Date
1 - 11 of 11
ATSF 213612 raised roof box car...
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Jack Burgess <jack@...>
The Pacific Locomotive Association has in it collection box car ATSF 213612.
It is described as a 40' single-sheathed composite-construction car with a raised roof. It is in need of restoration and currently being used for storage. The Collections Committee has recommended that it be removed from the collection. One of the arguments against getting rid of it is it's "historic" value. However, members discussing this issue online haven't been able to determine if it is truly "historic" or one of many similar cars in museums around the nation. Anyone have any information on this car? Class? When the raised roof might have been installed? More importantly, anyone know of any similar cars already in collections anywhere? The meeting is tonight, 7:30 pm Pacific Time. So...any information that can be provided is needed before the meeting... Jack Burgess Newark, CA |
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soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
--- In STMFC@..., "Jack Burgess" <jack@...> wrote:
I'm not aware of any in the Midwest. Dennis |
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Richard Hendrickson
On Jun 15, 2012, at 2:37 PM, Jack Burgess wrote:
The Pacific Locomotive Association has in it collection box carJack, ATSF 213612 was a Bx-12 class box car, one of 3,500 single sheathed cars originally built in 1930 to a modified American Railway Association standard design. From 1940 to 1944 most of these cars (more than 3,200 cars, though records vary regarding the exact number) were rebuilt in the Santa Fe shops to increase their height by 12 inches. New rectangular panel steel roofs and (later) steel running boards were applied, as well as AB air brake equipment and other minor improvements. This work was carried out so that the Santa Fe could obtain cars with interior capacity similar to those of new box cars at a time when the supply of new cars was severely restricted owing to wartime steel shortages. These rebuilt Bs-12s with their extended roofs and single wood sheathed sides were quite distinctive and unique to the Santa Fe. What is more, they lasted in revenue service much longer than other single sheathed cars built in the '20s and early '30s. I believe this car is the last of a large class that is certainly historically significant; to the best of my knowledge, no other raised-roof Bx-12s survive in any other museum collections. It would be a great shame for the museum to get rid of it, especially if it is to be scrapped. I am attaching a photo of one when in good condition in revenue service; Col. Chet McCoid photo, Raleigh NC 9-8-51, Bob's Photo Service collection. I hopoe this reaches you in time to be of some use. Richard Hendrickson  |
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Jack Burgess <jack@...>
Thanks Richard...I was hoping that you would chime in! I'll pass it along.
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Jack <-----Original Message-----
<From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of <Richard Hendrickson <Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 6:01 PM <To: STMFC@... <Subject: Re: [STMFC] ATSF 213612 raised roof box car... < <On Jun 15, 2012, at 2:37 PM, Jack Burgess wrote: < <> The Pacific Locomotive Association has in it collection box car ATSF <> 213612. <> It is described as a 40' single-sheathed composite-construction car <> with a raised roof. It is in need of restoration and currently being <> used for storage. The Collections Committee has recommended that it be <> removed from the collection. One of the arguments against getting rid <> of it is it's "historic" value. However, members discussing this issue <> online haven't been able to determine if it is truly "historic" or one <> of many similar cars in museums around the nation. <> <> Anyone have any information on this car? Class? When the raised roof <> might have been installed? <> <> More importantly, anyone know of any similar cars already in <> collections anywhere? <> <> The meeting is tonight, 7:30 pm Pacific Time. So...any information <> that can be provided is needed before the meeting... <> < <Jack, ATSF 213612 was a Bx-12 class box car, one of 3,500 single <sheathed cars originally built in 1930 to a modified American Railway <Association standard design. From 1940 to 1944 most of these cars (more <than 3,200 cars, though records vary regarding the exact <number) were rebuilt in the Santa Fe shops to increase their height by <12 inches. New rectangular panel steel roofs and (later) steel running <boards were applied, as well as AB air brake equipment and other minor <improvements. This work was carried out so that the Santa Fe could <obtain cars with interior capacity similar to those of new box cars at a <time when the supply of new cars was severely restricted owing to <wartime steel shortages. These rebuilt Bs-12s with their extended roofs <and single wood sheathed sides were quite distinctive and unique to the <Santa Fe. What is more, they lasted in revenue service much longer than <other single sheathed cars built in the '20s and early '30s. < <I believe this car is the last of a large class that is certainly <historically significant; to the best of my knowledge, no other raised- <roof Bx-12s survive in any other museum collections. It would be a <great shame for the museum to get rid of it, especially if it is to be <scrapped. < <I am attaching a photo of one when in good condition in revenue service; <Col. Chet McCoid photo, Raleigh NC 9-8-51, Bob's Photo Service <collection. < <I hopoe this reaches you in time to be of some use. < <Richard Hendrickson < < < <[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] < < < <------------------------------------ < <Yahoo! Groups Links < < < |
