Topics

red caboose 1937 aar sq corner


Mark
 

Purchased two of these and found the Nickle Plate had something similar

http://rr-fallenflags.org/nkp/nkp15797aga.jpg

The sill is interesting and wonder if they were built or this is a modification.

Already have an Erie kit with this body and a viking roof, would like to make the two different roadnames.

Will miss Naperville so you all Have Fun.

Sincerely, Mark Morgan


Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Years ago, Des Planes Hobbies had IMWX do a special run of the square end 1937 boxcar with a specially-commissioned Viking roof. They did several roads, including a NKP car (I still have one kicking around my stash of cars). I believe that the deep "fishbelly" under the door was original to the NKP car... maybe someone else can give more information regarding as to who else used this arrangement.


 
Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA



________________________________
From: Mark M <bnonut@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 5:08 PM
Subject: [STMFC] red caboose 1937 aar sq corner


 
Purchased two of these and found the Nickle Plate had something similar

http://rr-fallenflags.org/nkp/nkp15797aga.jpg

The sill is interesting and wonder if they were built or this is a modification.

Already have an Erie kit with this body and a viking roof, would like to make the two different roadnames.

Will miss Naperville so you all Have Fun.

Sincerely, Mark Morgan




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 15, 2012, at 5:08 PM, Mark M wrote:

Purchased two of these and found the Nickle Plate had something
similar

http://rr-fallenflags.org/nkp/nkp15797aga.jpg

The sill is interesting and wonder if they were built or this is a
modification.

Already have an Erie kit with this body and a viking roof, would
like to make the two different roadnames.

Mark, those sills were reinforced very late in life, and the door is
not original either. I'll send you off-line an in-service photo
showing the cars as originally delivered. However, note that the NKP
cars in this series, like the Erie cars, had Viking corrugated
roofs. Still, there were a number of other RRs with 1937 spec. AAR
box cars that had square-cornered ends and Murphy rectangular panel
roofs (e.g., UP, SP, NP, Sou, C&EI, T&P), though none that I can
think of offhand in the northeast.

Richard Hendrickson


Brian Carlson
 

Richard is correct this was a late in life NKP sidesill reinforcement to
strengthen the sides for loading by fork trucks general. Many roads did
this. However, if as far as a roster of 1937 AR cars don't forget Ed Hawkins
rosters that were in RMJ and later the Steam Era freight cars Website Ted c
ha. I believe the RMJ roster can be found on the Trainlife Website. I
downloaded the PDf from Ted's site years ago.



Railroads in the NE that had these included Erie, DL&W C&O, LV, CP, NYC,
P&LE, CN However doors, roofs, ends varied so work from photos. CN CP and
C&O had square ends. But if you subscribe to the Nelson-Gilbert theory why
limit yourself to the NE <grin>



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga, NY



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 10:20 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] red caboose 1937 aar sq corner





Mark, those sills were reinforced very late in life, and the door is
not original either. I'll send you off-line an in-service photo
showing the cars as originally delivered. However, note that the NKP
cars in this series, like the Erie cars, had Viking corrugated
roofs. Still, there were a number of other RRs with 1937 spec. AAR
box cars that had square-cornered ends and Murphy rectangular panel
roofs (e.g., UP, SP, NP, Sou, C&EI, T&P), though none that I can
think of offhand in the northeast.

Richard Hendrickson


Gary Roe
 

Bill,

Des Plaines also had these cars produced with the Viking roof in N Scale.

gary roe
quincy, illinois

_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Bill
Daniels
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 8:43 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] red caboose 1937 aar sq corner




Years ago, Des Planes Hobbies had IMWX do a special run of the square end
1937 boxcar with a specially-commissioned Viking roof. They did several
roads, including a NKP car (I still have one kicking around my stash of
cars). I believe that the deep "fishbelly" under the door was original to
the NKP car... maybe someone else can give more information regarding as to
who else used this arrangement.


Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA


David Sieber
 

In STMFC@..., Brian Carlson wrote: Richard [Hendrickson] is correct this was a late in life NKP sidesill reinforcement to strengthen the sides for loading by fork trucks ...

Gentlemen, anyone know how 'late in life' the NKP did this sidesill reinforcement and door replacement? Was it in the mid-'50s when the NKP similarly rebuilt their remaining '32 AAR boxcars (though without such an impressive sidesill reinforcement)? Also, did these '37 cars receive diagonal panel roofs, as well as the Apex Tri-Lok running boards visible in the photo, as the NKP did with their '32 boxcars? Any help would be appreciated, since I'd like to model one of these rebuilds appropriately to fit either my 1958 or 1967 modeling eras.
Many thanks, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Tim O'Connor
 

NKP rebuilt some 16000-17699 series cars into 18000 series in 1963. I guess
they would have rebuilt all of them if they weren't being bought by the N&W.

