SP hog fuel car


tomedill@frontier.com
 

Am looking for a good photo or two plus corresponding number for Southern Pacific hog fuel cars built using old F-50-2,3 flat cars. These were 10' high wood racks with cross bracing on the lower portion built in the 1940's. Thanks so much, Tom Dill


john.allyn@...
 

At the risk of sounding flip and/or inviting snark , what is "hog fuel"? 


John B. Allyn

----- Original Message -----
From: "consol2579" <tomedill@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 11:02:05 AM
Subject: [STMFC] SP hog fuel car

 




Am looking for a good photo or two plus corresponding number for Southern Pacific hog fuel cars built using old F-50-2,3 flat cars. These were 10' high wood racks with cross bracing on the lower portion built in the 1940's. Thanks so much, Tom Dill


Charles Morrill
 

I have a similar question in that I have a F-50-4 flat car (Gilmaur kit) that I'm considering adding wood racks to for use as a hog fuel car.

BTW hog fuel is wood chips/sawdust.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "consol2579" <tomedill@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: [STMFC] SP hog fuel car


Am looking for a good photo or two plus corresponding number for Southern Pacific hog fuel cars built using old F-50-2,3 flat cars. These were 10' high wood racks with cross bracing on the lower portion built in the 1940's. Thanks so much, Tom Dill


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

John Allyn wrote:
At the risk of sounding flip and/or inviting snark , what is "hog fuel"?
Standard SP term for wood chips. Also widely used in the lumber industry.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


water.kresse@...
 

Also, THANK YOU!!!!!  Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 2:23:38 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] SP hog fuel car

John Allyn wrote:
At the risk of sounding flip and/or inviting snark , what is "hog  
fuel"?
    Standard SP term for wood chips. Also widely used in the lumber  
industry.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


John H <sprinthag@...>
 

You mean it's NOT motorcycle gas????

John Hagen

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

John Allyn wrote:
At the risk of sounding flip and/or inviting snark , what is "hog
fuel"?
Standard SP term for wood chips. Also widely used in the lumber
industry.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


tomedill@frontier.com
 

Hog fuel was wood products waste, usually bark, ends and other wood scrape, generally larger than what later was termed wood chips. Hog fuel was used in institutions, factories and even home heating furnaces in the Northwest.
Tom Dill
tomedill@...


Jim Sabol
 

This is a small thing but since most people on this list are careful about accuracy (I was going to say “fanatic”), the completely correct term is “hogged fuel.” At a sawmill much undesirable bark is removed from the log prior to sawing and is either blasted off by powerful jets of water on the jackslip or is bumped and scraped off by a machine called a hogger or hogging machine. The resultant scraps of bark, useful for fuel or footing, thus are hogged fuel. It’s somewhat like duct tape. Lots of people don’t hear the the ‘t’ in that word, and lots of people don’t hear the ‘ed’ in hogged fuel. Then there’s the difference between ‘complimentary’ and ‘complementary’ in forty years of the otherwise brilliant Railroad Model Craftsman articles. Jim here.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Jim Sabol wrote:
This is a small thing but since most people on this list are careful
about accuracy (I was going to say “fanatic”), the completely
correct term is “hogged fuel.” At a sawmill much undesirable bark
is removed from the log prior to sawing and is either blasted off by
powerful jets of water on the jackslip or is bumped and scraped off
by a machine called a hogger or hogging machine. The resultant
scraps of bark, useful for fuel or footing, thus are hogged fuel.
It’s somewhat like duct tape. Lots of people don’t hear the the ‘t’ in that word, and lots of people don’t hear the ‘ed’ in hogged
fuel. Then there’s the difference between ‘complimentary’ and
‘complementary’ in forty years of the otherwise brilliant Railroad
Model Craftsman articles. Jim here.
No argument with this as far as it goes, but wood chipper
machines for decades in sawmills have been called "hogs" and their
product "hog fuel." They are by means restricted to bark, and the
cargo carried in SP "hog fuel" cars was certainly not all bark. This
goes back to the days that much hog fuel was burned in conical structures at sawmills when it could not be sold.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


spsalso
 

From an on-line dictionary:

"To shred (waste wood, for example) by machine."

