: completed helium car model


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Don Valentine wrote:
This makes into a nice model, Tony, and one that also reaises some questions for me. Some years ago I was given a batch of ACF car drawings. Few were labeled as to the road they were designed for. This makes me further wonder who many of them were actually constructed. Therein lies there relationship to helium cars as one of them is noted to be a helium car. The drawing is not right at hand at the moment but can be dug out. If memory serves there were either two or three rows of stacked tanks with the tanks being larger in diameter than those on your model and being stacked like cordwood.
Does this strike a familiar cord with you or other listees? Might anyone know how many different styles of helium tank cars might have been used and how many different builders constructed them?
No need to wonder about this, as Jay Miller made a superb clinic handout over five years ago, with COMPLETE rosters and photos of all the helium cars built over the decades. I relied on Jay's information in making my model and cited his handout in a couple of posts. But anyone wanting to download it can do so at the following link; scroll down to about the middle of the page (just above the list of helium plants) and you will find a link for the entire handout.

http://www.atsfrr.org/Reviews/HO/Freight/Helium/Index.htm

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

I was reading Tony's excellent blogs on the helium cars, and I remember his comment about painting them using SP lettering grey. While I cannot fault Tony's choice, I did spend my military duty in the Navy and one thing I can say for sure is that the Navy painted EVERYTHING haze grey, which is a medium grey and is somewhat darker than SP lettering grey. Now Tony's justification for using SP lettering grey makes sense to me, but for those of you who want to go with a more maintained color, I would recommend a darker grey than what Tony used.

Bill Daniels

On Nov 29, 2012, at 2:26 PM, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Don Valentine wrote:
This makes into a nice model, Tony, and one that also reaises some questions for me. Some years ago I was given a batch of ACF car drawings. Few were labeled as to the road they were designed for. This makes me further wonder who many of them were actually constructed. Therein lies there relationship to helium cars as one of them is noted to be a helium car. The drawing is not right at hand at the moment but can be dug out. If memory serves there were either two or three rows of stacked tanks with the tanks being larger in diameter than those on your model and being stacked like cordwood.
Does this strike a familiar cord with you or other listees? Might anyone know how many different styles of helium tank cars might have been used and how many different builders constructed them?
No need to wonder about this, as Jay Miller made a superb clinic handout over five years ago, with COMPLETE rosters and photos of all the helium cars built over the decades. I relied on Jay's information in making my model and cited his handout in a couple of posts. But anyone wanting to download it can do so at the following link; scroll down to about the middle of the page (just above the list of helium plants) and you will find a link for the entire handout.

http://www.atsfrr.org/Reviews/HO/Freight/Helium/Index.htm

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bill Daniels wrote:
I was reading Tony's excellent blogs on the helium cars, and I remember his comment about painting them using SP lettering grey. While I cannot fault Tony's choice, I did spend my military duty in the Navy and one thing I can say for sure is that the Navy painted EVERYTHING haze grey, which is a medium grey and is somewhat darker than SP lettering grey. Now Tony's justification for using SP lettering grey makes sense to me, but for those of you who want to go with a more maintained color, I would recommend a darker grey than what Tony used.
Bill noticed that I deliberately chose a lighter gray to reflect both fading of elderly paint and also the effects of indoor lighting. I am sure he is correct that the usual Navy medium gray is the right color if a person were restoring a prototype car, but in model form I think it looks too dark.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Bill Welch
 

Military Modelers commonly use slightly lighter shades of paint to compensate for what they call "the Scale Effect."

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Bill Daniels wrote:
I was reading Tony's excellent blogs on the helium cars, and I remember his comment about painting them using SP lettering grey. While I cannot fault Tony's choice, I did spend my military duty in the Navy and one thing I can say for sure is that the Navy painted EVERYTHING haze grey, which is a medium grey and is somewhat darker than SP lettering grey. Now Tony's justification for using SP lettering grey makes sense to me, but for those of you who want to go with a more maintained color, I would recommend a darker grey than what Tony used.
Bill noticed that I deliberately chose a lighter gray to reflect both fading of elderly paint and also the effects of indoor lighting. I am sure he is correct that the usual Navy medium gray is the right color if a person were restoring a prototype car, but in model form I think it looks too dark.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 30, 2012, at 5:20 AM, lnbill wrote:
Military Modelers commonly use slightly lighter shades of paint to
compensate for what they call "the Scale Effect."

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Bill Daniels wrote:
I was reading Tony's excellent blogs on the helium cars, and I
remember his comment about painting them using SP lettering grey.
While I cannot fault Tony's choice, I did spend my military duty in
the Navy and one thing I can say for sure is that the Navy painted
EVERYTHING haze grey, which is a medium grey and is somewhat darker
than SP lettering grey. Now Tony's justification for using SP
lettering grey makes sense to me, but for those of you who want to
go with a more maintained color, I would recommend a darker grey
than what Tony used.

Bill noticed that I deliberately chose a lighter gray to reflect
both fading of elderly paint and also the effects of indoor
lighting. I am sure he is correct that the usual Navy medium gray
is the right color if a person were restoring a prototype car, but
in model form I think it looks too dark.
Good grief! Why can't North American railroad modelers wrap their
minds around what Bill aptly calls "the scale effect" when it has
been well understood by aircraft and armor modelers for decades?
This concept goes back at least to 1947, when a group of British
aircraft modelers conducted a series of experiments to determine why
the colors on their models seemed "off" when they were identical to
the colors on the prototype. To oversimplify a bit, they discovered
the following principles:

1. A small object (e.g., a model) will appear darker than a large
object (e.g. a prototype aircraft or railroad car) even though
painted exactly the same color.

2. A small object (e.g., a model) will appear more shiny than a
large object (e.g. a prototype aircraft or railroad car) even though
it has exactly the same reflectivity.

3. The artificial light under which models are almost always viewed
varies in quality and intensity and is NEVER as bright as the natural
sunlight under which the prototypes are viewed.

These principles render the search for the exact color the prototype
was painted not just pointless but in some respects misleading.
Still, that search has occupied a lot of bandwidth on the STMFC list
and continues to do so. Of course, you want to start with something
reasonably close to the original color. But to achieve a realistic
appearance, a model that will be viewed under artificial light should
ALWAYS be a bit lighter, less saturated in color, and less shiny than
the prototype. Does it matter what kind of artificial light? Sure
it does, but that introduces a bunch of other variables about which
it is difficult to generalize. Then there are the effects on color
of aging and weathering, about which it is also difficult to
generalize. Sorry, guys, but painting models and getting them to
look right is not a matter of meticulous research into the prototype
colors, it's an art form. One of the surest ways to make a model
look unrealistic is to paint it the exact same color as its prototype.

Richard Hendrickson