Covered in the NKP Hist Society Volume 25, Issue #1. Some cars received the
new numbers but had no change in appearance at all -- See Classic Freight Cars
Volume 1, p.20 for a 1960's shot of NKP #18211. The NKPHS article has photos of
18020, 18043, 18080, 18906.

Note these were NOT the S-corner cars, 15000-15999. Those were not rebuilt.

Tim O'Connor

----------------------------------
Gentlemen, anyone know how 'late in life' the NKP did this sidesill reinforcement and door replacement? Was it in the mid-'50s when the NKP similarly rebuilt their remaining '32 AAR boxcars (though without such an impressive sidesill reinforcement)? Also, did these '37 cars receive diagonal panel roofs, as well as the Apex Tri-Lok running boards visible in the photo, as the NKP did with their '32 boxcars? Any help would be appreciated, since I'd like to model one of these rebuilds appropriately to fit either my 1958 or 1967 modeling eras. Many thanks, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


David Sieber
 

Tim, appreciate your response; however, Mark Morgan's post that began this thread included a link to a Fallen Flags photo of NKP 15797, a square-corner '37 boxcar with a drop sill reinforcement, postwar Improved Youngstown Steel Door, and steel replacement running board. From this, the NKP did rebuild at least some of their S-corner '37 boxcars, as they had rebuilt their '32 boxcars and W-corner '37 boxcars.
Please see http://rr-fallenflags.org/nkp/nkp15797aga.jpg and a repaint photo near the bottom of the page at http://www.hoosiervalley.org/index.php/photos/photos-from-around-the-museum/page-3/

In an earlier STMFC thread on NKP 15000-15999, Ray Breyer noted that NKP 15797 (and 15979) were preserved in the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum in North Judson IN (photo link above). In response to Andy Harman's question on replacement roofs, Ray noted that "I can't tell if the roofs are original or replacements though; that will require a trip to the museum in the spring!" Ray, have you had a chance to get back to the museum to check out the roofs on these S-corner boxcars? Now, there's at least two of us seeking a bit more detail on these interesting NKP 15000 rebuilds.

Dave Sieber, Reno NV

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor wrote: NKP rebuilt some 16000-17699 series cars into 18000 series in 1963 ... Note these were NOT the S-corner cars, 15000-15999. Those were not rebuilt.

----------------------------------
Gentlemen, anyone know how 'late in life' the NKP did this sidesill reinforcement and door replacement? Was it in the mid-'50s when the NKP similarly rebuilt their remaining '32 AAR boxcars (though without such an impressive sidesill reinforcement)? Also, did these '37 cars receive diagonal panel roofs, as well as the Apex Tri-Lok running boards visible in the photo, as the NKP did with their '32 boxcars? Any help would be appreciated, since I'd like to model one of these rebuilds appropriately to fit either my 1958 or 1967 modeling eras. Many thanks, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Tim O'Connor
 

Dave

From such a late photo, there is no certainty about WHO or WHEN it was rebuilt -- this work
could easily have been performed by the N&W for example. Do you have any photos of any of
the 15000 series cars rebuilt during the NKP era? I'm not saying it can't be a NKP rebuild with
a replacement roof for the original Viking roof, but I have no information about that.

Tim O'

----- Original Message -----
From: "ealabhan0" <ealabhan0@...>

Tim, appreciate your response; however, Mark Morgan's post that began this thread included a link to a Fallen Flags photo of NKP 15797, a square-corner '37 boxcar with a drop sill reinforcement, postwar Improved Youngstown Steel Door, and steel replacement running board. From this, the NKP did rebuild at least some of their S-corner '37 boxcars, as they had rebuilt their '32 boxcars and W-corner '37 boxcars.
Please see http://rr-fallenflags.org/nkp/nkp15797aga.jpg and a repaint photo near the bottom of the page at http://www.hoosiervalley.org/index.php/photos/photos-from-around-the-museum/page-3/

In an earlier STMFC thread on NKP 15000-15999, Ray Breyer noted that NKP 15797 (and 15979) were preserved in the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum in North Judson IN (photo link above). In response to Andy Harman's question on replacement roofs, Ray noted that "I can't tell if the roofs are original or replacements though; that will require a trip to the museum in the spring!" Ray, have you had a chance to get back to the museum to check out the roofs on these S-corner boxcars? Now, there's at least two of us seeking a bit more detail on these interesting NKP 15000 rebuilds.

