New Shapes to come


Ed <nprybiged@...>
 

We were talking about having Evergreen,or someone make some new
shape materials.

Well I'm going to dive off on the high board and hope someone filled
the pool.

How about making Styrene Rail, yes I said Rail, in code 100, 83 and
55. Think about it. How many times have you seen photos of the Right
of Way with, depending on the era, 38' sections or welded rail along
side of the track awaiting to be rerailed, or stacks of rail stored
in a freight yard.

This also opens up the posiblety of a welded rail train. Say 15 old
wooden side dump cars with the ends removed and one or two levels of
Rail. Now, I think, if you ahcor the rail in the middle it should
bend ok without derailing the cars.

So if we can but scale HO Tie plates and Rail Joiners in Styrene why
not Scale Rail. I know it can be done just look at the pieces of iron
work that Plastruct markets.

OK, how about your thoughts.

Ed Ursem


John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

Ed,



I do think there would be use for flexible, plastic rail for scenery and
loads.



Another possible use for flexible rail would be aprons for car
floats/ferry's. Some years ago another local railroader and myself discussed
the possibility of mounting a railcar ferry on springs so it would have to
loaded properly to prevent rolling the boat too far. Well, that would
require a lot of engineering and the biggest problem would be an apron that
would flex realistically. I have thought about it on again and off again and
while I think with enough joints the apron could be made to flax but the
rails would keep it stiff. I have done some resin casting and there were
times I messed up the ratio and ended up with some very nice looking but
very flexible castings. I thought if I could cast flexible rail... The fact
that the track couldn't supply power isn't a problem as idler cars were
generally used to keep loco's off the apron.



John Hagen



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Ed
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:14 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] New Shapes to come





We were talking about having Evergreen,or someone make some new
shape materials.

Well I'm going to dive off on the high board and hope someone filled
the pool.

How about making Styrene Rail, yes I said Rail, in code 100, 83 and
55. Think about it. How many times have you seen photos of the Right
of Way with, depending on the era, 38' sections or welded rail along
side of the track awaiting to be rerailed, or stacks of rail stored
in a freight yard.

This also opens up the posiblety of a welded rail train. Say 15 old
wooden side dump cars with the ends removed and one or two levels of
Rail. Now, I think, if you ahcor the rail in the middle it should
bend ok without derailing the cars.

So if we can but scale HO Tie plates and Rail Joiners in Styrene why
not Scale Rail. I know it can be done just look at the pieces of iron
work that Plastruct markets.

OK, how about your thoughts.

Ed Ursem


John Degnan <Scaler164@...>
 

Interesting idea. I'll voard this train for some code 83 and code 70 styrene rail in lengths of 3' or longer. Anything shorter defeats the purpose.


John Degnan
Scaler164@...
Scaler187@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Ed
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 06:14 PM
Subject: [STMFC] New Shapes to come


We were talking about having Evergreen,or someone make some new
shape materials.

Well I'm going to dive off on the high board and hope someone filled
the pool.

How about making Styrene Rail, yes I said Rail, in code 100, 83 and
55. Think about it. How many times have you seen photos of the Right
of Way with, depending on the era, 38' sections or welded rail along
side of the track awaiting to be rerailed, or stacks of rail stored
in a freight yard.

This also opens up the posiblety of a welded rail train. Say 15 old
wooden side dump cars with the ends removed and one or two levels of
Rail. Now, I think, if you ahcor the rail in the middle it should
bend ok without derailing the cars.

So if we can but scale HO Tie plates and Rail Joiners in Styrene why
not Scale Rail. I know it can be done just look at the pieces of iron
work that Plastruct markets.

OK, how about your thoughts.

Ed Ursem


Ed <nprybiged@...>
 

John

I don't think Evergreen would be susceptible to anything longer
than 36" as this would present shipping and displaying problems.

I have taken two structural shapes and put them together buy
cutting the ends at a 45 degree angle and glude them together.
After being painted you can not see the seam.

John, I agree with you, I would like to see all the codes done
but looking at it from the business side, if I'm Evergreen, I would
go with the most popular sizes. Then if they sell good I would
consider doing more sizes.

Thanks for your responce John
Ed

--- In STMFC@..., "John Degnan" <Scaler164@...> wrote:

Interesting idea. I'll voard this train for some code 83 and code 70 styrene rail in lengths of 3' or longer. Anything shorter defeats the purpose.


John Degnan
Scaler164@...
Scaler187@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Ed
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 06:14 PM
Subject: [STMFC] New Shapes to come


We were talking about having Evergreen,or someone make some new
shape materials.

