History of Prototype Freight Car Modeling Gould/TichyIMWX timeframe.


tyesac@...
 

Bill,

Which came first IMWX cars of the Gould (later Tichy) cars? I thought the Gould cars camme first.

Tom Casey


The seminal styrene kit I think it could be argued was the "Innovative Model Works" 1937 boxcar kit. When was this kit introduced. Does anyone have any good stories about the development of this model by Jerry Porter they can send me?

-----Original Message-----
From: lnbill <fgexbill@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, May 9, 2012 11:39 am
Subject: [STMFC] History of Prototype Freight Car Modeling




As some of you will remember from posts I made in the fall of 2011, I want to put together materials to create a history of modeling freight cars more accurately and more prototypically. I now have some good materials about the early offerings of Al Westerfield and the materials that publicized the releases of Westrail and Dennis Storzek. F&C is putting some materials together for me and I will be talking w/Martin about Sunshine's initial offerings.

Here are somethings I need your help with.

Materials related to Roller Bearing models--instructions, ads, kit lists, etc. It would especially be helpful to know when they started advertising. Also photos of built-up models.

Materials related to the Rail Progress hopper kits. (Do I have the correct name for this line?) Again built up model photos would be appreciated.

It could be argued that two seminal articles related to how our niche in the hobby has developed were Dennis Storzek's article on 5 things to do to improve existing styrene freight car models. This appeared sometime in the 1980's. Can someone provide scans of this article?

Bill Clouser's articles on using rubber molds and polyester (was that the material?) to make copies of parts, components, etc. Not sure of the dates or how many articles there were. Ned scans of at least one of these.

Arguably Prototype Modeler magazine helped change the thinking and orientation for some of us. I would love to have scans of the cover of the first few issues of this.

The seminal styrene kit I think it could be argued was the "Innovative Model Works" 1937 boxcar kit. When was this kit introduced. Does anyone have any good stories about the development of this model by Jerry Porter they can send me?

Can anyone furnish me with info about the beginnings of McKean, Front Range, and C&BT, i.e. the people involved, initial offerings, and or course nicely built up models.

Anecdotes about these pioneering styrene efforts and the people involved would be appreciated.

One more item and this may start an argument. Do we know who night have first used the term "Prototype" to describe the approach to what we are doing, either specifically to modeling, or more generally to the model railroading hobby.

I am planning to talk about this history from the 1/87th scale perspective because that is what I know. Tentatively this will be a presentation at Naperville and Cocoa Beach and I will consider how to make the presentation available to others for them to do a presentation.

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727-470-9930
fgexbill@...







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bill Welch
 

Tom:

I am sure the Gould/Tichy kits were first. While their die work was/is at a very level, I would argue that the IMWX model kit had greater impact because they were available with accurate paint and stenciling. Conversely the Gould/Tichy kits with a few exception have never been well supported with such essentials as decals, leaving it up to the modeler to sort out completing the model. The few examples they supported with decals featured poor quality decals.

That is my observation at least.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., tyesac@... wrote:


Bill,

Which came first IMWX cars of the Gould (later Tichy) cars? I thought the Gould cars camme first.

Tom Casey


The seminal styrene kit I think it could be argued was the "Innovative Model Works" 1937 boxcar kit. When was this kit introduced. Does anyone have any good stories about the development of this model by Jerry Porter they can send me?






-----Original Message-----
From: lnbill <fgexbill@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, May 9, 2012 11:39 am
Subject: [STMFC] History of Prototype Freight Car Modeling




As some of you will remember from posts I made in the fall of 2011, I want to put together materials to create a history of modeling freight cars more accurately and more prototypically. I now have some good materials about the early offerings of Al Westerfield and the materials that publicized the releases of Westrail and Dennis Storzek. F&C is putting some materials together for me and I will be talking w/Martin about Sunshine's initial offerings.

Here are somethings I need your help with.

Materials related to Roller Bearing models--instructions, ads, kit lists, etc. It would especially be helpful to know when they started advertising. Also photos of built-up models.

