Date
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Freight Car Brown
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James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
Kudos to Ed Hawkins and Tru-Color paint for developing special freight car brown colors; per the June 2012 Model Railroad Hobbyist e-zine:
"With assistance from noted historian Ed Hawkins, Tru-Color Paint ( trucolorpaint.com ) has developed special freight-car brown colors matched to prototype railroad color chips for nearly 50 railroads. Tru-Color paint is an acrylic solvent based paint that dries to a high gloss finish. It is based on a formulation similar to the old Accupaint product line but has been modified to produce a better flow for application with an airbrush directly from the bottle without thinning. The paint sells for $ 4.99 for 1 ounce bottle, $8.95 for 2 ounce bottle, or 16 ounces at $74.95. "With assistance from noted historian Ed Hawkins, Tru-Color Paint ( trucolorpaint.com ) has developed special freight-car brown colors matched to prototype railroad color chips for nearly 50 railroads. Tru-Color paint is an acrylic solvent based paint that dries to a high gloss finish. It is based on a formulation similar to the old Accupaint product line but has been modified to produce a better flow for application with an airbrush directly from the bottle without thinning. The paint sells for $ 4.99 for 1 ounce bottle, $8.95 for 2 ounce bottle, or 16 ounces at $74.95. Tru-Color plans to introduce two new colors each month. Freight car brown for Union Pacific 1944-1960s (TCP-180), and Kansas City Southern 1944-1960, were released in May. Scheduled for release this month are Atlantic Coast Line 1944- 1960’s (TCP-182), and Chicago & Northwestern 1944-1960’s (TCP-183). The July release will include Frisco 1944-1960’s (TCP-184), and Central of Georgia 1944- 1960’s (TCP-185). Louisville & Nashville 1944-1960’s (TCP-186), and Grand Trunk Western 1944-1960’s (TCP-187), are scheduled for release in August." All sounds interesting and very promising. Thanks for all the work! All sounds interesting and very promising. Thanks for all the work! Jim Brewer Glenwood MD [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Brian Rochon
Jim,
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I notice that all of the listed colors show a start date of 1944. Did these railroads all change their color formulas in that year or would they be accurate for earlier years? I model 1943, so that means freight cars last painted as far back as the late 1930's? Brian Rochon Silver Spring, MD ----- Original Message -----
From: James F. Brewer<mailto:jfbrewer@...> To: STMFC<mailto:STMFC@...> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 2:04 PM Subject: [STMFC] Freight Car Brown Kudos to Ed Hawkins and Tru-Color paint for developing special freight car brown colors; per the June 2012 Model Railroad Hobbyist e-zine: "With assistance from noted historian Ed Hawkins, Tru-Color Paint ( trucolorpaint.com ) has developed special freight-car brown colors matched to prototype railroad color chips for nearly 50 railroads. Tru-Color paint is an acrylic solvent based paint that dries to a high gloss finish. It is based on a formulation similar to the old Accupaint product line but has been modified to produce a better flow for application with an airbrush directly from the bottle without thinning. The paint sells for $ 4.99 for 1 ounce bottle, $8.95 for 2 ounce bottle, or 16 ounces at $74.95. "With assistance from noted historian Ed Hawkins, Tru-Color Paint ( trucolorpaint.com ) has developed special freight-car brown colors matched to prototype railroad color chips for nearly 50 railroads. Tru-Color paint is an acrylic solvent based paint that dries to a high gloss finish. It is based on a formulation similar to the old Accupaint product line but has been modified to produce a better flow for application with an airbrush directly from the bottle without thinning. The paint sells for $ 4.99 for 1 ounce bottle, $8.95 for 2 ounce bottle, or 16 ounces at $74.95. Tru-Color plans to introduce two new colors each month. Freight car brown for Union Pacific 1944-1960s (TCP-180), and Kansas City Southern 1944-1960, were released in May. Scheduled for release this month are Atlantic Coast Line 1944- 1960’s (TCP-182), and Chicago & Northwestern 1944-1960’s (TCP-183). The July release will include Frisco 1944-1960’s (TCP-184), and Central of Georgia 1944- 1960’s (TCP-185). Louisville & Nashville 1944-1960’s (TCP-186), and Grand Trunk Western 1944-1960’s (TCP-187), are scheduled for release in August." All sounds interesting and very promising. Thanks for all the work! All sounds interesting and very promising. Thanks for all the work! Jim Brewer Glenwood MD [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
Brian,
