Cars Made OK on the C&S


Richard Townsend
 

Recently I was at the Colorado Railroad Museum and ran across a series of ledgers from the mid to late 1950's titled "Cars Made OK For Sugar, Feldspar, Plaster, Etc., On Repair Track." These were from the Colorado & Southern Ry. I copied several pages including and surrounding the period of interest to me (late 1958). I assume (but don't know for sure) that these cars were "made OK" by ensuring that they didn't leak (i.e., were watertight) and didn't have anything on the interior that would tear the bags used for transporting, for example, sugar. I have transcribed the copies and will post them to the files. On the pages I copied there are 312 cars listed. They came from 56 different railroads as shown below. I was surprised to see how many were from D&H (5), IC (9), L&N (7), N&W (7), and SOU (16). I offer this up just as something interesting, and not to get into a Gilbert-Nelson discussion.






AA
1

ACL
2

ACY
1

ATSF
14

B&M
2

C&O
3

C&S
63

CB&Q
24

CG
2

CNW
12

CP
1

CRI&P
4

D&H
5

D&M
1

D&RGW
2

DL&W
2

DSS&A
1

Erie
3

FW&D
5

GM&O
2

GN
6

GTW
1

IC
9

KCS
3

L&A
1

L&N
7

LV
1

M&StL
1

MEC
1

MILW
10

MKT
2

MNS
1

MON
1

MP
5

N&W
7

NKP
1

NP
12

NS
1

NYC
9

P&LE
4

PRR
8

RDG
1

SAL
3

SLSF
10

SOO
1

SOU
16

SP
16

SP&S
3

SSW
1

T&NO
4

TP
1

UP
9

WAB
2

WM
2

WofA
1

WP
1





Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Rich, did the information include the car numbers?



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
richtownsend@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 6:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Cars Made OK on the C&S






Recently I was at the Colorado Railroad Museum and ran across a series of
ledgers from the mid to late 1950's titled "Cars Made OK For Sugar,
Feldspar, Plaster, Etc., On Repair Track." These were from the Colorado &
Southern Ry. I copied several pages including and surrounding the period of
interest to me (late 1958). I assume (but don't know for sure) that these
cars were "made OK" by ensuring that they didn't leak (i.e., were
watertight) and didn't have anything on the interior that would tear the
bags used for transporting, for example, sugar. I have transcribed the
copies and will post them to the files. On the pages I copied there are 312
cars listed. They came from 56 different railroads as shown below. I was
surprised to see how many were from D&H (5), IC (9), L&N (7), N&W (7), and
SOU (16). I offer this up just as something interesting, and not to get into
a Gilbert-Nelson discussion.


AA
1

ACL
2

ACY
1

ATSF
14

B&M
2

C&O
3

C&S
63

CB&Q
24

CG
2

CNW
12

CP
1

CRI&P
4

D&H
5

D&M
1

D&RGW
2

DL&W
2

DSS&A
1

Erie
3

FW&D
5

GM&O
2

GN
6

GTW
1

IC
9

KCS
3

L&A
1

L&N
7

LV
1

M&StL
1

MEC
1

MILW
10

MKT
2

MNS
1

MON
1

MP
5

N&W
7

NKP
1

NP
12

NS
1

NYC
9

P&LE
4

PRR
8

RDG
1

SAL
3

SLSF
10

SOO
1

SOU
16

SP
16

SP&S
3

SSW
1

T&NO
4

TP
1

UP
9

WAB
2

WM
2

WofA
1

WP
1

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon










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Richard Townsend
 

Yes. They are shown in the file I posted to the group: "Cars Made Ready"





Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2012 6:50 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Cars Made OK on the C&S




Rich, did the information include the car numbers?