Materials related to the Rail Progress hopper kits. (Do I have the correct name for this line?) Again built up model photos would be appreciated.

It could be argued that two seminal articles related to how our niche in the hobby has developed were Dennis Storzek's article on 5 things to do to improve existing styrene freight car models. This appeared sometime in the 1980's. Can someone provide scans of this article?

Bill Clouser's articles on using rubber molds and polyester (was that the material?) to make copies of parts, components, etc. Not sure of the dates or how many articles there were. Ned scans of at least one of these.

Arguably Prototype Modeler magazine helped change the thinking and orientation for some of us. I would love to have scans of the cover of the first few issues of this.

The seminal styrene kit I think it could be argued was the "Innovative Model Works" 1937 boxcar kit. When was this kit introduced. Does anyone have any good stories about the development of this model by Jerry Porter they can send me?

Can anyone furnish me with info about the beginnings of McKean, Front Range, and C&BT, i.e. the people involved, initial offerings, and or course nicely built up models.

Anecdotes about these pioneering styrene efforts and the people involved would be appreciated.

One more item and this may start an argument. Do we know who night have first used the term "Prototype" to describe the approach to what we are doing, either specifically to modeling, or more generally to the model railroading hobby.

I am planning to talk about this history from the 1/87th scale perspective because that is what I know. Tentatively this will be a presentation at Naperville and Cocoa Beach and I will consider how to make the presentation available to others for them to do a presentation.

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727-470-9930
fgexbill@...









Andy Carlson
 

I was a younger Prototype modeler in 1987 when I met a gracious influential
gentleman at the Eugene, OR. NMRA convention. The Westrail kits he developed and
marketed were real eye-openers for me. Later, his scholarly writings in various
modeling magazines cemented his stature as the greatest Prototype pioneer in
Model Railroading.


Another item worthy of mention: back then, the McKeen double door 40' boxcar
raised the bar high enough that later Intermountain, Red Caboose and other
companies had higher standards to reach. We are all better off now because of
this pioneering styrene freight car.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Andy Harman
 

At 12:48 PM 5/9/2012 -0400, you wrote:

Which came first IMWX cars of the Gould (later Tichy) cars? I thought the Gould cars camme first.
This is fun to try and test my memory without looking it up... my normal source is old MR ads and what not, but those are all in storage while I fix up my basement. I remember the Gould tank car and I think it got its first write-up in Mainline Modeler, which means it has to be 1980 or later. I bought one, sold it unbuilt.... I remember discussions on Compuserve's TrainNet circa 1989 where some guys were saying from now on Tichy was their minimum standard for freight cars, and I commented that they must not have a very diverse fleet. If I had to pick a number I'd say 1985. Just SWAG on my part, but I'm fairly sure that it came after E&B and the first incarnation of Fast Freddie, but before IMWX and Intermountain.

Oh, almost forgot about another flat kit from the mid 80s... the Ramax ACF 2-bay CF hopper. Front Range later did the same car in a one-piece body.

But it's difficult to discuss any of this without getting outside of the steam era since many manufacturers and pioneers crossed the boundary.

When did Sunshine and F&C start? I had no awareness of Sunshine until I attended my first Naperville event in 1994 or 95. F&C I think was around before that, I mainly remember their ads but nobody locally carried their stuff, and I rarely if ever bought anything by mail back then.

Oh, I just thought of something else. Red Ball's B&O wagon top hopper - the one composed of the flat, thin white metal castings that you had to bend to shape. I'm actually thinking 1970s, like 78 or 79 for this one. I think I still have it, never tried to build it... and I think have the F&C version also, ditto.

