very unlikely to
be seen in the US (except perhaps on CN/CP aligned roads?).

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL



--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


Don <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Brian Ehni <behni@...> wrote:

Many railroads (such as the Rock Island) had Fowler clones, however.
These may be a stand-in for the clones.

I think not, Brian, unless you can find R.I. and DRG&W "clones" that were only 36 ft. in length! Erie, Susquehanna and NC&StL are antoher matter as already noted.

Cordially, Don Valentine