PE 5700 series gondola


Dave Nelson
 

I came across a drawing of a 1922 built Pacific Electric gondola in the
5700-5799 series and on a lark, purchased it. An old ORER says it is a GS
gon and the (fuzzy) drawing appears to confirm that. It's not described in
Tony's book of SP gons and so I don't know any of its history, other than
it's not in the 1943 listing for PE so they're either retired by then or
transferred to the SP. Anyone know anything of these cars? Did they get
re-marked for the SP? Any photos?



Thanks in advance.



Dave Nelson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dave Nelson wrote:
I came across a drawing of a 1922 built Pacific Electric gondola in the 5700-5799 series and on a lark, purchased it. An old ORER says it is a GS gon and the (fuzzy) drawing appears to confirm that. It's not described in Tony's book of SP gons and so I don't know any of its history, other than it's not in the 1943 listing for PE so they're either retired by then or transferred to the SP. Anyone know anything of these cars? Did they get re-marked for the SP? Any photos?
Yes, they are indeed in my book: look at Class W-50-0, page 33. PE and Ira Swett called them dump cars and they were rostered with the other Work equipment in W classes. In 1940 the survivors were transferred to SP. Swett says they were "steel," but the original AC&F order reported in _Railway Age_ says they were composite cars, and the photograph on p. 61 of my book confirms that: a photo of PE 5729. It has what appear to be wooden sides, so probably a steel underframe. Interestingly it is carrying a lumber load.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tom Vanwormer
 

Doing more searching in Ira Swett Vol. III of Cars of the PE, pg. 774 he
shows that of the 5700 to 5899 Dump cars, 5730 became SP47566, 5780
became 47567, 5831 became SP 47568 and 5832 became SP 47569. I like you
would tend to believe Railway Age descriptions of the car construction.
I also note that all the other drop bottom cars except the 5700-5899 are
called out as Gondola for type, so I would agree that these SP class W cars.

Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

Anthony Thompson wrote:



Dave Nelson wrote:
I came across a drawing of a 1922 built Pacific Electric gondola in
the 5700-5799 series and on a lark, purchased it. An old ORER says
it is a GS gon and the (fuzzy) drawing appears to confirm that.
It's not described in Tony's book of SP gons and so I don't know any
of its history, other than it's not in the 1943 listing for PE so
they're either retired by then or transferred to the SP. Anyone
know anything of these cars? Did they get re-marked for the SP?
Any photos?
Yes, they are indeed in my book: look at Class W-50-0, page 33. PE
and Ira Swett called them dump cars and they were rostered with the
other Work equipment in W classes. In 1940 the survivors were
transferred to SP. Swett says they were "steel," but the original AC&F
order reported in _Railway Age_ says they were composite cars, and the
photograph on p. 61 of my book confirms that: a photo of PE 5729. It
has what appear to be wooden sides, so probably a steel underframe.
Interestingly it is carrying a lumber load.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail,
thompson@signaturepress.com <mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history



Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

I like you would tend to believe Railway Age descriptions of the car construction.
I especially tend to believe the photo <g>. Tony


Lee Gautreaux
 

Tony,

I have a few questions about these cars. First, do you know the limits of the SP series to which the PE 5700-5899 were renumbered? My 1940 ORER does not list them, and my 1950 ORER lists SP 47572-47663 with only 3 remaining. The other group of PE gons that went to the SP I have as PE 5601-5699 PSC 1913. Can you tell me if this is correct for a group of 99 cars, or should it start at 5600? Were these the only PE gons to go to SP?

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/bynumber/pe_number.htm

Thanks,

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/


Yes, they are indeed in my book: look at Class W-50-0, page 33. PE
and Ira Swett called them dump cars and they were rostered with the
other Work equipment in W classes. In 1940 the survivors were
transferred to SP. Swett says they were "steel," but the original AC&F
order reported in _Railway Age_ says they were composite cars, and the
photograph on p. 61 of my book confirms that: a photo of PE 5729. It
has what appear to be wooden sides, so probably a steel underframe.
Interestingly it is carrying a lumber load.