Well I'm going to dive off on the high board and hope someone filled
the pool.

How about making Styrene Rail, yes I said Rail, in code 100, 83 and
55. Think about it. How many times have you seen photos of the Right
of Way with, depending on the era, 38' sections or welded rail along
side of the track awaiting to be rerailed, or stacks of rail stored
in a freight yard.

This also opens up the posiblety of a welded rail train. Say 15 old
wooden side dump cars with the ends removed and one or two levels of
Rail. Now, I think, if you ahcor the rail in the middle it should
bend ok without derailing the cars.

So if we can but scale HO Tie plates and Rail Joiners in Styrene why
not Scale Rail. I know it can be done just look at the pieces of iron
work that Plastruct markets.

OK, how about your thoughts.

Ed Ursem

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


midrly <midrly@...>
 

There are many possibilities for the use of styrene rail. Not only for D&H modellers of the steam era that will have CWR next the running rails to be put in track (did any other road use much CWR in the STMFC timeframe?).

Handlaid turnouts and bridge decks (both actually relevant to STMFC'ers) could finally have guardrails that would not reveal bare nickle silver tops after track cleaning. Some railway structures used old rail as structural steel components instead of I- or H-section beams, another advantage of styrene rail shapes for the modeller.

National Steel Car had an in-plant service gon that used light rail (I have a photo of this car), probably 80# or lighter, as the posts supporting the sides of the car. This car also used the lowest third portion of their NSC-1 ends. Tricky to build out of nickle-silver rail, but easy in styrene. Maybe some roads used rail for uprights in gons as well?

As for rail length, very common in our era were 33' rails in many railways' main tracks. They fit nicely in the 36' i.l. gons and flats used to transport rail from the mill to customer. 39' rail was coming into use, but 33' rails were still very common. I don't recall any 39' rail being in use before 1910. To add to the mix, some roads chopped 18" off each battered end of rails, producing 36', 30', and 27' rails in the process. So cutting what length you want out of 36" long styrene shapes would be best for the modeller. But I'd personally appreciate even 12" lengths of Code 70/55 rail from Evergreen.

But modelling various rail-built bumpers, parking lot curbs, etc, is best done with metal rail for durability. Errant elbows do a lot of damage on a layout.

And I'll echo Dennis Storzek's thoughts on smaller-section styrene strip, such as .010" square. Maybe some 5 thou strip...please??

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "Ed" <nprybiged@...> wrote:

We were talking about having Evergreen,or someone make some new
shape materials.

Well I'm going to dive off on the high board and hope someone filled
the pool.

How about making Styrene Rail, yes I said Rail, in code 100, 83 and
55. Think about it. How many times have you seen photos of the Right
of Way with, depending on the era, 38' sections or welded rail along
side of the track awaiting to be rerailed, or stacks of rail stored
in a freight yard.

This also opens up the posiblety of a welded rail train. Say 15 old
wooden side dump cars with the ends removed and one or two levels of
Rail. Now, I think, if you ahcor the rail in the middle it should
bend ok without derailing the cars.

So if we can but scale HO Tie plates and Rail Joiners in Styrene why
not Scale Rail. I know it can be done just look at the pieces of iron
work that Plastruct markets.

OK, how about your thoughts.

Ed Ursem


StephenK
 

The real answer to guard rails that don't reveal bare nickle silver would be code 82 (or Code 80) size rail. Paint it whatever color you use, and it would be slightly lower than the running rail--and the cleaner block would pass over it without removing the paint.

Steve Kay

--- In STMFC@..., "midrly" <midrly@...> wrote:

There are many possibilities for the use of styrene rail. Not only for D&H modellers of the steam era that will have CWR next the running rails to be put in track (did any other road use much CWR in the STMFC timeframe?).

Handlaid turnouts and bridge decks (both actually relevant to STMFC'ers) could finally have guardrails that would not reveal bare nickle silver tops after track cleaning. Some railway structures used old rail as structural steel components instead of I- or H-section beams, another advantage of styrene rail shapes for the modeller.

National Steel Car had an in-plant service gon that used light rail (I have a photo of this car), probably 80# or lighter, as the posts supporting the sides of the car. This car also used the lowest third portion of their NSC-1 ends. Tricky to build out of nickle-silver rail, but easy in styrene. Maybe some roads used rail for uprights in gons as well?

As for rail length, very common in our era were 33' rails in many railways' main tracks. They fit nicely in the 36' i.l. gons and flats used to transport rail from the mill to customer. 39' rail was coming into use, but 33' rails were still very common. I don't recall any 39' rail being in use before 1910. To add to the mix, some roads chopped 18" off each battered end of rails, producing 36', 30', and 27' rails in the process. So cutting what length you want out of 36" long styrene shapes would be best for the modeller. But I'd personally appreciate even 12" lengths of Code 70/55 rail from Evergreen.