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I have no idea; my "guess" is that Ed's data is circa 1944; perhaps he can fill in some info. Jim ----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Rochon" <berochon@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2012 4:11:24 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Freight Car Brown Jim, I notice that all of the listed colors show a start date of 1944. Did these railroads all change their color formulas in that year or would they be accurate for earlier years? I model 1943, so that means freight cars last painted as far back as the late 1930's? Brian Rochon Silver Spring, MD ----- Original Message ----- From: James F. Brewer<mailto: jfbrewer@... > To: STMFC<mailto: STMFC@... > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 2:04 PM Subject: [STMFC] Freight Car Brown Kudos to Ed Hawkins and Tru-Color paint for developing special freight car brown colors; per the June 2012 Model Railroad Hobbyist e-zine: "With assistance from noted historian Ed Hawkins, Tru-Color Paint ( trucolorpaint.com ) has developed special freight-car brown colors matched to prototype railroad color chips for nearly 50 railroads. Tru-Color paint is an acrylic solvent based paint that dries to a high gloss finish. It is based on a formulation similar to the old Accupaint product line but has been modified to produce a better flow for application with an airbrush directly from the bottle without thinning. The paint sells for $ 4.99 for 1 ounce bottle, $8.95 for 2 ounce bottle, or 16 ounces at $74.95. "With assistance from noted historian Ed Hawkins, Tru-Color Paint ( trucolorpaint.com ) has developed special freight-car brown colors matched to prototype railroad color chips for nearly 50 railroads. Tru-Color paint is an acrylic solvent based paint that dries to a high gloss finish. It is based on a formulation similar to the old Accupaint product line but has been modified to produce a better flow for application with an airbrush directly from the bottle without thinning. The paint sells for $ 4.99 for 1 ounce bottle, $8.95 for 2 ounce bottle, or 16 ounces at $74.95. Tru-Color plans to introduce two new colors each month. Freight car brown for Union Pacific 1944-1960s (TCP-180), and Kansas City Southern 1944-1960, were released in May. Scheduled for release this month are Atlantic Coast Line 1944- 1960’s (TCP-182), and Chicago & Northwestern 1944-1960’s (TCP-183). The July release will include Frisco 1944-1960’s (TCP-184), and Central of Georgia 1944- 1960’s (TCP-185). Louisville & Nashville 1944-1960’s (TCP-186), and Grand Trunk Western 1944-1960’s (TCP-187), are scheduled for release in August." All sounds interesting and very promising. Thanks for all the work! All sounds interesting and very promising. Thanks for all the work! Jim Brewer Glenwood MD [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Ed Hawkins
On Jun 7, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Brian Rochon wrote:
I notice that all of the listed colors show a start date of 1944. DidBrian, Based on the ACF paint samples from 1931 to 1952, there was a general trend from darker, browner, and flatter paints during the 1930s to the early 1940s to freight car colors that were lighter, with more red, and more glossy in the immediate postwar years and into the 1950s. There were some exceptions to this rule with UP being one example that used an oxide color in the late 1930s. Several ACF Santa Fe "Mineral Brown" paint samples for cars built during the 1930s to 1944 were quite dark brown and flat. Comparing to Tru-Color Paint #19, they are a perfect match. By the late 1940s ATSF Mineral Brown had changed considerably with more of a red-brown hue. Around the end of World War II the paint manufacturers apparently reformulated paints and the names often used "synthetic" in the description. Regards, Ed Hawkins [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
It's been a while since I raised the question about what paint color or mix
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comes closest to CB&Q Indian Red (aka mineral red). I've found ten different published painting recommendations from straight out of the bottle to complex color mixes. Floquil 1 part D&H Caboose Red; 3 parts Southern Freight Car Brown Floquil Erie Lackawanna Maroon with a little Reefer White Floquil 1 part Caboose Red; 4 parts Boxcar Red Floquil Southern Freight Car Brown Floquil 9 parts Tuscan Red; 1 part Boxcar Red; 1 part Reefer White Floquil ATSF Mineral Brown ModelFlex Maroon Tuscan Oxide Red ModelFlex Dark Tuscan Oxide Red Poly Scale 1 part Special Oxide Red; 3 parts Zinc Chromate Primer Scalecoat II 1 part Tuscan Red; 1 part Boxcar Red These colors range from relatively brown to oxide red, so some of them are clearly the wrong color for CB&Q. I matched some paint chips from a depot that was last painted in the 1950s, but the resulting color seemed to have too much zinc chromate and not enough red. Probably the color shift on the paint chips was from sun exposure over 50 years, and I don't have any idea what a newly painted depot or freight car looked like in 1953. The mix that matched the paint chips using Poly Scale is: 5 parts Zinc Chromate Primer 2 parts ATSF Red 2 parts Special Oxide Red Was the same paint use on structures also used on wood sided freight cars before the Q got their first