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Throwing Turnouts, was Re: Truck bearings: Solid vs. RB
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Richard Hendrickson
On Apr 28, 2012, at 2:33 PM, soolinehistory wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., RUTLANDRS@... wrote:That, at least, has something vaguely to do with freight cars (theThat joke is getting tiresome. Consider this; perhaps switchmen list topic, remember?), which almost all other posts on this topic emphatically do not. Where are our group leaders when we need them? Richard Hendrickson |
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soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
--- In STMFC@..., RUTLANDRS@... wrote:
That joke is getting tiresome. Consider this; perhaps switchmen aren't called that because they line switches, but rather because they switch cars. Dennis |
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Charles Hladik
But yet we don't have turnout stands or turnoutmen, hmmmmmmm
Chuck Hladik In a message dated 4/28/2012 5:13:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, navyfan696@... writes: I think I heard that the confusion with<snip> In CSX's 2011 annual report (p. 12) it says "...and track that diverts trains from one track to another known as turnouts." Mike Calo Glen Burnie MD |
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navyfan696 <navyfan696@...>
I think I heard that the confusion with<snip> In CSX's 2011 annual report (p. 12) it says "...and track that diverts trains from one track to another known as turnouts." Mike Calo Glen Burnie MD |
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Michael Watnoski
Greetings,
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I think I heard that the confusion with switch and turnout was because Model Railroader style guide dictated that turnout was to be used to avoid conflict with an electrical switch, as in throw the toggle switch to move the turnout. Michael On 4/26/2012 11:29 AM, soolinehistory wrote:
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George Simmons
--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:
I don't know it I would necessarily agree with that as a blanket statement. I have MOP employee timetables from the 1950's, in the Special instructions item 3-C is titled "THROUGH TURNOUTS AND CROSSOVERS, AND SPRING SWITCHES". So, I would expect that the trainmen and yard crews would know what the turnout was even if they only lined the points. George Simmons Dry Prong, LA |
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John Hagen
For sure, for sure good buddy. (:-)
Back in steam days freight cars were always being shuffled in and out of turnout yards. John Hagen From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Staffan Ehnbom Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 2:41 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: Throwing Turnouts, was [STMFC] Re: Truck bearings: Solid vs. RB Does this boring exchange have anything to do with freight cars?(:)) Staffan Ehnbom |
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Staffan Ehnbom <staffan.ehnbom@...>
Does this boring exchange have anything to do with freight cars?(:))
Staffan Ehnbom |
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Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
Ya, than how come I have a femailman?
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Joel Joel, |
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John Hagen
Joel,
That's "Turnout person" nowadays. John Hagen From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Joel Holmes Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 1:54 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: Throwing Turnouts, was [STMFC] Re: Truck bearings: Solid vs. RB Ya, but you will also need some turnoutmen. Joel Holmes |
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soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:
Few people modeled things to that degree of accuracy back then... But, the electro-mechanical device that operated the switch points was always called a "switch machine", same term as applied to power operated devices that perform the same function on the prototype. If Westcott was guilty of anything, it was adopting the prototype term that was more all inclusive for the subject mater he was writing about... after all, Lionel called them "switches", but I bet their customers would have been upset if all they got in the box was a couple point rails :) It's the modelers themselves that adopted the term in the operating sense, but likely as much to avoid confusion with the block switches we all had to deal with as due to ignorance of the prototype operating term. The prototype didn't seem to have this problem... when the Chief told the dispatcher to "line the switch" on his CTC machine, he knew exactly what was being referred to. Then he grabbed the selector on his CTC panel and did it :) Dennis |
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Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
Ya, but you will also need some turnoutmen.
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Joel Holmes So when I finally finish my HO model of the GB&W 0-6-0 #145 I should refer |
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John Hagen
So when I finally finish my HO model of the GB&W 0-6-0 #145 I should refer
to it as a "turnout engine?" I've been following all this and I was somewhat surprised that there is such a term used on the prototype albeit mostly limited to the engineering departments. For model railroading purposes operating department jargon is most commonly used thus the possible confusion of the term "switch" with the very similar sounding term "switch." John Hagen From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Bruce F. Smith Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 1:26 PM To: <STMFC@...> Subject: Re: Throwing Turnouts, was [STMFC] Re: Truck bearings: Solid vs. RB John, You probably sent this before seeing the other responses, but this is not correct. Turnout is most definitely a prototype railroad term, used by railroad employees (track department) to denote the entire assemblage of the apparatus that allows a train to journey forth on one of two (or three) tracks, Switch is also a prototype railroad term used by both the operating department and the track department to denote the moving parts of a turnout. As Tony clarified in his second message, the use of turnout was not invented as a model railroad term, but the insistence on never using "switch" was an editorial decision... BTW, did Mr. Westcott call the location of the lever that operated the switch, and the target indicating switch position, the "turnout stand"? If not, I suggest the futility of the decision is self-evident ;^) Regards Bruce |
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Richard Wilkens <railsnw@...>
Thank you Dennis, you beat me to it.
