Date
1 - 20 of 25
3D printing
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Bill Welch
Over on a diesel list I spied comments about this website where there are several items offered in HO that are "printed" in 3-D. Nothing for us YET, but it might provoke something.
http://www.shapeways.com/search?q=ho+trains Bill Welch
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Bill,
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Actually, there are a number of items of interest to folks on this list. These guys (Shapeways) have been around for a bit now and can do some pretty cool things. But before you get too excited, the rules of 3D printing still apply. For example, flat surfaces in more than 2 dimensions are still hard. As a consequence, these models have visible striations where the layers are deposited. The page does a nice job of not showing this, by mostly featuring unpainted models or cad drawings <G> Here is an example of an N-scale PRR rubber tired switcher. http://www.shapeways.com/model/517368/n-scale-1-160-prr-electric-switcher.html The site is not necessarily set up to allow easy browsing of the products offered. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield." __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0
On Aug 28, 2012, at 9:55 AM, lnbill wrote:
Over on a diesel list I spied comments about this website where there are several items offered in HO that are "printed" in 3-D. Nothing for us YET, but it might provoke something. http://www.shapeways.com/search?q=ho+trains Bill Welch ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links
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Charles Hostetler <cesicjh@...>
Group,
There are some example masters made by rapid prototyping shown here that will be cast in resin: http://cnwmodeling.blogspot.com/2012/08/approach-to-details-for-city-of-midland.html These are 1:87 parts for a model of the City of Midland (a railroad car ferry) produced by FX models. The last example is a liferaft with a relatively large and complex 3D surface that will be highly visible on the final model. I will report on the results of the resin casting and the appearance of the finished pieces as soon as they become available. I was more impressed with the appearance of these parts than I thought I would be. Of course, they were made by a professional with a very expensive "printer". Regards, Charles Hostetler
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Steven D Johnson
Love that center baggage section combine car!
Steve Johnson From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of lnbill Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 9:56 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] 3D printing Over on a diesel list I spied comments about this website where there are several items offered in HO that are "printed" in 3-D. Nothing for us YET, but it might provoke something. http://www.shapeways.com/search?q=ho+trains Bill Welch
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FRANK PEACOCK
Group, I think from what little I know about 3-D printing it is difficult, however take a look at the web site of Pacific Locomotive Works. (A note to keep me out of Jail: he can do freight car parts too). The examples are mostly O Scale or P:48 drivers but they are certainly done in 3-D. Bill gave me one of his reject drivers, and is was in a word, awesome. Even with the defect. It was a BLW 74" Baldwin Disc wheel center. FHP (Frank H. Peacock)
To: STMFC@... From: tenncentralrwy@... Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 11:04:06 -0500 Subject: RE: [STMFC] 3D printing Love that center baggage section combine car! Steve Johnson From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of lnbill Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 9:56 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] 3D printing Over on a diesel list I spied comments about this website where there are several items offered in HO that are "printed" in 3-D. Nothing for us YET, but it might provoke something. http://www.shapeways.com/search?q=ho+trains Bill Welch [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Bill Welch
While I am sure it is difficult, and as others have said it has its limitations, it seems to me that most new technologies can be described that way. I remember being Co-Chair for the education component for the National Press Photographers Assoc. Convention in Nashville and the president of the organization wanted us to have presentation on a new digital underwater camera. This was the late 1970s or early 1980s. In the end the output from camera featured in the presentation was pretty underwhelming. Look at where we are now.
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Mark my words, at some point in the future I bet this 3-D printing will one more way we will be getting things we want. Bill Welch
--- In STMFC@..., FRANK PEACOCK <frank3112@...> wrote:
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Scaler164@...
It is my understanding that this technology has been around since the late '7s or early '80s.
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John Degnan Scaler187@... Scaler164@...