Andy


Bill Welch
 

Another reason why I think the IMWX model had great impact was that it coincided w/Rail Model Journal's articles about the 1937 boxcar both on the real thing with the photo resources of the Messers. Hawkins, Wider and Long collection and modeling articles using the new kit. these articles helped to educate us how important this design was and how many there were.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Tom:

I am sure the Gould/Tichy kits were first. While their die work was/is at a very level, I would argue that the IMWX model kit had greater impact because they were available with accurate paint and stenciling. Conversely the Gould/Tichy kits with a few exception have never been well supported with such essentials as decals, leaving it up to the modeler to sort out completing the model. The few examples they supported with decals featured poor quality decals.

That is my observation at least.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., tyesac@ wrote:


Bill,

Which came first IMWX cars of the Gould (later Tichy) cars? I thought the Gould cars camme first.

Tom Casey


The seminal styrene kit I think it could be argued was the "Innovative Model Works" 1937 boxcar kit. When was this kit introduced. Does anyone have any good stories about the development of this model by Jerry Porter they can send me?






-----Original Message-----
From: lnbill <fgexbill@>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, May 9, 2012 11:39 am
Subject: [STMFC] History of Prototype Freight Car Modeling




As some of you will remember from posts I made in the fall of 2011, I want to put together materials to create a history of modeling freight cars more accurately and more prototypically. I now have some good materials about the early offerings of Al Westerfield and the materials that publicized the releases of Westrail and Dennis Storzek. F&C is putting some materials together for me and I will be talking w/Martin about Sunshine's initial offerings.

Here are somethings I need your help with.

Materials related to Roller Bearing models--instructions, ads, kit lists, etc. It would especially be helpful to know when they started advertising. Also photos of built-up models.

Materials related to the Rail Progress hopper kits. (Do I have the correct name for this line?) Again built up model photos would be appreciated.

It could be argued that two seminal articles related to how our niche in the hobby has developed were Dennis Storzek's article on 5 things to do to improve existing styrene freight car models. This appeared sometime in the 1980's. Can someone provide scans of this article?

Bill Clouser's articles on using rubber molds and polyester (was that the material?) to make copies of parts, components, etc. Not sure of the dates or how many articles there were. Ned scans of at least one of these.

Arguably Prototype Modeler magazine helped change the thinking and orientation for some of us. I would love to have scans of the cover of the first few issues of this.

The seminal styrene kit I think it could be argued was the "Innovative Model Works" 1937 boxcar kit. When was this kit introduced. Does anyone have any good stories about the development of this model by Jerry Porter they can send me?

Can anyone furnish me with info about the beginnings of McKean, Front Range, and C&BT, i.e. the people involved, initial offerings, and or course nicely built up models.

Anecdotes about these pioneering styrene efforts and the people involved would be appreciated.

One more item and this may start an argument. Do we know who night have first used the term "Prototype" to describe the approach to what we are doing, either specifically to modeling, or more generally to the model railroading hobby.

I am planning to talk about this history from the 1/87th scale perspective because that is what I know. Tentatively this will be a presentation at Naperville and Cocoa Beach and I will consider how to make the presentation available to others for them to do a presentation.

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727-470-9930
fgexbill@







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bill Schneider
 

I’m going to say something that is perhaps long overdue...

Bill hits on a very valid point here. As he puts it, the efforts of authors like “Messers. Hawkins, Wider and Long”, Richard Hendrickson, and others through the support of Bob Schleicher and Rail Model Journal contributed a great deal to promote knowledge about both prototypes and available (or soon to be available) models of the same and went a VERY long way IMO in not only popularizing the movement, but (gasp!) showing modelers what was correct and what was... well... not so correct.

While RMJ might be an easy target for occasional lapses in editing or captions, the popularization of the RPM movement would be very much less developed without their efforts.

Bill Schneider
(who has yet to release a model in sync with an article about it!)

From: lnbill
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 3:25 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: History of Prototype Freight Car Modeling Gould/TichyIMWX timeframe.


Another reason why I think the IMWX model had great impact was that it coincided w/Rail Model Journal's articles about the 1937 boxcar both on the real thing with the photo resources of the Messers. Hawkins, Wider and Long collection and modeling articles using the new kit. these articles helped to educate us how important this design was and how many there were.