Tony Thompson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Lee Gautreaux wrote:
I have a few questions about these cars. First, do you know the limits of the SP series to which the PE 5700-5899 were renumbered? My 1940 ORER does not list them, and my 1950 ORER lists SP 47572-47663 with only 3 remaining. The other group of PE gons that went to the SP I have as PE 5601-5699 PSC 1913. Can you tell me if this is correct for a group of 99 cars, or should it start at 5600? Were these the only PE gons to go to SP?
I don't know for a fact which cars went to SP, as they do not show up in my ledgers. It looks like about 100 of the original 200 PE cars were transferred. I have a 1944 ORER, which list 98 cars in SP series 47566-47665. The Swett PE book (Vol. III on cars) lists only four specific cars: PE 5730 going to SP 47566, 5780 going to SP 47567, 5831 going to 47568 and 5832 to 47569.
For the PE 5600 series, I'm sure it was 5600-5699, as the _Railway Age_ entry said 100 cars. Only 50 of them survived to get transferred to SP in 1937-38 (these cars do show up in my ledgers).
Not sure what you mean by the question, "Were these the only PE gons to go to SP?" since lots of the GS gons, and some of the G-50-13 GB gons were also transferred, as shown in my book.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Lee Gautreaux
 

Tony,

Okay, I was missing the G-50-9 and -13 cars. I knew there were more PE gons, but I forgot that some were given SP class designations when built. I think I have the appropriate updates made. The Swett book sounds awesome. Oh, Vol 1 is at the office. Thanks for the help.

Goat

I don't know for a fact which cars went to SP, as they do not
show up in my ledgers. It looks like about 100 of the original 200 PE
cars were transferred. I have a 1944 ORER, which list 98 cars in SP
series 47566-47665. The Swett PE book (Vol. III on cars) lists only
four specific cars: PE 5730 going to SP 47566, 5780 going to SP 47567,
5831 going to 47568 and 5832 to 47569.
For the PE 5600 series, I'm sure it was 5600-5699, as the
_Railway Age_ entry said 100 cars. Only 50 of them survived to get
transferred to SP in 1937-38 (these cars do show up in my ledgers).
Not sure what you mean by the question, "Were these the only
PE gons to go to SP?" since lots of the GS gons, and some of the
G-50-13 GB gons were also transferred, as shown in my book.

Tony Thompson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Okay, I was missing the G-50-9 and -13 cars. I knew there were more PE gons, but I forgot that some were given SP class designations when built. I think I have the appropriate updates made. The Swett book sounds awesome. Oh, Vol 1 is at the office. Thanks for the help.
The three Swett volumes are quite interesting and, for their time, very complete. Only Vol. III covers freight cars directly. The freight car information is sometimes a little fragmentary and in a few cases mistaken (I think that is a result of the material provided by Swett's sources, as he himself was very meticulous). I would call Vol. III very helpful and a good resource, but far from the last word. Probably its best feature is the detailed effort to describe all the PE work equipment and the various numbers assigned to those cars over the years.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Bill Kelly
 

I can add the following:
PE 5600-5699
50 cars went to the SP 44110-44159 series and 50 stayed at the PE.
The July 1933 ORER does not list the SP series, the October 1937
ORER lists 50 cars in the SP series. Subsequent years list 50 cars
in the SP and PE series.

PE 5700-5899
100 cars went to the SP 47566-47665 series and 100 stayed at the PE.
The January 1939 ORER lists an SP 47091-47577 series of 135 hopper
bottom gondolas, HD type, and no mention of the 47566 series. The July
1940 ORER lists 100 cars in the SP 47566-47665 series with a triangle
denoting additions. The HD type gons are listed as 47096-47546 with a
total of 16 cars and a diamond denoting and increase !? Subsequent
years list 100 cars + or - in the SP and PE series.

