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Throwing Turnouts, was Re: Truck bearings: Solid vs. RB

Mikebrock
 

Actually, the term "throwing a turnout" is perfectly correct...if used in the following terminology. When I was putting in a new siding at Buford [ now, Bruceford ], I bought what I thought was a Peco #8 right hand turnout [ building a turnout at that location was difficult so I took the easy way out...so I thought ]. It turned out to be a left hand and the result is that I threw it some distance.

Mike Brock
Ed Mims
 

I agree with Mike. "Throwing a turnout" (and "throwing a switch") is commonly used by those who work in the railroad industry (although it is not usually literally done in anger). The terms that annoy me are "striup step" and "roof walk" when speaking of sill steps and running boards, respectively. Try and find these two in a Car Builders Dictionary.
 
Ed Mims
Jacksonville, FL


________________________________
From: Mike Brock <brockm@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 10:23 AM
Subject: Re:Throwing Turnouts, was [STMFC] Re: Truck bearings: Solid vs. RB



 


Actually, the term "throwing a turnout" is perfectly correct...if used in
the following terminology. When I was putting in a new siding at Buford [
now, Bruceford ], I bought what I thought was a Peco #8 right hand turnout
[ building a turnout at that location was difficult so I took the easy way
out...so I thought ]. It turned out to be a left hand and the result is that
I threw it some distance.

Mike Brock




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brian Ehni <behni@...>
 

LMAO!


Thanks!
--

Brian P. Ehni

From: Mike Brock <brockm@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Thursday, April 26, 2012 9:23 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re:Throwing Turnouts, was [STMFC] Re: Truck bearings: Solid vs.
RB







Actually, the term "throwing a turnout" is perfectly correct...if used in
the following terminology. When I was putting in a new siding at Buford [
now, Bruceford ], I bought what I thought was a Peco #8 right hand turnout
[ building a turnout at that location was difficult so I took the easy way
out...so I thought ]. It turned out to be a left hand and the result is that
I threw it some distance.

Mike Brock









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., w m <bulletmims@...> wrote:

I agree with Mike. "Throwing a turnout" (and "throwing a switch") is commonly used by those who work in the railroad industry (although it is not usually literally done in anger)...
Harumpf! The operating people on a railroad have very little idea what a turnout is, since all they deal with is the switch.

As I'm prone to say, "A switchman can line a switch, but it takes the whole track gang to line a turnout."

Dennis
Jeff Coleman
 

During my brakeman days we would throw a switch or line the iron or track. I do not recall any trainman using the word turnout.
Jeff Coleman

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., w m <bulletmims@> wrote:

I agree with Mike. "Throwing a turnout" (and "throwing a switch") is commonly used by those who work in the railroad industry (although it is not usually literally done in anger)...
Harumpf! The operating people on a railroad have very little idea what a turnout is, since all they deal with is the switch.

As I'm prone to say, "A switchman can line a switch, but it takes the whole track gang to line a turnout."

Dennis
midrly <midrly@...>
 

Dennis--

Um, I'm one of those "operating people" as a conductor and loco engineer on a Canadian class one railway. I also have been handlaying some HO scale Code 55 and 70 turnouts the past little while. (Thanks be to FasTracks PC board ties!)

My afternoon job pays the bills, and constantly reminds me why I don't "throw a turnout". My back probably wouldn't be able to take it, and if I "threw turnouts" at work, there'd be multi-levels on the ground with my road buying a lot of new damaged Equinoxes and Terrains sans serial numbers.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., w m <bulletmims@> wrote:

I agree with Mike. "Throwing a turnout" (and "throwing a switch") is commonly used by those who work in the railroad industry (although it is not usually literally done in anger)...
Harumpf! The operating people on a railroad have very little idea what a turnout is, since all they deal with is the switch.

As I'm prone to say, "A switchman can line a switch, but it takes the whole track gang to line a turnout."

Dennis
midrly <midrly@...>
 

Like anything else, regional dialects creep in on the railroad.