all steel Class XM-32 box cars? I have several double and shingle sheathed box cars ready for paint, and I'm still undecided about what to use. Does anyone out there have an authentic color chip to match? Nelson Moyer -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Ed Hawkins Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 12:11 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Freight Car Brown On Jun 7, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Brian Rochon wrote: I notice that all of the listed colors show a start date of 1944. DidBrian, Based on the ACF paint samples from 1931 to 1952, there was a general trend from darker, browner, and flatter paints during the 1930s to the early 1940s to freight car colors that were lighter, with more red, and more glossy in the immediate postwar years and into the 1950s. There were some exceptions to this rule with UP being one example that used an oxide color in the late 1930s. Several ACF Santa Fe "Mineral Brown" paint samples for cars built during the 1930s to 1944 were quite dark brown and flat. Comparing to Tru-Color Paint #19, they are a perfect match. By the late 1940s ATSF Mineral Brown had changed considerably with more of a red-brown hue. Around the end of World War II the paint manufacturers apparently reformulated paints and the names often used "synthetic" in the description. Regards, Ed Hawkins |
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Nelson
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The problem with color formulas is that Floquil is notorious for color changes to the colors over the years. I have 2 or 3 bottles of some Floquil colors and there are some radical differences in color! Drift cards or paint swatches are really the only way to go, and mix whatever you have on hand to match the color sample. This is made more challenging because some paints (esp Floquil) change apparent (reflective) color as they dry and cure. I made a styrene card with about 20 different box car reds that I hang on the door next to my paint booth. This at least gives me an idea of where to start when trying to mix up colors to match a prototype. Tim O'Connor ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nelson Moyer" <ku0a@...> Floquil 1 part D&H Caboose Red; 3 parts Southern Freight Car Brown Floquil Erie Lackawanna Maroon with a little Reefer White Floquil 1 part Caboose Red; 4 parts Boxcar Red Floquil Southern Freight Car Brown Floquil 9 parts Tuscan Red; 1 part Boxcar Red; 1 part Reefer White Floquil ATSF Mineral Brown ModelFlex Maroon Tuscan Oxide Red ModelFlex Dark Tuscan Oxide Red Poly Scale 1 part Special Oxide Red; 3 parts Zinc Chromate Primer Scalecoat II 1 part Tuscan Red; 1 part Boxcar Red |
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naptownprr
Brian,
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Pennsy was also an exception. Like UP, PRR used an oxide color during the 30s and 40s which became darker, more reddish and browner during the postwar period. Jim Hunter Quoting Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...>:
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Ed Hawkins
On Jun 8, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:
<snip> Does anyone out there have an authentic colorNelson, The ACF bills of materials, which are kept at the St. Louis Mercantile Library, have paint samples for two orders of CB&Q ballast cars. These are open for viewing by anyone wanting to visit the facility. Lot 1789, 220500-220599, built 4-38 Lot 2215, 221000-221249, built 10-41 While very similar in appearance, the two samples aren't identical. The Floquil formula of 3 parts D&H Red & 1 part Southern Freight Car Brown came from Pat Wider, Ray Long, and me when we matched the colors more than 20 years ago. This formula has become useless because Floquil doesn't maintain consistence in their colors from one batch to the next. I have an ACF sample from lot 2215. Based on paints available today, I can say that it's in between colors offered by Tru-Color Paint. I have not looked at Scalecoat recently. The ACF paint sample is somewhat darker and more brown than Tru-Color #82 Rich Oxide Brown but not nearly so dark & brown as #19 ATSF Brown. My best guess is that by experimenting with various proportions of these two colors that a match could be made. Regards, Ed Hawkins |
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Just FYI there are quite a few custom Scalecoat and Scalecoat II "box car red" colors