Schuyler

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
richtownsend@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 6:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Cars Made OK on the C&S

Recently I was at the Colorado Railroad Museum and ran across a series of
ledgers from the mid to late 1950's titled "Cars Made OK For Sugar,
Feldspar, Plaster, Etc., On Repair Track." These were from the Colorado &
Southern Ry. I copied several pages including and surrounding the period of
interest to me (late 1958). I assume (but don't know for sure) that these
cars were "made OK" by ensuring that they didn't leak (i.e., were
watertight) and didn't have anything on the interior that would tear the
bags used for transporting, for example, sugar. I have transcribed the
copies and will post them to the files. On the pages I copied there are 312
cars listed. They came from 56 different railroads as shown below. I was
surprised to see how many were from D&H (5), IC (9), L&N (7), N&W (7), and
SOU (16). I offer this up just as something interesting, and not to get into
a Gilbert-Nelson discussion.

AA
1

ACL
2

ACY
1

ATSF
14

B&M
2

C&O
3

C&S
63

CB&Q
24

CG
2

CNW
12

CP
1

CRI&P
4

D&H
5

D&M
1

D&RGW
2

DL&W
2

DSS&A
1

Erie
3

FW&D
5

GM&O
2

GN
6

GTW
1

IC
9

KCS
3

L&A
1

L&N
7

LV
1

M&StL
1

MEC
1

MILW
10

MKT
2

MNS
1

MON
1

MP
5

N&W
7

NKP
1

NP
12

NS
1

NYC
9

P&LE
4

PRR
8

RDG
1

SAL
3

SLSF
10

SOO
1

SOU
16

SP
16

SP&S
3

SSW
1

T&NO
4

TP
1

UP
9

WAB
2

WM
2

WofA
1

WP
1

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


arved_grass
 

I am even more surprised in the relatively small portion of "home road" cars. Approx. 1/5 of all cars processed.

Arved G. Grass
Fleming Island, Florida

--- In STMFC@..., richtownsend@... wrote:


Recently I was at the Colorado Railroad Museum and ran across a series of ledgers from the mid to late 1950's titled "Cars Made OK For Sugar, Feldspar, Plaster, Etc., On Repair Track." These were from the Colorado & Southern Ry. I copied several pages including and surrounding the period of interest to me (late 1958). I assume (but don't know for sure) that these cars were "made OK" by ensuring that they didn't leak (i.e., were watertight) and didn't have anything on the interior that would tear the bags used for transporting, for example, sugar. I have transcribed the copies and will post them to the files. On the pages I copied there are 312 cars listed. They came from 56 different railroads as shown below. I was surprised to see how many were from D&H (5), IC (9), L&N (7), N&W (7), and SOU (16). I offer this up just as something interesting, and not to get into a Gilbert-Nelson discussion.
...
C&S
63
...
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon




dmamfahr <mamfahr@...>
 

I am even more surprised in the relatively small portion of "home road" cars. Approx. 1/5 of all cars processed.
Hello all,

From what I've seen from western RRs in that era, 20% is more or less normal. As an example, Union Pacific train lists from Wyoming (1956) that I reviewed showed that 18.6% of all plain boxcars were home road cars.

Take care,

Mark


Tom Vanwormer
 

I suspect this list tells more about the state of western road box cars
at the time to be available for this "high" class of freight service.
The western road equipment was taking a very heavy beating from the
loading requirements of the time.

Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

Arved wrote:



I am even more surprised in the relatively small portion of "home
road" cars. Approx. 1/5 of all cars processed.

Arved G. Grass
Fleming Island, Florida

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>,
richtownsend@... wrote:


Recently I was at the Colorado Railroad Museum and ran across a
series of ledgers from the mid to late 1950's titled "Cars Made OK For
Sugar, Feldspar, Plaster, Etc., On Repair Track." These were from the
Colorado & Southern Ry. I copied several pages including and
surrounding the period of interest to me (late 1958). I assume (but
don't know for sure) that these cars were "made OK" by ensuring that
they didn't leak (i.e., were watertight) and didn't have anything on
the interior that would tear the bags used for transporting, for
example, sugar. I have transcribed the copies and will post them to
the files. On the pages I copied there are 312 cars listed. They came
from 56 different railroads as shown below. I was surprised to see how
many were from D&H (5), IC (9), L&N (7), N&W (7), and SOU (16). I
offer this up just as something interesting, and not to get into a
Gilbert-Nelson discussion.
...
C&S
63
...
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
 

Hi All,

I am curious what the percentage of home road cars were on the lines of
the eastern coal carriers such as the LV, DL&W, Erie, NYO&W, CNJ, and RDG.
Does anyone have any idea? These coal carriers had large fleet of coal
gons and hoppers.