Bill Welch

--- In mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Tom:

I am sure the Gould/Tichy kits were first. While their die work was/is at a very level, I would argue that the IMWX model kit had greater impact because they were available with accurate paint and stenciling. Conversely the Gould/Tichy kits with a few exception have never been well supported with such essentials as decals, leaving it up to the modeler to sort out completing the model. The few examples they supported with decals featured poor quality decals.

That is my observation at least.

Bill Welch

--- In mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, tyesac@ wrote:


Bill,

Which came first IMWX cars of the Gould (later Tichy) cars? I thought the Gould cars camme first.

Tom Casey


The seminal styrene kit I think it could be argued was the "Innovative Model Works" 1937 boxcar kit. When was this kit introduced. Does anyone have any good stories about the development of this model by Jerry Porter they can send me?






-----Original Message-----
From: lnbill <fgexbill@>
To: STMFC <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, May 9, 2012 11:39 am
Subject: [STMFC] History of Prototype Freight Car Modeling




As some of you will remember from posts I made in the fall of 2011, I want to put together materials to create a history of modeling freight cars more accurately and more prototypically. I now have some good materials about the early offerings of Al Westerfield and the materials that publicized the releases of Westrail and Dennis Storzek. F&C is putting some materials together for me and I will be talking w/Martin about Sunshine's initial offerings.

Here are somethings I need your help with.

Materials related to Roller Bearing models--instructions, ads, kit lists, etc. It would especially be helpful to know when they started advertising. Also photos of built-up models.

Materials related to the Rail Progress hopper kits. (Do I have the correct name for this line?) Again built up model photos would be appreciated.

It could be argued that two seminal articles related to how our niche in the hobby has developed were Dennis Storzek's article on 5 things to do to improve existing styrene freight car models. This appeared sometime in the 1980's. Can someone provide scans of this article?

Bill Clouser's articles on using rubber molds and polyester (was that the material?) to make copies of parts, components, etc. Not sure of the dates or how many articles there were. Ned scans of at least one of these.

Arguably Prototype Modeler magazine helped change the thinking and orientation for some of us. I would love to have scans of the cover of the first few issues of this.

The seminal styrene kit I think it could be argued was the "Innovative Model Works" 1937 boxcar kit. When was this kit introduced. Does anyone have any good stories about the development of this model by Jerry Porter they can send me?

Can anyone furnish me with info about the beginnings of McKean, Front Range, and C&BT, i.e. the people involved, initial offerings, and or course nicely built up models.

Anecdotes about these pioneering styrene efforts and the people involved would be appreciated.

One more item and this may start an argument. Do we know who night have first used the term "Prototype" to describe the approach to what we are doing, either specifically to modeling, or more generally to the model railroading hobby.

I am planning to talk about this history from the 1/87th scale perspective because that is what I know. Tentatively this will be a presentation at Naperville and Cocoa Beach and I will consider how to make the presentation available to others for them to do a presentation.

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727-470-9930
fgexbill@







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bill Schneider wrote:
Bill hits on a very valid point here. As he puts it, the efforts of
authors like “Messers. Hawkins, Wider and Long”, Richard
Hendrickson, and others through the support of Bob Schleicher and
Rail Model Journal contributed a great deal to promote knowledge
about both prototypes and available (or soon to be available) models
of the same and went a VERY long way IMO in not only popularizing
the movement, but (gasp!) showing modelers what was correct and what
was... well... not so correct.
This is quite true, Bill, so thanks for stating it. Richard
has always believed, and often said, that the key to getting better
models is to get better information out there, for manufacturers to
use and for modelers to measure against their models. He has done that
for quite a few years, and his encouragement was one of the driving forces behind the PFE book--which as many of us realize, led promptly,
upon its publication, to several MUCH improved PFE commercial models.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Andy Harman
 

At 07:37 PM 5/9/2012 -0400, you wrote:
(who has yet to release a model in sync with an article about it!)
Well the Pullmans were within 20 years of the Hundman articles....

Andy