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maynard stowe
Jack,There are at least 2 others of this class not in museums that I know of. One is near China Lake, CA on the ground looked to be in reasonably good shape as far as the body is concerned, and the other is in a lot in Amarillo, TX in poor shape also sitting on the ground to the north of the BNSF yards there. (It shows up quite clearly on Google map's satallite views.)
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Maynard Stowe --- On Fri, 6/15/12, Jack Burgess <jack@...> wrote:
From: Jack Burgess <jack@...> Subject: RE: [STMFC] ATSF 213612 raised roof box car... To: STMFC@... Date: Friday, June 15, 2012, 9:06 PM Thanks Richard...I was hoping that you would chime in! I'll pass it along. Jack <-----Original Message----- <From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of <Richard Hendrickson <Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 6:01 PM <To: STMFC@... <Subject: Re: [STMFC] ATSF 213612 raised roof box car... < <On Jun 15, 2012, at 2:37 PM, Jack Burgess wrote: < <> The Pacific Locomotive Association has in it collection box car ATSF <> 213612. <> It is described as a 40' single-sheathed composite-construction car <> with a raised roof. It is in need of restoration and currently being <> used for storage. The Collections Committee has recommended that it be <> removed from the collection. One of the arguments against getting rid <> of it is it's "historic" value. However, members discussing this issue <> online haven't been able to determine if it is truly "historic" or one <> of many similar cars in museums around the nation. <> <> Anyone have any information on this car? Class? When the raised roof <> might have been installed? <> <> More importantly, anyone know of any similar cars already in <> collections anywhere? <> <> The meeting is tonight, 7:30 pm Pacific Time. So...any information <> that can be provided is needed before the meeting... <> < <Jack, ATSF 213612 was a Bx-12 class box car, one of 3,500 single <sheathed cars originally built in 1930 to a modified American Railway <Association standard design. From 1940 to 1944 most of these cars (more <than 3,200 cars, though records vary regarding the exact <number) were rebuilt in the Santa Fe shops to increase their height by <12 inches. New rectangular panel steel roofs and (later) steel running <boards were applied, as well as AB air brake equipment and other minor <improvements. This work was carried out so that the Santa Fe could <obtain cars with interior capacity similar to those of new box cars at a <time when the supply of new cars was severely restricted owing to <wartime steel shortages. These rebuilt Bs-12s with their extended roofs <and single wood sheathed sides were quite distinctive and unique to the <Santa Fe. What is more, they lasted in revenue service much longer than <other single sheathed cars built in the '20s and early '30s. < <I believe this car is the last of a large class that is certainly <historically significant; to the best of my knowledge, no other raised- <roof Bx-12s survive in any other museum collections. It would be a <great shame for the museum to get rid of it, especially if it is to be <scrapped. < <I am attaching a photo of one when in good condition in revenue service; <Col. Chet McCoid photo, Raleigh NC 9-8-51, Bob's Photo Service <collection. < <I hopoe this reaches you in time to be of some use. < <Richard Hendrickson < < < <[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] < < < <------------------------------------ < <Yahoo! Groups Links < < < [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
The Amarillo car: Is it the one south of NE 3rd Avenue, between N Cleveland
and N Arthur? -- Thanks! Brian Paul Ehni From: maynard stowe <ctsper1947@...> Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Date: Friday, June 15, 2012 8:52 PM To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Subject: RE: [STMFC] ATSF 213612 raised roof box car... Jack,There are at least 2 others of this class not in museums that I know of. One is near China Lake, CA on the ground looked to be in reasonably good shape as far as the body is concerned, and the other is in a lot in Amarillo, TX in poor shape also sitting on the ground to the north of the BNSF yards there. (It shows up quite clearly on Google map's satallite views.) Maynard Stowe |
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Jack Burgess <jack@...>
Thanks Maynard...I'll pass it along.