Taking a train back into Canada just south of the GTW Mount Clemens Sub. at Detroit's Beaubien interlocking on the former D&TSL, my pilot referred to a "banner" on a switch stand. I knew what he was referring to, but my conductor gave us a puzzled look. The Canadian railway English expression is a "target", not a "banner", on a switch stand.

A loco engineer is sometimes referred to as a "driver" in Atlantic Canada on CN. And the act of uncoupling a loco from a train in the Montreal area is often called "making headpin" (with a French equivalent to boot). THAT one had me bewildered the first time that it was said to me as an instruction. "When you make headpin"...what do you mean by that????

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "traininsp" <Bbear746@...> wrote:

During my brakeman days we would throw a switch or line the iron or track. I do not recall any trainman using the word turnout.
Jeff Coleman

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., w m <bulletmims@> wrote:

I agree with Mike. "Throwing a turnout" (and "throwing a switch") is commonly used by those who work in the railroad industry (although it is not usually literally done in anger)...
Harumpf! The operating people on a railroad have very little idea what a turnout is, since all they deal with is the switch.

As I'm prone to say, "A switchman can line a switch, but it takes the whole track gang to line a turnout."

Dennis
soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

Steve,

Did you read what I wrote?



"A switchman can line a switch, but it takes the whole track gang to line a turnout."

Dennis

Tony,

Absolutely nothing wrong with the term "turnout", it's what the Engineering Dept. calls the whole assemblage... Switch, frog, guard rails, timber, etc.

The operating people only concern themselves with the switch, since that's the only thing they can move (unless they put something badly on the ground, then they can move a lot of things :)

Dennis
midrly <midrly@...>
 

Dennis--

My post should have addressed your point about lining turnouts. My omission!

I've seen trackmen line turnouts and track. With lining bars accompanied by a lot of effort and profanity in many languages. I'm just glad that it's easier to line turnouts and track in HO scale. And that I started in the Transportation department instead of the section... :)

The expression "equilateral turnout" appears in the current Canadian Rail Operating Rules, by the way.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:

Steve,

Did you read what I wrote?



"A switchman can line a switch, but it takes the whole track gang to line a turnout."

Dennis

Tony,

Absolutely nothing wrong with the term "turnout", it's what the Engineering Dept. calls the whole assemblage... Switch, frog, guard rails, timber, etc.

The operating people only concern themselves with the switch, since that's the only thing they can move (unless they put something badly on the ground, then they can move a lot of things :)

Dennis
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
Tony,
Absolutely nothing wrong with the term "turnout", it's what the Engineering Dept. calls the whole assemblage... Switch, frog, guard rails, timber, etc.
The operating people only concern themselves with the switch, since that's the only thing they can move (unless they put something badly on the ground, then they can move a lot of things :)
Yes, and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise on the term itself. When I did materials research on railroad rails, I was for a time on the AAR Research Committee, and in fact co-authored some technical papers on rail performance in conference proceedings, both American and European. On that Committee, I heard lots of commentary from old- head track supervisors, and as you say, the track guys think only of turnouts.
But the Kalmbach/Westcott concept was never to refer to anything about a turnout, including the switch part, as anything but a turnout. Whether the avoidance of confusion with electrical switches was worth it, I can't say.

Tony Thompson
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937;
e-mail: thompson@...
Brian Ehni <behni@...>
 

Which is different from the Canadian "boot to the head" (Tai Kwan Leep).
8^)


Thanks!
--

Brian P. Ehni

From: midrly <midrly@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Thursday, April 26, 2012 12:37 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Throwing Turnouts, was [STMFC] Re: Truck bearings: Solid vs. RB






Like anything else, regional dialects creep in on the railroad.

Taking a train back into Canada just south of the GTW Mount Clemens Sub. at
Detroit's Beaubien interlocking on the former D&TSL, my pilot referred to a
"banner" on a switch stand. I knew what he was referring to, but my
conductor gave us a puzzled look. The Canadian railway English expression
is a "target", not a "banner", on a switch stand.

A loco engineer is sometimes referred to as a "driver" in Atlantic Canada on
CN. And the act of uncoupling a loco from a train in the Montreal area is
often called "making headpin" (with a French equivalent to boot). THAT one
had me bewildered the first time that it was said to me as an instruction.
"When you make headpin"...what do you mean by that????