But modelling various rail-built bumpers, parking lot curbs, etc, is best done with metal rail for durability. Errant elbows do a lot of damage on a layout.

And I'll echo Dennis Storzek's thoughts on smaller-section styrene strip, such as .010" square. Maybe some 5 thou strip...please??

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "Ed" <nprybiged@> wrote:

We were talking about having Evergreen,or someone make some new
shape materials.

Well I'm going to dive off on the high board and hope someone filled
the pool.

How about making Styrene Rail, yes I said Rail, in code 100, 83 and
55. Think about it. How many times have you seen photos of the Right
of Way with, depending on the era, 38' sections or welded rail along
side of the track awaiting to be rerailed, or stacks of rail stored
in a freight yard.

This also opens up the posiblety of a welded rail train. Say 15 old
wooden side dump cars with the ends removed and one or two levels of
Rail. Now, I think, if you ahcor the rail in the middle it should
bend ok without derailing the cars.

So if we can but scale HO Tie plates and Rail Joiners in Styrene why
not Scale Rail. I know it can be done just look at the pieces of iron
work that Plastruct markets.

OK, how about your thoughts.

Ed Ursem


Bill Schneider
 

I suppose that I shouldn’t point out that the cleaner block would also remove paint from the styrene, leaving the tops whi.... never mind.

Seriously, I guess I could see some limited uses, but like Jerry it wouldn’t be high on my product investment list... However, I’ve been wrong before. I think... ;>)

Bill Schneider

From: StephenK
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 2:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: New Shapes to come


The real answer to guard rails that don't reveal bare nickle silver would be code 82 (or Code 80) size rail. Paint it whatever color you use, and it would be slightly lower than the running rail--and the cleaner block would pass over it without removing the paint.

Steve Kay

--- In mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, "midrly" <midrly@...> wrote:

There are many possibilities for the use of styrene rail. Not only for D&H modellers of the steam era that will have CWR next the running rails to be put in track (did any other road use much CWR in the STMFC timeframe?).

Handlaid turnouts and bridge decks (both actually relevant to STMFC'ers) could finally have guardrails that would not reveal bare nickle silver tops after track cleaning. Some railway structures used old rail as structural steel components instead of I- or H-section beams, another advantage of styrene rail shapes for the modeller.

National Steel Car had an in-plant service gon that used light rail (I have a photo of this car), probably 80# or lighter, as the posts supporting the sides of the car. This car also used the lowest third portion of their NSC-1 ends. Tricky to build out of nickle-silver rail, but easy in styrene. Maybe some roads used rail for uprights in gons as well?

As for rail length, very common in our era were 33' rails in many railways' main tracks. They fit nicely in the 36' i.l. gons and flats used to transport rail from the mill to customer. 39' rail was coming into use, but 33' rails were still very common. I don't recall any 39' rail being in use before 1910. To add to the mix, some roads chopped 18" off each battered end of rails, producing 36', 30', and 27' rails in the process. So cutting what length you want out of 36" long styrene shapes would be best for the modeller. But I'd personally appreciate even 12" lengths of Code 70/55 rail from Evergreen.

But modelling various rail-built bumpers, parking lot curbs, etc, is best done with metal rail for durability. Errant elbows do a lot of damage on a layout.

And I'll echo Dennis Storzek's thoughts on smaller-section styrene strip, such as .010" square. Maybe some 5 thou strip...please??

Steve Lucas.

--- In mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, "Ed" <nprybiged@> wrote:

We were talking about having Evergreen,or someone make some new
shape materials.

Well I'm going to dive off on the high board and hope someone filled
the pool.

How about making Styrene Rail, yes I said Rail, in code 100, 83 and
55. Think about it. How many times have you seen photos of the Right
of Way with, depending on the era, 38' sections or welded rail along
side of the track awaiting to be rerailed, or stacks of rail stored
in a freight yard.

This also opens up the posiblety of a welded rail train. Say 15 old
wooden side dump cars with the ends removed and one or two levels of
Rail. Now, I think, if you ahcor the rail in the middle it should
bend ok without derailing the cars.

So if we can but scale HO Tie plates and Rail Joiners in Styrene why
not Scale Rail. I know it can be done just look at the pieces of iron
work that Plastruct markets.

OK, how about your thoughts.

Ed Ursem


john.allyn@...
 