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available from Des Plaines Hobbies and others. Add that to all the Star, Accupaint, and Tru-Color paint colors and there have got to be at least 40 or 50 commercial 'oxide red' colors -- chances are good that if you invest in a good collection of paint colors that the color match you need is either on the shelf already, or you have a very close match, right out of the bottle. And if you're mixing your own, make sure you have some purple-ish-maroon on hand. A little maroon does amazing things to oxide red. :-) Tim O'Connor ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@...> Nelson, The ACF bills of materials, which are kept at the St. Louis Mercantile Library, have paint samples for two orders of CB&Q ballast cars. These are open for viewing by anyone wanting to visit the facility. Lot 1789, 220500-220599, built 4-38 Lot 2215, 221000-221249, built 10-41 While very similar in appearance, the two samples aren't identical. The Floquil formula of 3 parts D&H Red & 1 part Southern Freight Car Brown came from Pat Wider, Ray Long, and me when we matched the colors more than 20 years ago. This formula has become useless because Floquil doesn't maintain consistence in their colors from one batch to the next. I have an ACF sample from lot 2215. Based on paints available today, I can say that it's in between colors offered by Tru-Color Paint. I have not looked at Scalecoat recently. The ACF paint sample is somewhat darker and more brown than Tru-Color #82 Rich Oxide Brown but not nearly so dark & brown as #19 ATSF Brown. My best guess is that by experimenting with various proportions of these two colors that a match could be made. Regards, Ed Hawkins |
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Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
Ed and Tim,
Too bad I didn't ask my question before last weekend, because I was in St. Louis, and I could have gone to the library. I made 1x6 in. styrene color chips of all of my stock colors and custom freight car mixes for the house cars and foreign cars I have. I primed the styrene with medium gray before spraying the color coat. I've made 29 color chips so far for box car colors and mixes using Floquil, Scalecoat, Scalecoat II, ModelFlex, and Poly Scale. I need to go back to St. Louis and take my color chips plus the depot paint chips and see what I can learn. I was out of the hobby when Accupaint was available, so I don't have any. I haven't looked at Tru-Color paint colors, so I need to do that. Nelson |
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Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
Tim – Many years ago I asked a Floquil representative how they matched their colors. He said they matched each new batch against the last. - Al Westerfield
From: timboconnor@... Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 1:14 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Brown Nelson The problem with color formulas is that Floquil is notorious for color changes to the colors over the years. I have 2 or 3 bottles of some Floquil colors and there are some radical differences in color! Drift cards or paint swatches are really the only way to go, and mix whatever you have on hand to match the color sample. This is made more challenging because some paints (esp Floquil) change apparent (reflective) color as they dry and cure. I made a styrene card with about 20 different box car reds that I hang on the door next to my paint booth. This at least gives me an idea of where to start when trying to mix up colors to match a prototype. Tim O'Connor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nelson Moyer" <mailto:ku0a%40mchsi.com> Floquil 1 part D&H Caboose Red; 3 parts Southern Freight Car Brown Floquil Erie Lackawanna Maroon with a little Reefer White Floquil 1 part Caboose Red; 4 parts Boxcar Red Floquil Southern Freight Car Brown Floquil 9 parts Tuscan Red; 1 part Boxcar Red; 1 part Reefer White Floquil ATSF Mineral Brown ModelFlex Maroon Tuscan Oxide Red ModelFlex Dark Tuscan Oxide Red Poly Scale 1 part Special Oxide Red; 3 parts Zinc Chromate Primer Scalecoat II 1 part Tuscan Red; 1 part Boxcar Red [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Brian Rochon
Thank you Ed.
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Brian Rochon ----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Hawkins<mailto:hawk0621@...> To: STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Freight Car Brown On Jun 7, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Brian Rochon wrote: > I notice that all of the listed colors show a start date of 1944. Did > these railroads all change their color formulas in that year or would > they be accurate for earlier years? I model 1943, so that means > freight cars last painted as far back as the late 1930's? Brian, Based on the ACF paint samples from 1931 to 1952, there was a general trend from darker, browner, and flatter paints during the 1930s to the early 1940s to freight car colors that were lighter, with more red, and more glossy in the immediate postwar years and into the 1950s. There were some exceptions to this rule with UP being one example that used an oxide color in the late 1930s. Several ACF Santa Fe "Mineral Brown" paint samples for cars built during the 1930s to 1944 were quite dark brown and flat. Comparing to Tru-Color Paint #19, they are a perfect match. By the late 1940s ATSF Mineral Brown had changed considerably with more of a red-brown hue. Around the end of World War II the paint manufacturers apparently reformulated paints and the names often used "synthetic" in the description. Regards, Ed Hawkins |
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