I'll modify that by noting that I do some work at a factory that has machines that are referred to as "hoggers". They turn square wood into largish dowels (about 1 1/2"). The purpose of these machines is not to shred (as implied by the definition), but they do shred as they work. I have heard the term most of my working life, and it means to quickly remove mass quantities. It applies to both wood and metal (and more, I suppose).


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Jim Sabol
 

My point exactly. People, even in the industry call the rig a hog machine because they don’t hear the ‘ed.’ Calling the hogged fuel hog fuel even on the SP doesn’t make hogged fuel hog fuel any more than hardware store employees calling duct tape duck tape makes duct tape duck tape. Jim here.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Greg Martin
 

hogged fuel


_McGraw-Hill Science & Technology Dictionary:_
(http://www.answers.com/library/Sci%2DTech%20Dictionary-cid-10331700)
hogged fuel



_Home_ (http://www.answers.com/) > _Library_
(http://www.answers.com/main/what_content.jsp) > _Science_ (http://www.answers.com/main/science.jsp) >
_Sci-Tech Dictionary_
(http://www.answers.com/library/Sci%2DTech+Dictionary-cid-10331700)

(′hägd ¦fyül)
(materials) Sawmill refuse that has been fed through a disintegrator, or
hog, by which the various sizes and forms are reduced to a practically
uniform size of chips or shreds.




Terms like this over the years seem to get corrupted and Hog Fuel is one
case where the term certainly falls into this category. I have heard it both
ways and I try to use only the term Hogged fuel, but try not to correct
anyone that uses hog fuel, its not worth the explanation.

The hoggings are often screened for size in modern mills as they size of
chip from dust to fuel are separated for complete different resources. There
is not much as paper mill can do with fuel or dust.

BTW a "hog" is a hammer mill, and you'll often see the "hogged" (non bark
material) leave a hog or a hammer mill to be run through a "clipper" where
the material is hammered or hogged again, hopefully even enough in size to
make a salable chip to a paper mill, dust is not what a paper mill is after.


A similar term that is terribly corrupted is the term Verge Rafter,
corrupted to Varge Raft and Barge Rafter often in today's construction
terminology.

In Southern California in today's construction world you can have new
sheeting put on your roof even though you might have ask to have new SHEATHING
put on your roof.

All corrupted terms.

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

In a message dated 1/21/2012 11:43:35 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jimsabol@... writes:




My point exactly. People, even in the industry call the rig a hog machine
because they don’t hear the ‘ed.’ Calling the hogged fuel hog fuel even on
the SP doesn’t make hogged fuel hog fuel any more than hardware store
employees calling duct tape duck tape makes duct tape duck tape. Jim here.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

Tony, I'm sure I've seen official SP documents somewhere that used
the term hog fuel, but I just looked up SP 52490, a rebuilt A-50-6
(de-roofed with added small side-doors) and it is listed in the 1955
ORER simply as a "wood chip" car. I have a 1956 photo of 52490 and
it's loaded with can only be hogged fuel -- shredded bits of wood.
It looks like the stuff people put around their trees and flower beds.

I also have a 1957 shot of MILW 273221, a rebuilt 50 foot single sheathed
box car. This one has a roof with numerous hatches, no main doors, and
a line of dump doors along the bottom of the sides. MILW had hundreds
of these puppies in 1959!! They are also listed as "wood chip" cars.

Sigh. I wish Martin and Al had been more interested in the 1950's to
early 60's. So MANY interesting rebuilds back then!