How about simply taking a few thousandths of an inch off the bottom of the guard rail with a  file?  As Jerry Glow has correctly noted there are a lot of products that just aren't commercially feasible.


John B. Allyn

----- Original Message -----
From: "StephenK" <thekays100@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 1:19:41 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: New Shapes to come

 




The real answer to guard rails that don't reveal bare nickle silver would be code 82 (or Code 80) size rail. Paint it whatever color you use, and it would be slightly lower than the running rail--and the cleaner block would pass over it without removing the paint.

Steve Kay

--- In STMFC@... , "midrly" <midrly@...> wrote:

There are many possibilities for the use of styrene rail. Not only for D&H modellers of the steam era that will have CWR next the running rails to be put in track (did any other road use much CWR in the STMFC timeframe?).

Handlaid turnouts and bridge decks (both actually relevant to STMFC'ers) could finally have guardrails that would not reveal bare nickle silver tops after track cleaning. Some railway structures used old rail as structural steel components instead of I- or H-section beams, another advantage of styrene rail shapes for the modeller.

National Steel Car had an in-plant service gon that used light rail (I have a photo of this car), probably 80# or lighter, as the posts supporting the sides of the car. This car also used the lowest third portion of their NSC-1 ends. Tricky to build out of nickle-silver rail, but easy in styrene. Maybe some roads used rail for uprights in gons as well?

As for rail length, very common in our era were 33' rails in many railways' main tracks. They fit nicely in the 36' i.l. gons and flats used to transport rail from the mill to customer. 39' rail was coming into use, but 33' rails were still very common. I don't recall any 39' rail being in use before 1910. To add to the mix, some roads chopped 18" off each battered end of rails, producing 36', 30', and 27' rails in the process. So cutting what length you want out of 36" long styrene shapes would be best for the modeller. But I'd personally appreciate even 12" lengths of Code 70/55 rail from Evergreen.

But modelling various rail-built bumpers, parking lot curbs, etc, is best done with metal rail for durability. Errant elbows do a lot of damage on a layout.

And I'll echo Dennis Storzek's thoughts on smaller-section styrene strip, such as .010" square. Maybe some 5 thou strip...please??

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@... , "Ed" <nprybiged@> wrote:

We were talking about having Evergreen,or someone make some new
shape materials.

Well I'm going to dive off on the high board and hope someone filled
the pool.

How about making Styrene Rail, yes I said Rail, in code 100, 83 and
55. Think about it. How many times have you seen photos of the Right
of Way with, depending on the era, 38' sections or welded rail along
side of the track awaiting to be rerailed, or stacks of rail stored
in a freight yard.

This also opens up the posiblety of a welded rail train. Say 15 old
wooden side dump cars with the ends removed and one or two levels of
Rail. Now, I think, if you ahcor the rail in the middle it should
bend ok without derailing the cars.

So if we can but scale HO Tie plates and Rail Joiners in Styrene why
not Scale Rail. I know it can be done just look at the pieces of iron
work that Plastruct markets.

OK, how about your thoughts.

Ed Ursem



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

Some railroads used rail on the sides of TOFC flat cars too. I was planning on using actual rail on mine
but I'd be happier if I could make them w/ styrene.

Anyway, why does anyone think this is a huge investment for someone like Evergreen? They'd just make
a new cutting tool to mill the rail shape.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Schneider" <bschneider424@...>

I suppose that I shouldn’t point out that the cleaner block would also remove paint from the styrene, leaving the tops whi.... never mind.

Seriously, I guess I could see some limited uses, but like Jerry it wouldn’t be high on my product investment list... However, I’ve been wrong before. I think... ;>)

Bill Schneider



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., john.allyn@... wrote:

How about simply taking a few thousandths of an inch off the bottom of the guard rail with a  file?  As Jerry Glow has correctly noted there are a lot of products that just aren't commercially feasible.


John B. Allyn
A few thousandths less than Code 83 gets you to Code 70, and a few from Code 70 gets you to Code 55. Which is absolutely prototypically correct, since most "safety guard" (my term, as opposed to "operational guard" intended to guide the wheel) was old reclaimed rail of a lighter section than the running rail. It was also almost never installed on tie plates. So, if your bridge deck is built to scale, the track cleaning block shouldn't touch the guard rails anyway.

Dennis


Ed <nprybiged@...>
 

Steve

Wow you covered a lot
Thank you

Ed

--- In STMFC@..., "midrly" <midrly@...> wrote:

There are many possibilities for the use of styrene rail. Not only for D&H modellers of the steam era that will have CWR next the running rails to be put in track (did any other road use much CWR in the STMFC timeframe?).