Lee what quarter is your 1940 ORER ?
This will narrow my time frame for the transfer of the 5700s.
Later,
Bill Kelly


Tony Thompson wrote:
Lee Gautreaux wrote:
I have a few questions about these cars. First, do you know the
limits of the SP series to which the PE 5700-5899 were renumbered?
My 1940 ORER does not list them, and my 1950 ORER lists SP
47572-47663 with only 3 remaining. The other group of PE gons
that went to the SP I have as PE 5601-5699 PSC 1913. Can you tell me
if this is correct for a group of 99 cars, or should it start at
5600?
Were these the only PE gons to go to SP?
I don't know for a fact which cars went to SP, as they do
not show up in my ledgers. It looks like about 100 of the original 200
PE cars were transferred. I have a 1944 ORER, which list 98 cars in SP
series 47566-47665. The Swett PE book (Vol. III on cars) lists only
four specific cars: PE 5730 going to SP 47566, 5780 going to SP
47567, 5831 going to 47568 and 5832 to 47569.
For the PE 5600 series, I'm sure it was 5600-5699, as the
_Railway Age_ entry said 100 cars. Only 50 of them survived to get
transferred to SP in 1937-38 (these cars do show up in my ledgers).
Not sure what you mean by the question, "Were these the
only PE gons to go to SP?" since lots of the GS gons, and some of the
G-50-13 GB gons were also transferred, as shown in my book.

Tony Thompson
____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4f8c648ea93d513aa2m02vuc


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bill Kelly wrote:
PE 5700-5899
100 cars went to the SP 47566-47665 series and 100 stayed at the PE. The January 1939 ORER lists an SP 47091-47577 series of 135 hopper bottom gondolas, HD type, and no mention of the 47566 series. The July 1940 ORER lists 100 cars in the SP 47566-47665 series with a triangle denoting additions. The HD type gons are listed as 47096-47546 with a total of 16 cars and a diamond denoting and increase !? Subsequent years list 100 cars + or - in the SP and PE series.

This will narrow my time frame for the transfer of the 5700s.
Bill, the transfer date was April 1, 1940, as you can see in my gondola book. This is from SP's car ledger.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Bill Kelly
 

Thanks Tony, I see it now.
Later,
Bill Kelly


Anthony Thompson wrote:
Bill Kelly wrote:
snip <
Bill, the transfer date was April 1, 1940, as you can see in my

gondola book. This is from SP's car ledger.
____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4f8cab91484e6140cdm02vuc


Lee Gautreaux
 

Bill,

My primary reference for cars prior to 1960 is a series of ORER's on CD-ROM from Westerfield. Dates as follows:

1930 - Dec - ?
1940 - Jan - 2158
1950 - Jul - 1256
1959 - Jan - 0

I was quite amazed at the number of PE cars in the ORER at the late years as listed above.

I need to go through these entries to get the PE pages more up to date.

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/


I can add the following:
PE 5600-5699
50 cars went to the SP 44110-44159 series and 50 stayed at the PE.
The July 1933 ORER does not list the SP series, the October 1937
ORER lists 50 cars in the SP series. Subsequent years list 50 cars
in the SP and PE series.

PE 5700-5899
100 cars went to the SP 47566-47665 series and 100 stayed at the PE.
The January 1939 ORER lists an SP 47091-47577 series of 135 hopper
bottom gondolas, HD type, and no mention of the 47566 series. The July
1940 ORER lists 100 cars in the SP 47566-47665 series with a triangle
denoting additions. The HD type gons are listed as 47096-47546 with a
total of 16 cars and a diamond denoting and increase !? Subsequent
years list 100 cars + or - in the SP and PE series.

Lee what quarter is your 1940 ORER ?
This will narrow my time frame for the transfer of the 5700s.
Later,
Bill Kelly