Tim O'Connor



No argument with this as far as it goes, but wood chipper
machines for decades in sawmills have been called "hogs" and their
product "hog fuel." They are by means restricted to bark, and the
cargo carried in SP "hog fuel" cars was certainly not all bark. This
goes back to the days that much hog fuel was burned in conical
structures at sawmills when it could not be sold.
Tony Thompson


Kent Sullivan <kent@...>
 

Jim, good point. The misunderstanding of the name must be pretty widespread (or was widespread)... The NP train sheet analysis I did for several months in 1953-7 for the Tacoma Division North Branches made multiple references to cars loaded with this material (often in a derailment!), and it was always "hog fuel". No dictionary for the dispatchers to consult for that one, I guess!

--Kent

--- In STMFC@..., "Jim Sabol" <jimsabol@...> wrote:

My point exactly. People, even in the industry call the rig a hog
machine because they don't hear the "ed". Calling the hogged fuel
hog fuel even on the SP doesn't make hogged fuel hog fuel any more
than hardware store employees calling duct tape duck tape makes duct
tape duck tape. Jim here.


tomedill@frontier.com
 

well, there has been a fair amount of info on the "hogged fuel" but little on the cars, which was the concern. guess the only photos out there are the few that I have. thanks, Tom Dill
Tom Dill
tomedill@...


mopacfirst
 

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I'll also note that gross and not very accurate machining of castings or steel forgings, to remove lots of metal before getting down to accurate machining, is called 'hogging out'.

Ron Merrick

--- In STMFC@..., "spsalso" <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:

From an on-line dictionary:

"To shred (waste wood, for example) by machine."

I'll modify that by noting that I do some work at a factory that has machines that are referred to as "hoggers". They turn square wood into largish dowels (about 1 1/2"). The purpose of these machines is not to shred (as implied by the definition), but they do shred as they work. I have heard the term most of my working life, and it means to quickly remove mass quantities. It applies to both wood and metal (and more, I suppose).


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Lee Thwaits <leethwaits@...>
 

Jim, duct tape was originally called duck tape because it shed water. /there is a brand called "Duck Tape".
Lee


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tony, I'm sure I've seen official SP documents somewhere that used the term hog fuel, but I just looked up SP 52490, a rebuilt A-50-6
(de-roofed with added small side-doors) and it is listed in the 1955 ORER simply as a "wood chip" car.
Well, as it happens, Tim (of interest to me because I model 1953) the 1953 ORER continues the SP practice of MANY years and still calls them "hog fuel" cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Jim Sabol
 

Duct tape was developed in 1942 by a subsidiary of Johnson and Johnson for the military to seal ammo cases against moisture. G.I.s soon discovered that it could be used for just about anything—except, ironically, ducts where it could melt and catch fire—including aircraft dings and, much later, even helicopter blades that were out of balance. A later manufacturer of duct tape was the Duck Products Corp which called their brand, naturally, “Duck” tape. Thus, duct tape came to be called by some persons duck tape both because of mispronunciation and because of the Duck Products company which labeled their duct tape, naturally, Duck Tape. But in 1942 there was only duct tape. In 2012 neither duck tape nor duct tape is exclusively correct; it’s just interesting to know a little history for whatever spelling one favors. Jim here.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Then it’s a matter of capitalization.



Duck Products Corporation made duct tape, but called it Duck Tape. I would guess that, say, Monsanto might make duct tape, but not Duck tape. Therefore, to properly call something Duck Tape, you would have to know that it was manufactured by Duck Products Corp, and it wouldn’t have to be duct tape to be called that.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Jim Sabol
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 11:23 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: SP hog fuel car





Duct tape was developed in 1942 by a subsidiary of Johnson and Johnson for the military to seal ammo cases against moisture. G.I.s soon discovered that it could be used for just about anything—except, ironically, ducts where it could melt and catch fire—including aircraft dings and, much later, even helicopter blades that were out of balance. A later manufacturer of duct tape was the Duck Products Corp which called their brand, naturally, “Duck” tape. Thus, duct tape came to be called by some persons duck tape both because of mispronunciation and because of the Duck Products company which labeled their duct tape, naturally, Duck Tape. But in 1942 there was only duct tape. In 2012 neither duck tape nor duct tape is exclusively correct; it’s just interesting to know a little history for whatever spelling one favors. Jim here.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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