Steve Lucas..
John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

Turnout is a model railroad term used to avoid confusion with certain toggle
or push-button power routing devices.



Fer instance when Otto tells Lyle to “through switch 8” so he can use block
#8 just as poor Richards runs through turnout #8 causing his brand new Kohs
and Company O scale Big Boy to the floor.



But some modelers, notably guy whose name escape through some of the holes
had a rather well known railroad called the “troll and Elfin.” I think his
last name was Knott’s and possibly Richard for a first name. Anyway, one of
the neat scenes on the layout was a cemetery named “Knotts Bury Farm.” In
one of his articles he said about switches “No, dadgum, I do not have
turnouts.”



Whether the term originated with Lin Westcott I have no idea.



John Hagen



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
soolinehistory
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 10:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Throwing Turnouts, was [STMFC] Re: Truck bearings: Solid vs. RB







--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , w m
<bulletmims@...> wrote:

I agree with Mike. "Throwing a turnout"Â (and "throwing a switch")Â is
commonly used by those who work in the railroad industry (although it is not
usually literally done in anger)...

Harumpf! The operating people on a railroad have very little idea what a
turnout is, since all they deal with is the switch.

As I'm prone to say, "A switchman can line a switch, but it takes the whole
track gang to line a turnout."

Dennis





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

<Tony,
<
<Absolutely nothing wrong with the term "turnout", it's what the
<Engineering Dept. calls the whole assemblage... Switch, frog, guard
<rails, timber, etc.
<
<The operating people only concern themselves with the switch, since
<that's the only thing they can move (unless they put something badly on
<the ground, then they can move a lot of things :)
<
<Dennis

That statement agrees with my 1929 copy of "Trackwork and the Section
Foreman" copyrighted in 1935. (It was used by a YV Section Foreman.) The
book refers to a "turnout" as the whole connection between one track
branching from the other. What we tend to call "points" is labeled on a
drawing as the "switch rails" with the "Point of the Switch" as where the
switch rails end (or begin). It goes on to say "A turnout is sometimes
called a switch, but the switch really is only one part of the turnout."

Jack Burgess
Newark, CA
Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
 

A turnoutman, now that is an interesting concept.

Joel Holmes

Dennis Storzek wrote:
Tony,
Absolutely nothing wrong with the term "turnout", it's what the
Engineering Dept. calls the whole assemblage... Switch, frog, guard
rails, timber, etc.
The operating people only concern themselves with the switch, since
that's the only thing they can move (unless they put something badly
on the ground, then they can move a lot of things :)
Yes, and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise on the term itself.
When I did materials research on railroad rails, I was for a time on
the AAR Research Committee, and in fact co-authored some technical
papers on rail performance in conference proceedings, both American
and European. On that Committee, I heard lots of commentary from old-
head track supervisors, and as you say, the track guys think only of
turnouts.
But the Kalmbach/Westcott concept was never to refer to anything
about a turnout, including the switch part, as anything but a turnout.
Whether the avoidance of confusion with electrical switches was worth
it, I can't say.

Tony Thompson
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937;
e-mail: thompson@...
Bruce Smith
 

John,

You probably sent this before seeing the other responses, but this is not correct. Turnout is most definitely a prototype railroad term, used by railroad employees (track department) to denote the entire assemblage of the apparatus that allows a train to journey forth on one of two (or three) tracks, Switch is also a prototype railroad term used by both the operating department and the track department to denote the moving parts of a turnout. As Tony clarified in his second message, the use of turnout was not invented as a model railroad term, but the insistence on never using "switch" was an editorial decision...

BTW, did Mr. Westcott call the location of the lever that operated the switch, and the target indicating switch position, the "turnout stand"? If not, I suggest the futility of the decision is self-evident ;^)

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

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On Apr 26, 2012, at 1:10 PM, John Hagen wrote:

Turnout is a model railroad term used to avoid confusion with certain toggle
or push-button power routing devices.
Richard Wilkens <railsnw@...>
 

Thank you Dennis, you beat me to it.

Richard Wilkens

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:

Steve,

Did you read what I wrote?



