Revell Flatcar


Scott H. Haycock
 

Going through a box of old stuff, I came across an old Revell flatcar body about 54 feet long. Is this car representative of any prototype? I haven't found anything but the body- no frame. If this car is worth fixing up,is there a current flatcar model that would have the correct type of frame for this car?
Thanks

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

----- Original Message -----


Bill Welch
 

If this is the same tooling that Con-Cor used, then it is very close if not actually a CB&Q flat. I used the Con-Cor model to build a CB&Q car based on an article somewhere, mainly removing cast-on details and replacing them with stand off grabs, sturdy metal sill steps, etc and weathering the deck. This was in the early or mid-1990s.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Scott H. Haycock " wrote:

Going through a box of old stuff, I came across an old Revell flatcar body about 54 feet long. Is this car representative of any prototype? I haven't found anything but the body- no frame. If this car is worth fixing up,is there a current flatcar model that would have the correct type of frame for this car?
Thanks

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent
----- Original Message -----




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Scott H. Haycock
 

Good Morning Bill!
I believe you may be correct. I seem to recall that this car was re-done later by another company.
A little more information: The underside of the casting says "REVELL, INC. © 1956". on the opposite side it says "4030-002". The car is lettered for " H. J. HEINZ CO PICKLE CAR 4130". It has some tabs on the deck so I suspect it originally had a set of pickle tanks as a load. Hopefully I will be able to find some additional parts for this car in a box somewhere, but I'm not holding my breath!

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

----- Original Message -----





If this is the same tooling that Con-Cor used, then it is very close if not actually a CB&Q flat. I used the Con-Cor model to build a CB&Q car based on an article somewhere, mainly removing cast-on details and replacing them with stand off grabs, sturdy metal sill steps, etc and weathering the deck. This was in the early or mid-1990s.

Bill Welch


Charlie Vlk
 

Bill and all
Yes, you are correct. Con-Cor bought all the Revell tooling. They even did a run of CB&Q flats although Jim insisted on doing them in Black when they should have been Oxide. I provided him with photos and numbers when I was working at JMC
Not all the Revell stuff was brought out.
The UP caboose, reefer, box, tank?and stock car weren't run AFAIK.
The tooling was in massive die bases that only a few injection molders had machines large enough to run them.
Charlie Vlk

On Feb 2, 2013, at 4:28 AM, "Scott H. Haycock " <shhaycock@...> wrote:

Good Morning Bill!
I believe you may be correct. I seem to recall that this car was re-done later by another company.
A little more information: The underside of the casting says "REVELL, INC. © 1956". on the opposite side it says "4030-002". The car is lettered for " H. J. HEINZ CO PICKLE CAR 4130". It has some tabs on the deck so I suspect it originally had a set of pickle tanks as a load. Hopefully I will be able to find some additional parts for this car in a box somewhere, but I'm not holding my breath!

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent
----- Original Message -----

If this is the same tooling that Con-Cor used, then it is very close if not actually a CB&Q flat. I used the Con-Cor model to build a CB&Q car based on an article somewhere, mainly removing cast-on details and replacing them with stand off grabs, sturdy metal sill steps, etc and weathering the deck. This was in the early or mid-1990s.

Bill Welch




Scott H. Haycock
 

Bill got me thinking so I went into my files and found several articles about modeling using this car and it's Concor successor:
M.M. Nov. 1997 50t flatcars- Greg Martin.--
RMC Feb. 1995 Modeling Two U.P. 53'-6" flatcars-Robert Smaus--
M.M. Oct. 1988 AAR 50t flatcars- Drawings and details- Hundman, Keyser, and Hendrickson-- While the model isn't mentioned, the drawings look like the Revell car on a cursory glance...
I Didn't find the CB&Q article Bill referenced, But with a little more information, I probably have it somewhere...