Thank you for your help in advance.

Joel Holmes

I am even more surprised in the relatively small portion of "home road"
cars. Approx. 1/5 of all cars processed.
Hello all,

From what I've seen from western RRs in that era, 20% is more or less
normal. As an example, Union Pacific train lists from Wyoming (1956) that
I reviewed showed that 18.6% of all plain boxcars were home road cars.

Take care,

Mark


Bruce Smith
 

Joel,

It is VERY important to differentiate between "home road cars" on the home road and home road boxcars... On the PRR the former was around 50% for most of the modern steam era and while we do not have a precise figure for the latter (boxcars), that number is closer to 20-25%, exactly what was seen in the C&S figures. Just another piece of the puzzle that supports the national fleet model ;^)

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Jan 25, 2012, at 1:27 PM, Joel Holmes wrote:

Hi All,

I am curious what the percentage of home road cars were on the lines of
the eastern coal carriers such as the LV, DL&W, Erie, NYO&W, CNJ, and RDG.
Does anyone have any idea? These coal carriers had large fleet of coal
gons and hoppers.

Thank you for your help in advance.

Joel Holmes

I am even more surprised in the relatively small portion of "home road"
cars. Approx. 1/5 of all cars processed.
Hello all,

From what I've seen from western RRs in that era, 20% is more or less
normal. As an example, Union Pacific train lists from Wyoming (1956) that
I reviewed showed that 18.6% of all plain boxcars were home road cars.

Take care,

Mark



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
It is VERY important to differentiate between "home road cars" on the home road and home road boxcars... On the PRR the former was around 50% for most of the modern steam era and while we do not have a precise figure for the latter (boxcars), that number is closer to 20-25%, exactly what was seen in the C&S figures. Just another piece of the puzzle that supports the national fleet model ;^)
I agree with Bruce. In the conductor time book data I have for SP's Coast Line during 1948-1952, home road box cars were 29 percent, and T&NO box cars (closely allied, of course) another 7 percent, or a total of 36 percent of all BOX cars observed. But this particular conductor worked a lot of extra trains, especially reefer extras (empties one way, loads the other) in peak harvest season, and beet trains (again, empties and loads) in sugar beet harvest season. Those two car types dominate box cars, even though on the SP as a whole, the converse is true. Any given chunk of data needs to be viewed in context, as Bruce says.
I discussed those time book data and provided details of the data in a series of blog posts entitled "Modeling freight traffic: Coast Line, 1953," especially Parts 6, 7 and 8. Here is a link to Part 8, for anyone interested; it contains links to the two previous posts.

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2011/04/modeling-freight-traffic-coast-line.html

Tony Thompson
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937;
e-mail: thompson@...


Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
 

Hi Bruce,

Thank you for the information. I checked and I only have 23% of my box
cars are home road. As I had suspected, I need to increase my home road
box cars substantially. I model in the period of 1910 to 1940.

Joel

Joel,

It is VERY important to differentiate between "home road cars" on the home
road and home road boxcars... On the PRR the former was around 50% for
most of the modern steam era and while we do not have a precise figure for
the latter (boxcars), that number is closer to 20-25%, exactly what was
seen in the C&S figures. Just another piece of the puzzle that supports
the national fleet model ;^)

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Jan 25, 2012, at 1:27 PM, Joel Holmes wrote:

Hi All,

I am curious what the percentage of home road cars were on the lines of
the eastern coal carriers such as the LV, DL&W, Erie, NYO&W, CNJ, and
RDG.
Does anyone have any idea? These coal carriers had large fleet of coal
gons and hoppers.

Thank you for your help in advance.

Joel Holmes

I am even more surprised in the relatively small portion of "home
road"
cars. Approx. 1/5 of all cars processed.
Hello all,

From what I've seen from western RRs in that era, 20% is more or less
normal. As an example, Union Pacific train lists from Wyoming (1956)
that
I reviewed showed that 18.6% of all plain boxcars were home road cars.