"A switchman can line a switch, but it takes the whole track gang to line a turnout."

Dennis

Tony,

Absolutely nothing wrong with the term "turnout", it's what the Engineering Dept. calls the whole assemblage... Switch, frog, guard rails, timber, etc.

The operating people only concern themselves with the switch, since that's the only thing they can move (unless they put something badly on the ground, then they can move a lot of things :)

Dennis
John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

So when I finally finish my HO model of the GB&W 0-6-0 #145 I should refer
to it as a "turnout engine?"



I've been following all this and I was somewhat surprised that there is such
a term used on the prototype albeit mostly limited to the engineering
departments. For model railroading purposes operating department jargon is
most commonly used thus the possible confusion of the term "switch" with the
very similar sounding term "switch."



John Hagen



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Bruce F. Smith
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 1:26 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: Throwing Turnouts, was [STMFC] Re: Truck bearings: Solid vs. RB





John,

You probably sent this before seeing the other responses, but this is not
correct. Turnout is most definitely a prototype railroad term, used by
railroad employees (track department) to denote the entire assemblage of the
apparatus that allows a train to journey forth on one of two (or three)
tracks, Switch is also a prototype railroad term used by both the operating
department and the track department to denote the moving parts of a turnout.
As Tony clarified in his second message, the use of turnout was not invented
as a model railroad term, but the insistence on never using "switch" was an
editorial decision...

BTW, did Mr. Westcott call the location of the lever that operated the
switch, and the target indicating switch position, the "turnout stand"? If
not, I suggest the futility of the decision is self-evident ;^)

Regards

Bruce
Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
 

Ya, but you will also need some turnoutmen.

Joel Holmes

So when I finally finish my HO model of the GB&W 0-6-0 #145 I should refer
to it as a "turnout engine?"



I've been following all this and I was somewhat surprised that there is
such
a term used on the prototype albeit mostly limited to the engineering
departments. For model railroading purposes operating department jargon is
most commonly used thus the possible confusion of the term "switch" with
the
very similar sounding term "switch."



John Hagen



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Bruce F. Smith
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 1:26 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: Throwing Turnouts, was [STMFC] Re: Truck bearings: Solid vs.
RB





John,

You probably sent this before seeing the other responses, but this is not
correct. Turnout is most definitely a prototype railroad term, used by
railroad employees (track department) to denote the entire assemblage of
the
apparatus that allows a train to journey forth on one of two (or three)
tracks, Switch is also a prototype railroad term used by both the
operating
department and the track department to denote the moving parts of a
turnout.
As Tony clarified in his second message, the use of turnout was not
invented
as a model railroad term, but the insistence on never using "switch" was
an
editorial decision...

BTW, did Mr. Westcott call the location of the lever that operated the
switch, and the target indicating switch position, the "turnout stand"? If
not, I suggest the futility of the decision is self-evident ;^)

Regards

Bruce
soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:


BTW, did Mr. Westcott call the location of the lever that operated the switch, and the target indicating switch position, the "turnout stand"? If not, I suggest the futility of the decision is self-evident ;^)

Regards

Bruce
Few people modeled things to that degree of accuracy back then... But, the electro-mechanical device that operated the switch points was always called a "switch machine", same term as applied to power operated devices that perform the same function on the prototype.

If Westcott was guilty of anything, it was adopting the prototype term that was more all inclusive for the subject mater he was writing about... after all, Lionel called them "switches", but I bet their customers would have been upset if all they got in the box was a couple point rails :)

It's the modelers themselves that adopted the term in the operating sense, but likely as much to avoid confusion with the block switches we all had to deal with as due to ignorance of the prototype operating term. The prototype didn't seem to have this problem... when the Chief told the dispatcher to "line the switch" on his CTC machine, he knew exactly what was being referred to. Then he grabbed the selector on his CTC panel and did it :)

Dennis
John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

Joel,



That's "Turnout person" nowadays.



John Hagen



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Joel
Holmes
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 1:54 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: Throwing Turnouts, was [STMFC] Re: Truck bearings: Solid vs. RB





Ya, but you will also need some turnoutmen.

Joel Holmes
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