----- Original Message -----
From: "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 2:02:09 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: 3D printing While I am sure it is difficult, and as others have said it has its limitations, it seems to me that most new technologies can be described that way. I remember being Co-Chair for the education component for the National Press Photographers Assoc. Convention in Nashville and the president of the organization wanted us to have presentation on a new digital underwater camera. This was the late 1970s or early 1980s. In the end the output from camera featured in the presentation was pretty underwhelming. Look at where we are now. Mark my words, at some point in the future I bet this 3-D printing will one more way we will be getting things we want. Bill Welch --- In STMFC@..., FRANK PEACOCK <frank3112@...> wrote:
------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
John Degnan wrote:
It is my understanding that this technology has been around since the late '7s or early '80s.Certainly by the mid-1980s it was already being investigated by academics. When I was at Carnegie Mellon in those years, the mechanical engineering faculty had a number of research projects in "rapid prototyping," as it was called. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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NHJJ4@...
Was watching a Speed channel show a year or so ago. Jay Leno has a
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machine in his shop. if he needs a part for his ?? 1903 Stanley Steamer He tales the part puts it in and makes a copy Then he can see if it will work and make a real replacement for the car. Must be nice !! Would love to say ( Jay O'l buddy I need a couple if these please !! ) Jim Evans
In a message dated 8/28/2012 12:44:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
thompson@... writes: John Degnan wrote: It is my understanding that this technology has been around since thelate '7s or early '80s. Certainly by the mid-1980s it was already being investigated by academics. When I was at Carnegie Mellon in those years, the mechanical engineering faculty had a number of research projects in "rapid prototyping," as it was called. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, _thompson@... (mailto:thompson@...) Publishers of books on railroad history [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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nvrr49 <nvrr49@...>
I have put some photo's of some 3D printed items in my photo folder, nvrr49. They are not Steam era freight car items, but they do give an idea of the detail that can currently be achived. When approved, they will be viewable in the nvrr49 folder.
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Kent Hurley KC MO
--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
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----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson To: STMFC@... Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 3:44 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: 3D printing John Degnan wrote: > It is my understanding that this technology has been around since the late '7s or early '80s. Certainly by the mid-1980s it was already being investigated by academics. When I was at Carnegie Mellon in those years, the mechanical engineering faculty had a number of research projects in "rapid prototyping," as it was called. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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ken_olson54022 <kwolson@...>
Warning: minor rant coming...
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Correction. Jay Leno doesn't DO anything except write checks. He even had one of his minions do the driving for him when he entered a fighting robot (built by someone else) on the Battlebots TV show a few years back. Sorry, but I feel it's important to separate the actual doers from the hangers-on. Okay, I'm all better now... Ken Olson
--- In STMFC@..., NHJJ4@... wrote:
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Tom Madden
We seem to have this conversation every couple of months. The last time it came up we heard about a step backwards in the available technology. See Rob Kirkham's post #108304 from this past March 29. Rob reported that Shapeways was no longer able to deliver parts (ladders) with 0.3mm (0.012") features (rungs), and now required 0.6mm (0.024") minimum thickness on such features. Looking at the Shapeways web site, I see that's still the case.
That's not a limit of the technology. I suspect, from Shapeway's standpoint, very fine freestanding features like ladder rungs fall in the "more trouble than it's worth" category. Tom Madden
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Yes - that's true. As Tom indicates, Shapeways rendered the first draft of those ladders without a problem, so my guess is that the change in spec was a business decision, not technological.