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Jack <-----Original Message-----
<From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of <maynard stowe <Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 6:53 PM <To: STMFC@... <Subject: RE: [STMFC] ATSF 213612 raised roof box car... < <Jack,There are at least 2 others of this class not in museums that I <know of. One is near China Lake, CA on the ground looked to be in <reasonably good shape as far as the body is concerned, and the other is <in a lot in Amarillo, TX in poor shape also sitting on the ground to the <north of the BNSF yards there. (It shows up quite clearly on Google <map's satallite views.) Maynard Stowe < < < <--- On Fri, 6/15/12, Jack Burgess <jack@...> wrote: < <From: Jack Burgess <jack@...> <Subject: RE: [STMFC] ATSF 213612 raised roof box car... <To: STMFC@... <Date: Friday, June 15, 2012, 9:06 PM < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < Thanks Richard...I was hoping that you would chime in! I'll pass <it along. < < < <Jack < < < <<-----Original Message----- < <<From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of < <<Richard Hendrickson < <<Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 6:01 PM < <<To: STMFC@... < <<Subject: Re: [STMFC] ATSF 213612 raised roof box car... < << < <<On Jun 15, 2012, at 2:37 PM, Jack Burgess wrote: < << < <<> The Pacific Locomotive Association has in it collection box car ATSF < <<> 213612. < <<> It is described as a 40' single-sheathed composite-construction car < <<> with a raised roof. It is in need of restoration and currently being < <<> used for storage. The Collections Committee has recommended that it <be < <<> removed from the collection. One of the arguments against getting rid < <<> of it is it's "historic" value. However, members discussing this <issue < <<> online haven't been able to determine if it is truly "historic" or <one < <<> of many similar cars in museums around the nation. < <<> < <<> Anyone have any information on this car? Class? When the raised roof < <<> might have been installed? < <<> < <<> More importantly, anyone know of any similar cars already in < <<> collections anywhere? < <<> < <<> The meeting is tonight, 7:30 pm Pacific Time. So...any information < <<> that can be provided is needed before the meeting... < <<> < << < <<Jack, ATSF 213612 was a Bx-12 class box car, one of 3,500 single < <<sheathed cars originally built in 1930 to a modified American Railway < <<Association standard design. From 1940 to 1944 most of these cars <(more < <<than 3,200 cars, though records vary regarding the exact < <<number) were rebuilt in the Santa Fe shops to increase their height by < <<12 inches. New rectangular panel steel roofs and (later) steel running < <<boards were applied, as well as AB air brake equipment and other minor < <<improvements. This work was carried out so that the Santa Fe could < <<obtain cars with interior capacity similar to those of new box cars at <a < <<time when the supply of new cars was severely restricted owing to < <<wartime steel shortages. These rebuilt Bs-12s with their extended <roofs < <<and single wood sheathed sides were quite distinctive and unique to the < <<Santa Fe. What is more, they lasted in revenue service much longer <than < <<other single sheathed cars built in the '20s and early '30s. < << < <<I believe this car is the last of a large class that is certainly < <<historically significant; to the best of my knowledge, no other raised- < <<roof Bx-12s survive in any other museum collections. It would be a < <<great shame for the museum to get rid of it, especially if it is to be < <<scrapped. < << < <<I am attaching a photo of one when in good condition in revenue <service; < <<Col. Chet McCoid photo, Raleigh NC 9-8-51, Bob's Photo Service < <<collection. < << < <<I hopoe this reaches you in time to be of some use. < << < <<Richard Hendrickson < << < << < << < << < << < << < << < <<------------------------------------ < << < <<Yahoo! Groups Links < << < << < << < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < <------------------------------------ < <Yahoo! Groups Links < < < |
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Jack Burgess <jack@...>