Take care,

Mark



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Tim O'Connor
 

Joel, 23% sounds close to the perfect figure for most Class 1 railroads. During good
economic times the percentage is less, and during bad times it can be much higher.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Holmes" <lehighvalley@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 3:52:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Cars Made OK on the C&S

Hi Bruce,

Thank you for the information. I checked and I only have 23% of my box
cars are home road. As I had suspected, I need to increase my home road
box cars substantially. I model in the period of 1910 to 1940.

Joel


Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
 

Hi Tim,

I am working on about 20 to 25 home road cars and about 10 or so
connecting road cars. I do not have enough connecting road cars. I can
afford this because I scratch build and have tons of materials on hand.
Just need decals and trucks and some misc parts.

Joel


Joel, 23% sounds close to the perfect figure for most Class 1 railroads.
During good
economic times the percentage is less, and during bad times it can be much
higher.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Holmes" <lehighvalley@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 3:52:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Cars Made OK on the C&S

Hi Bruce,

Thank you for the information. I checked and I only have 23% of my box
cars are home road. As I had suspected, I need to increase my home road
box cars substantially. I model in the period of 1910 to 1940.

Joel


Bruce Smith
 

Joel,

So the reason you need more home road cars is not to increase the percentage above 23%, it is to keep it at about that number as you increase foreign road cars - whew, I was worried there <G>! I note though that you state you need to increase cars from "connecting roads". Consider that a good portion of this list feels that the connecting road percentage (of boxcars) should not necessarily be inflated (or at least not substantially) over their percentage in the national fleet. Thus, what you may want to consider is to expand your boxcar pool, with an eye towards the "signature cars" that were represented in the "national fleet". Note that the cars of connecting roads may appear at higher frequencies in specific trains, such as those handling transfers to and from the connecting road.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Jan 25, 2012, at 3:00 PM, Joel Holmes wrote:

Hi Tim,

I am working on about 20 to 25 home road cars and about 10 or so
connecting road cars. I do not have enough connecting road cars. I can
afford this because I scratch build and have tons of materials on hand.
Just need decals and trucks and some misc parts.

Joel


Joel, 23% sounds close to the perfect figure for most Class 1 railroads.
During good
economic times the percentage is less, and during bad times it can be much
higher.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Holmes" <lehighvalley@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 3:52:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Cars Made OK on the C&S

Hi Bruce,

Thank you for the information. I checked and I only have 23% of my box
cars are home road. As I had suspected, I need to increase my home road
box cars substantially. I model in the period of 1910 to 1940.

Joel



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
 

Hi Bruce,

Right now I have too few connecting road cars. That is the reason I need
to increase the connecting road cars.

Joel

Joel,

So the reason you need more home road cars is not to increase the
percentage above 23%, it is to keep it at about that number as you
increase foreign road cars - whew, I was worried there <G>! I note though
that you state you need to increase cars from "connecting roads".
Consider that a good portion of this list feels that the connecting road
percentage (of boxcars) should not necessarily be inflated (or at least
not substantially) over their percentage in the national fleet. Thus,
what you may want to consider is to expand your boxcar pool, with an eye
towards the "signature cars" that were represented in the "national
fleet". Note that the cars of connecting roads may appear at higher
frequencies in specific trains, such as those handling transfers to and
from the connecting road.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


On Jan 25, 2012, at 3:00 PM, Joel Holmes wrote:

Hi Tim,

I am working on about 20 to 25 home road cars and about 10 or so
connecting road cars. I do not have enough connecting road cars. I can
afford this because I scratch build and have tons of materials on hand.
Just need decals and trucks and some misc parts.

Joel


Joel, 23% sounds close to the perfect figure for most Class 1
railroads.
During good
economic times the percentage is less, and during bad times it can be
much
higher.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Holmes" <lehighvalley@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 3:52:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Cars Made OK on the C&S

Hi Bruce,

Thank you for the information. I checked and I only have 23% of my box
cars are home road. As I had suspected, I need to increase my home road
box cars substantially. I model in the period of 1910 to 1940.