Not sure whether I reported on my progress after that. I was able to send an order for my CPR 1937 ARA ladders to ADC and received them back with .2mm rungs (~.008" or scale ~11/16" in real life) - three or four out of an order of 120 didn't survive. Am now working on a drilling jig to make installation easy. First try had too much wiggling to be precise. Meanwhile, I've also designed a few other models including a CPR single sheathed automobile boxcar model with inverted 5/5/5 Murphy ends. The siding didn't print very well - I used very close to scale board shape and no real grooves - and that didn't work. Too subtle to be rendered as drawn because of the slight grain of the printing process and (in my opinion) poor quality control at Shapeways. I'm re-drawing the car sides again to improve the rendering of the wood sheathing. Since that version I've learned to insert scale rivets and nut heads, so the new version will be better detailed. I find the models are usually a learning experience & sometimes a step forward to better models. But I keep at it and am very happy with the progress, slow as it is. The ability to create unavailable parts is real now. I find the drawing is more of a challenge than anything else. One starts to understand the manifold challenges a manufacturer has when designing a product for market. Proto-dimensions do not cut it for some things- the technology can't render the smallest shapes. So as one draws, one learns cheats that may help capture the essence of proto shape at a level that works for the process. Or they may just look coarse and you have to try again. That means $$ go to development, rather than to finished models. A real cost of learning. Fortunately I have at least one friend who has been willing to share the cost of some of the more costly experiments. To me, moving along the drawing learning curve is the big challenge; learning what the technology is presently able to do and designing to those constraints is easier but another learning curve; finding suppliers willing to do our small lots another; having the perseverance to continue after the first few disasters - well, good thing it's a hobby. Rob -------------------------------------------------- From: "pullmanboss" <pullmanboss@...> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 8:55 PM To: <STMFC@...> Subject: [STMFC] Re: 3D printing We seem to have this conversation every couple of months. The last time it came up we heard about a step backwards in the available technology. See Rob Kirkham's post #108304 from this past March 29. Rob reported that Shapeways was no longer able to deliver parts (ladders) with 0.3mm (0.012") features (rungs), and now required 0.6mm (0.024") minimum thickness on such features. Looking at the Shapeways web site, I see that's still the case.
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teu6500
I agree with Rob. I believe the technology has advanced to the point that it would render detail beyond your wildest expectations. The issue is cost.
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There are online service bureaus for 3D printing, most with an automated price quote feature: send them the file, they send you a price. Seems like most of them have a $150 minimum charge. If you're producing a model for retail sales, that could be worth the price, but for a couple of one-offs, no-go. Shapeways is one of the few bureaus that's marketing to the low-volume model makers, but you pay a price in quality and resolution, as has already been mentioned. My first experiment was a huge disappointment. Bob Edmonson
--- In STMFC@..., "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:
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Scott H. Haycock
I would agree that this is a technology with great potential in our hobby. The hard part is the steep learning curve of the design programs.
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----- Original Message -----
There are online service bureaus for 3D printing, most with an automated price quote feature: send them the file, they send you a price. Seems like most of them have a >$150 minimum charge. If you're producing a model for retail sales, that could be worth the price, but for a couple of one-offs, no-go.Bob, I would be willing to pay $150.00 for as many parts as that would buy, figuring that I could sell the surplus. Could you provide some company names that fit your description? Scott Haycock
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teu6500
Scott,
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The easiest thing to do is Google "rapid prototyping" or "3D printing" and you'll probably get the same list I had. Make sure you read their blurbs to figure out which ones have the high-res equipment and do one-off prototypes. Memory fails me on this point, but it seemed like $150 was basically a setup charge, then you paid per each. I may have that wrong. Good luck and let us know if you find a place. Bob
--- In STMFC@..., "Scott H. Haycock " <shhaycock@...> wrote:
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eric cox
Setup charges can be steep, $50 minimum being the best found locally, but if you want to experiment with different materials and resolutions try one of the print on demand places like Shapeways. Setup fees are low, and they have plenty of options, downside is that it's not a local outfit and it takes a couple weeks to see the finished product and correct your mistakes. I've found for N scale it's not expensive, but it gets pricy for HO since costs are based on material quantities. The HO Fox truck I'm making uses ~7 times the volume of its N scale counterparts. There are cheap and free design programs around, learning them takes time though. See pics of some N scale I did a while back in the album entitled 'Eric Cox 3D printed trucks' in the photos section or here:
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http://www.shapeways.com/shops/panamintmodels?sort=newest Eric
--- In STMFC@..., "teu6500" <oldmancat@...> wrote:
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hvyweight41
Has anyone had any experience with the MakerBot company's series of desktop 3D printer? Their first was the Thing-O-Matic. Their latest is The Replicator™. It was at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) and costs $1,749.00. It can accept any 3D model but you run it through this compiler type program that ReplicatorG uses something called Skeinforge to generate the Gcode for your prints. This "slices" the design into each layer. There were some discussions about the resolution. The Skeinforge can set the finest resolution the machine can produce or something less. I believe like any printer, the higher the resolution, the longer it takes. Time is money and your commercial outfits don't want to have long production times. You can print in either ABS (what Lego® is made of) or PLA (a bio-material made from corn). The website is www.Makerbot.com . I'm saving my paper route moneyto get one. I've been following MakerBot for a while. The Thing-O-Matic was $2500 and now the more capable Replciator is $1749. One of the really nice things is that they advocate open source and shareware. You can post your designs for anyone to download and use or improve or both! By the time I have the $1749, they'll probably have an even more capable model for less. Isn't progress great! I will always be a kit builder and the opportunity to make unavailable parts true to the prototype is very exciting.