Members of the Pacific Locomotive Association voted yesterday evening to
retain ATSF 213612, in part due to the information members of this group provided. One of the backers of keeping the car reported to me: " Thanks in no small part to your tremendous efforts in nearly-instantaneous freight car historical research, only 14 of 40 voting members present at the meeting voted for the deaccession of ATSF 213612. (A 2/3 majority was required for the deaccession to pass.) I had given the meeting a short "chalk talk" and 1-page handout on the car, emphasizing that it was much rarer than the Collections Committee first thought, and emphasizing its age and historical importance." Thanks to all who contributed information about these cars. Jack Burgess |
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maynard stowe
Brian--Yes thats the one. I have a poor photo that I took late in the day with the sun too directly behind it a couple of years ago on the way to the SPHTS convention.Maynard
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--- On Fri, 6/15/12, Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...> wrote:
From: Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...> Subject: Re: [STMFC] ATSF 213612 raised roof box car... To: "STMFC List" <STMFC@...> Date: Friday, June 15, 2012, 10:10 PM The Amarillo car: Is it the one south of NE 3rd Avenue, between N Cleveland and N Arthur? -- Thanks! Brian Paul Ehni From: maynard stowe <ctsper1947@...> Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Date: Friday, June 15, 2012 8:52 PM To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Subject: RE: [STMFC] ATSF 213612 raised roof box car... Jack,There are at least 2 others of this class not in museums that I know of. One is near China Lake, CA on the ground looked to be in reasonably good shape as far as the body is concerned, and the other is in a lot in Amarillo, TX in poor shape also sitting on the ground to the north of the BNSF yards there. (It shows up quite clearly on Google map's satallite views.) Maynard Stowe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Richard Hendrickson
On Jun 16, 2012, at 7:43 AM, Jack Burgess wrote:
Members of the Pacific Locomotive Association voted yesterday evening toJack, that's good news. I'm glad I was able to contribute some useful information. I'd love to see that car restored, and I'll be happy to help out with photos and documentation should such an effort get underway. Richard |
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Jack Burgess <jack@...>
Unfortunately, Pacific Locomotive Association hasn't devoted the needed
attention or money to restoring very many freight cars...locomotives and passenger cars get higher priority. But the discussion about this car apparently generated interest in this car and there is a lot of interest in being able to replicate historic freight trains for special occasions. Maybe the fact that this is a unique car will get some interest/money allocated to the project to restore it. But we certainly learned of the depth of expertise in the STMFC group toward providing the needed information for such projects... Jack <On Jun 16, 2012, at 7:43 AM, Jack Burgess wrote: < <> Members of the Pacific Locomotive Association voted yesterday evening <> to retain ATSF 213612, in part due to the information members of this <> group provided. One of the backers of keeping the car reported to me: <> <> " Thanks in no small part to your tremendous efforts in nearly- <> instantaneous freight car historical research, only 14 of 40 voting <> members present at the meeting voted for the deaccession of ATSF <> 213612. (A 2/3 majority was required for the deaccession to pass.) I <> had given the meeting a short "chalk talk" and 1-page handout on the <> car, emphasizing that it was much rarer than the Collections Committee <> first thought, and emphasizing its age and historical importance." <> <Jack, that's good news. I'm glad I was able to contribute some useful <information. I'd love to see that car restored, and I'll be happy to <help out with photos and documentation should such an effort get <underway. < <Richard < < < < <------------------------------------ < <Yahoo! Groups Links < < < |
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