Joel



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Bruce Smith
 

Joel,

What analysis do you base this "need" on?

Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

"Joel Holmes" <lehighvalley@...> 01/25/12 5:11 PM >>>
Hi Bruce,

Right now I have too few connecting road cars. That is the reason I need
to increase the connecting road cars.

Joel

Joel,

So the reason you need more home road cars is not to increase the
percentage above 23%, it is to keep it at about that number as you
increase foreign road cars - whew, I was worried there <G>! I note
though
that you state you need to increase cars from "connecting roads".
Consider that a good portion of this list feels that the connecting
road
percentage (of boxcars) should not necessarily be inflated (or at
least
not substantially) over their percentage in the national fleet. Thus,
what you may want to consider is to expand your boxcar pool, with an
eye
towards the "signature cars" that were represented in the "national
fleet". Note that the cars of connecting roads may appear at higher
frequencies in specific trains, such as those handling transfers to
and
from the connecting road.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


On Jan 25, 2012, at 3:00 PM, Joel Holmes wrote:

Hi Tim,

I am working on about 20 to 25 home road cars and about 10 or so
connecting road cars. I do not have enough connecting road cars. I
can
afford this because I scratch build and have tons of materials on
hand.
Just need decals and trucks and some misc parts.

Joel


Joel, 23% sounds close to the perfect figure for most Class 1
railroads.
During good
economic times the percentage is less, and during bad times it can
be
much
higher.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Holmes" <lehighvalley@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 3:52:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Cars Made OK on the C&S

Hi Bruce,

Thank you for the information. I checked and I only have 23% of my
box
cars are home road. As I had suspected, I need to increase my home
road
box cars substantially. I model in the period of 1910 to 1940.

Joel



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks!



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
richtownsend@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 11:53 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Cars Made OK on the C&S





Yes. They are shown in the file I posted to the group: "Cars Made Ready"

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...
<mailto:schuyler.larrabee%40verizon.net> >
To: STMFC <STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2012 6:50 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Cars Made OK on the C&S

Rich, did the information include the car numbers?

Schuyler

From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of
richtownsend@... <mailto:richtownsend%40netscape.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 6:00 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Cars Made OK on the C&S

Recently I was at the Colorado Railroad Museum and ran across a series of
ledgers from the mid to late 1950's titled "Cars Made OK For Sugar,
Feldspar, Plaster, Etc., On Repair Track." These were from the Colorado &
Southern Ry. I copied several pages including and surrounding the period of
interest to me (late 1958). I assume (but don't know for sure) that these
cars were "made OK" by ensuring that they didn't leak (i.e., were
watertight) and didn't have anything on the interior that would tear the
bags used for transporting, for example, sugar. I have transcribed the
copies and will post them to the files. On the pages I copied there are 312
cars listed. They came from 56 different railroads as shown below. I was
surprised to see how many were from D&H (5), IC (9), L&N (7), N&W (7), and
SOU (16). I offer this up just as something interesting, and not to get into
a Gilbert-Nelson discussion.

AA
1

ACL
2

ACY
1

ATSF
14

B&M
2

C&O
3

C&S
63

CB&Q
24

CG
2

CNW
12

CP
1

CRI&P
4

D&H
5

D&M
1

D&RGW
2

DL&W
2

DSS&A
1

Erie
3

FW&D
5

GM&O
2

GN
6

GTW
1

IC
9

KCS
3

L&A
1

L&N
7

LV
1

M&StL
1

MEC
1

MILW
10

MKT
2

MNS
1

MON
1

MP
5

N&W
7

NKP
1

NP
12

NS
1

NYC
9

P&LE
4

PRR
8

RDG
1

SAL
3

SLSF
10

SOO
1

SOU
16

SP
16

SP&S
3

SSW
1

T&NO
4

TP
1

UP
9

WAB
2

WM
2

WofA
1

WP
1

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon



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Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.19120)
http://www.pctools.com <http://www.pctools.com/?cclick=EmailFooterClean_51>
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Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.19130)
http://www.pctools.com/
=======