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Thanks, Keith Kempster Jacksonville, FL
--- In STMFC@..., "teu6500" <oldmancat@...> wrote:
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Larry Sexton
A work colleague, his son and I have been working since last February on
using a Makerbot to print HO scale freightcars. The original machine worked great until the car was 65-75% printed then the printer head would consistently wipe or smear the molten plastic. We used the ABS ribbon to print. We have since been in numerous re-design phases to address the issues of ensuring that repetitive motions are the same hour after hour, of under-cooling and the heat build-up phases of the printer heads. Then there were sag problems due to wear and weigh of the components. Slowly but surely the network of designers that are developing the "printer bots" are solving the various problems as they arise, but I still believe most of what we would like to do and the models we'd like to print are some way in the future. I would suggest you Google "printer bots" etc as I believe there is an industry show very soon where most of the developers will be showing their creations. You can learn a lot about the capabilities and if you pay attention, the weaknesses, of the various machines being shown at these shows. If you happen to have the 3D CAD drawing of a couple of components, I believe you will find that some of the developers will do a quick print-out for you as a demo at the show. Check several vendors and you could have the bases for making a determination of what or whether to buy, or who may actually be able to print off short runs for you in the future. Larry Sexton From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of hvyweight41 Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 9:57 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: 3D printing Has anyone had any experience with the MakerBot company's series of desktop 3D printer? Their first was the Thing-O-Matic. Their latest is The ReplicatorT. It was at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) and costs $1,749.00. It can accept any 3D model but you run it through this compiler type program that ReplicatorG uses something called Skeinforge to generate the Gcode for your prints. This "slices" the design into each layer. There were some discussions about the resolution. The Skeinforge can set the finest resolution the machine can produce or something less. I believe like any printer, the higher the resolution, the longer it takes. Time is money and your commercial outfits don't want to have long production times. You can print in either ABS (what LegoR is made of) or PLA (a bio-material made from corn). The website is www.Makerbot.com . I'm saving my paper route moneyto get one. I've been following MakerBot for a while. The Thing-O-Matic was $2500 and now the more capable Replciator is $1749. One of the really nice things is that they advocate open source and shareware. You can post your designs for anyone to download and use or improve or both! By the time I have the $1749, they'll probably have an even more capable model for less. Isn't progress great! I will always be a kit builder and the opportunity to make unavailable parts true to the prototype is very exciting. Thanks, Keith Kempster Jacksonville, FL --- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "teu6500" <oldmancat@...> wrote: you'll probably get the same list I had. Make sure you read their blurbs to figure out which ones have the high-res equipment and do one-off prototypes. setup charge, then you paid per each. I may have that wrong. Good luck and let us know if you find a place. Haycock " <shhaycock@> wrote: hobby. The hard part is the steep learning curve of the design programs. automated price quote feature: send them the file, they send you a price. Seems like most of them have a >$150 minimum charge. If you're producing a model for retail sales, that could be worth the price, but for a couple of one-offs, no-go. buy, figuring that I could sell the surplus. Could you provide some company names that fit your description?
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