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Richard Wilkens --- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:
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John,
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You probably sent this before seeing the other responses, but this is not correct. Turnout is most definitely a prototype railroad term, used by railroad employees (track department) to denote the entire assemblage of the apparatus that allows a train to journey forth on one of two (or three) tracks, Switch is also a prototype railroad term used by both the operating department and the track department to denote the moving parts of a turnout. As Tony clarified in his second message, the use of turnout was not invented as a model railroad term, but the insistence on never using "switch" was an editorial decision... BTW, did Mr. Westcott call the location of the lever that operated the switch, and the target indicating switch position, the "turnout stand"? If not, I suggest the futility of the decision is self-evident ;^) Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield." __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 On Apr 26, 2012, at 1:10 PM, John Hagen wrote:
Turnout is a model railroad term used to avoid confusion with certain toggle or push-button power routing devices. |
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Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
A turnoutman, now that is an interesting concept.
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Joel Holmes Dennis Storzek wrote:Tony,Yes, and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise on the term itself. |
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Jack Burgess <jack@...>
<Tony,
< <Absolutely nothing wrong with the term "turnout", it's what the <Engineering Dept. calls the whole assemblage... Switch, frog, guard <rails, timber, etc. < <The operating people only concern themselves with the switch, since <that's the only thing they can move (unless they put something badly on <the ground, then they can move a lot of things :) < <Dennis That statement agrees with my 1929 copy of "Trackwork and the Section Foreman" copyrighted in 1935. (It was used by a YV Section Foreman.) The book refers to a "turnout" as the whole connection between one track branching from the other. What we tend to call "points" is labeled on a drawing as the "switch rails" with the "Point of the Switch" as where the switch rails end (or begin). It goes on to say "A turnout is sometimes called a switch, but the switch really is only one part of the turnout." Jack Burgess Newark, CA |
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John Hagen
Turnout is a model railroad term used to avoid confusion with certain toggle
or push-button power routing devices. Fer instance when Otto tells Lyle to “through switch 8” so he can use block #8 just as poor Richards runs through turnout #8 causing his brand new Kohs and Company O scale Big Boy to the floor. But some modelers, notably guy whose name escape through some of the holes had a rather well known railroad called the “troll and Elfin.” I think his last name was Knott’s and possibly Richard for a first name. Anyway, one of the neat scenes on the layout was a cemetery named “Knotts Bury Farm.” In one of his articles he said about switches “No, dadgum, I do not have turnouts.” Whether the term originated with Lin Westcott I have no idea. John Hagen From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of soolinehistory Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 10:30 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Throwing Turnouts, was [STMFC] Re: Truck bearings: Solid vs. RB --- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , w m <bulletmims@...> wrote: commonly used by those who work in the railroad industry (although it is not usually literally done in anger)... Harumpf! The operating people on a railroad have very little idea what a turnout is, since all they deal with is the switch. As I'm prone to say, "A switchman can line a switch, but it takes the whole track gang to line a turnout." Dennis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Brian Ehni <behni@...>
Which is different from the Canadian "boot to the head" (Tai Kwan Leep).
8^) Thanks! -- Brian P. Ehni From: midrly <midrly@...> Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Date: Thursday, April 26, 2012 12:37 PM To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Subject: Throwing Turnouts, was [STMFC] Re: Truck bearings: Solid vs. RB Like anything else, regional dialects creep in on the railroad. Taking a train back into Canada just south of the GTW Mount Clemens Sub. at Detroit's Beaubien interlocking on the former D&TSL, my pilot referred to a "banner" on a switch stand. I knew what he was referring to, but my conductor gave us a puzzled look. The Canadian railway English expression is a "target", not a "banner", on a switch stand. A loco engineer is sometimes referred to as a "driver" in Atlantic Canada on CN. And the act of uncoupling a loco from a train in the Montreal area is often called "making headpin" (with a French equivalent to boot). THAT one had me bewildered the first time that it was said to me as an instruction. "When you make headpin"...what do you mean by that???? Steve Lucas.. |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Dennis Storzek wrote:
Tony,Yes, and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise on the term itself. When I did materials research on railroad rails, I was for a time on the AAR Research Committee, and in fact co-authored some technical papers on rail performance in conference proceedings, both American and European. On that Committee, I heard lots of commentary from old- head track supervisors, and as you say, the track guys think only of turnouts. But the Kalmbach/Westcott concept was never to refer to anything about a turnout, including the switch part, as anything but a turnout. Whether the avoidance of confusion with electrical switches was worth it, I can't say. Tony Thompson 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail: thompson@... |
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