Dave Sieber, Reno NV

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor wrote: NKP rebuilt some 16000-17699 series cars into 18000 series in 1963 ... Note these were NOT the S-corner cars, 15000-15999. Those were not rebuilt.
----------------------------------
Gentlemen, anyone know how 'late in life' the NKP did this sidesill reinforcement and door replacement? Was it in the mid-'50s when the NKP similarly rebuilt their remaining '32 AAR boxcars (though without such an impressive sidesill reinforcement)? Also, did these '37 cars receive diagonal panel roofs, as well as the Apex Tri-Lok running boards visible in the photo, as the NKP did with their '32 boxcars? Any help would be appreciated, since I'd like to model one of these rebuilds appropriately to fit either my 1958 or 1967 modeling eras. Many thanks, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


David Sieber
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor wrote: From such a late photo, there is no certainty about WHO or WHEN it was rebuilt -- this work could easily have been performed by the N&W for example. Do you have any photos of any of the 15000 series cars rebuilt during the NKP era? I'm not saying it can't be a NKP rebuild with a replacement roof for the original Viking roof, but I have no information about that.

Tim, I really wish I did have a 15000-series rebuild photo clearly dating from the NKP era, prior to the N&W takeover. All that I've found have been of NKP 15797 in the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum: Alan Gaines' Fallen Flags photo in badly rusted NKP P&L, and the Museum's 2010 NKP repaint thereof. (The Museum's other car from this series, NKP 15979, is said to be in the N&W hamburger scheme, but I haven't seen a photo.) That's why I'm hoping that Ray Breyer or another NKP expert from the Midwest will chime in on the 15000-series rebuilds. Heck, at least he's been to the Hoosier Valley RR Museum - I only just found out about it today when I googled "railroad museum, North Judson IN"! Any knowledgeable Hoosiers out there with more detail on the NKP 15000-series rebuilds, i.e., rebuilder and date, roof, etc?
Many thanks, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


william darnaby
 

Ok....I went and found my NKP Society magazines covering these cars. The
Spring 1990 issue did the 15000 cars and the Winter 1991 did the 18000 cars.
First, there were no rebuilds of the 15000 cars...they went to N&W paint
and/or scrap pretty much as built. These were the square corner 1937 cars
built in 1936.

Second, the NKP acquired additional cars of the same design in 1941, 1942
and 1944, in the series 16000-17699, that were identical except for W corner
ends. These were rebuilt in 1963 (out of our period of interest) with the
gusseting, new roofs (the somewhat grainy photos indicate unpainted improved
roofs) and new 6' doors and renumbered into the 18000 series. There were,
of course, exceptions as some 119 of the 16000 cars were not rebuilt and
were gone by 1966. In addition, the last 300 cars of the 17000 series were
not rebuilt. Finally, the N&W itself rebuilt 300 cars into series
221000-219299.

The bottom line for the period of our list is that the cars were unmodified.

Bill Darnaby

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
ealabhan0
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 7:05 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: red caboose 1937 aar sq corner

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor wrote: From such a late photo,
there is no certainty about WHO or WHEN it was rebuilt -- this work could
easily have been performed by the N&W for example. Do you have any photos of
any of the 15000 series cars rebuilt during the NKP era? I'm not saying it
can't be a NKP rebuild with a replacement roof for the original Viking roof,
but I have no information about that.

Tim, I really wish I did have a 15000-series rebuild photo clearly dating
from the NKP era, prior to the N&W takeover. All that I've found have been
of NKP 15797 in the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum: Alan Gaines' Fallen
Flags photo in badly rusted NKP P&L, and the Museum's 2010 NKP repaint
thereof. (The Museum's other car from this series, NKP 15979, is said to be
in the N&W hamburger scheme, but I haven't seen a photo.) That's why I'm
hoping that Ray Breyer or another NKP expert from the Midwest will chime in
on the 15000-series rebuilds. Heck, at least he's been to the Hoosier
Valley RR Museum - I only just found out about it today when I googled
"railroad museum, North Judson IN"! Any knowledgeable Hoosiers out there
with more detail on the NKP 15000-series rebuilds, i.e., rebuilder and date,
roof, etc?
Many thanks, Dave Sieber, Reno NV