Handlaid turnouts and bridge decks (both actually relevant to STMFC'ers) could finally have guardrails that would not reveal bare nickle silver tops after track cleaning. Some railway structures used old rail as structural steel components instead of I- or H-section beams, another advantage of styrene rail shapes for the modeller.

National Steel Car had an in-plant service gon that used light rail (I have a photo of this car), probably 80# or lighter, as the posts supporting the sides of the car. This car also used the lowest third portion of their NSC-1 ends. Tricky to build out of nickle-silver rail, but easy in styrene. Maybe some roads used rail for uprights in gons as well?

As for rail length, very common in our era were 33' rails in many railways' main tracks. They fit nicely in the 36' i.l. gons and flats used to transport rail from the mill to customer. 39' rail was coming into use, but 33' rails were still very common. I don't recall any 39' rail being in use before 1910. To add to the mix, some roads chopped 18" off each battered end of rails, producing 36', 30', and 27' rails in the process. So cutting what length you want out of 36" long styrene shapes would be best for the modeller. But I'd personally appreciate even 12" lengths of Code 70/55 rail from Evergreen.

But modelling various rail-built bumpers, parking lot curbs, etc, is best done with metal rail for durability. Errant elbows do a lot of damage on a layout.

And I'll echo Dennis Storzek's thoughts on smaller-section styrene strip, such as .010" square. Maybe some 5 thou strip...please??

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "Ed" <nprybiged@> wrote:

We were talking about having Evergreen,or someone make some new
shape materials.

Well I'm going to dive off on the high board and hope someone filled
the pool.

How about making Styrene Rail, yes I said Rail, in code 100, 83 and
55. Think about it. How many times have you seen photos of the Right
of Way with, depending on the era, 38' sections or welded rail along
side of the track awaiting to be rerailed, or stacks of rail stored
in a freight yard.

This also opens up the posiblety of a welded rail train. Say 15 old
wooden side dump cars with the ends removed and one or two levels of
Rail. Now, I think, if you ahcor the rail in the middle it should
bend ok without derailing the cars.

So if we can but scale HO Tie plates and Rail Joiners in Styrene why
not Scale Rail. I know it can be done just look at the pieces of iron
work that Plastruct markets.

OK, how about your thoughts.

Ed Ursem


Tim O'Connor
 

5 thous strip! What a Godsend that would be! Think trust plates, rib flanges, patch panels, etc.

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed" <nprybiged@...>

And I'll echo Dennis Storzek's thoughts on smaller-section styrene strip, such as .010" square. Maybe some 5 thou strip...please??
Steve Lucas.


midrly <midrly@...>
 

I was getting together some parts for building a CN cinder car, and wanted an improved way to fabricate the Z's on the sides and ends. Many (all?) of these cars were made using frames and components from 36' "Fowler"/Dominion steel-frame boxcars. Including the Z's.

.010" thick stock for the part of the angle that meets the car side just looks heavy in HO compared with the real thing. I found myself taking the backing off two new razor blades, and inserting a spacer between them to cut strip of the appropriate width. Some 2-56 nuts and bolts hold the razor blades and spacers together.

This "tool" should have worked well to cut .005" strip to width, but I found that the blades flexed enough to vary the width of the strip as I was cutting it along a straightedge.

So .005" strip would be useful for making Z's, but I don't expect Evergreen to make the stuff for just my using a package or two.

As for styrene rail, many CN "Fowler"/Dominion 36' steel-frame boxcars and early 40' steel-frame boxcars used a length of rail (56- to 80-pound) as a vertical centre brace on the ends of these cars. Stafford Swain had used pieces of styrene approximating rail shape to model this, but a rust-coloured rail styrene strip would be very useful for this. And for other uses that I dare not mention under pain of a trip to Moderate Jail...

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:


5 thous strip! What a Godsend that would be! Think trust plates, rib flanges, patch panels, etc.

Tim O'Connor


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed" <nprybiged@...>

And I'll echo Dennis Storzek's thoughts on smaller-section styrene strip, such as .010" square. Maybe some 5 thou strip...please??
Steve Lucas.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


North Model Railroad Supplies <nmrs@...>
 

Yes, yes, yes.

.005" thick strip in widths up to .250 would be SO useful and save me a lot
of cutting time.

Cheers

Dave North



5 thous strip! What a Godsend that would be! Think trust plates, rib
flanges, patch panels, etc.

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed" < <mailto:nprybiged%40comcast.net> nprybiged@...>

And I'll echo Dennis Storzek's thoughts on smaller-section styrene strip,
such as .010" square. Maybe some 5 thou strip...please??
Steve Lucas.