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

----- Original Message -----





Good Morning Bill!
I believe you may be correct. I seem to recall that this car was re-done later by another company.
A little more information: The underside of the casting says "REVELL, INC. © 1956". on the opposite side it says "4030-002". The car is lettered for " H. J. HEINZ CO PICKLE CAR 4130". It has some tabs on the deck so I suspect it originally had a set of pickle tanks as a load. Hopefully I will be able to find some additional parts for this car in a box somewhere, but I'm not holding my breath!

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Scott H. Haycock
 

Hello Charlie,
Do you still have those photos?




Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

----- Original Message -----





Bill and all
Yes, you are correct. Con-Cor bought all the Revell tooling. They even did a run of CB&Q flats although Jim insisted on doing them in Black when they should have been Oxide. I provided him with photos and numbers when I was working at JMC
Not all the Revell stuff was brought out.
The UP caboose, reefer, box, tank?and stock car weren't run AFAIK.
The tooling was in massive die bases that only a few injection molders had machines large enough to run them.
Charlie Vlk
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


O Fenton Wells
 

If I remember correctly when the prototype movement first started these
cars were prized for their close to prototype length of 53'-6" At the time
Athearn was at 50'-0" which was an uncommon length for a standard flatcar.
These cars were sought out because of that. I also remember Bob Smaus, a
California modeler often seen in MR at the time, sold one on eBay a year
ago, a UP car that look very nice that was of this heritage. I don't know
what exact prototype is closest but I'm sure this question you posted to
this group you will get you some more specific answers.
I guess my answer is more on the line of what do you want to do? Do you
enjoy kitbashing? I don't think that in this case it will be more than a
little research and some decals, paint, couplers and a few detail parts to
result in a good looking model.
I hope this helps
Fenton Wells

On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 1:23 AM, Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...>wrote:

**


Going through a box of old stuff, I came across an old Revell flatcar body
about 54 feet long. Is this car representative of any prototype? I haven't
found anything but the body- no frame. If this car is worth fixing up,is
there a current flatcar model that would have the correct type of frame for
this car?
Thanks

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent
----- Original Message -----

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

I've always liked the two Concor variants of this car -- one was a
calcium carbide cannister flat, and the other a model of an N&W log
flat. I've never figured out how to mass produce the cannisters so
I could build the car with a load... These variants are probably the
best choice for kitbashes, since they have no stake pockets.

Tim O'Connor

If this is the same tooling that Con-Cor used, then it is very close if not actually a CB&Q flat. I used the Con-Cor model to build a CB&Q car based on an article somewhere, mainly removing cast-on details and replacing them with stand off grabs, sturdy metal sill steps, etc and weathering the deck. This was in the early or mid-1990s.

Bill Welch


Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

For reasons now forgotten I mailed an inquiry to Con-Cor about the flat car being discussed, sometime between June 1982 and September 1986. Con-Cor was, at that time, partly in Illinois and partly in Arizona.

Someone from Con-Cor called me to answer my question. Discussion ensued and the gentleman told me Con-Cor had made a new underframe for the flat car. He sent me one gratis.

I presume all subsequent deliveries of the Revell/Con-Cor flat car included the revised underframe.

Gene Green


North Model Railroad Supplies <nmrs@...>
 

Going through a box of old stuff, I came across an old Revell flatcar body
about 54 feet long. Is this car representative of any prototype? I haven't
found anything but the body- no frame. If this car is worth fixing up,is
there a current flatcar model that would have the correct type of frame for
this car?
Thanks
Scott Haycock



I don't know the prototype, but I think this car was re-released by Con Cor?

Other may confirm or refute this.

If I'm right, you could check with them for an underframe.

Cheers

Dave North


Scott H. Haycock
 

Thanks Dave
What I would do if I can find prototype plans or info on a suitable car for this model to represent, would be to scratchbuild the underframe and upgrade the body to current standards. While I try to build my models as accurately as is practical, I'm not a rivet counter in the sense some people are; after all, I build my models to operate,not as contest entries. So close enough works for me, especially on an older car like this one.
I will look at the M.M. plans I referenced in a previous post and see if this will be close enough, unless more accurate info surfaces.


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

----- Original Message -----





Going through a box of old stuff, I came across an old Revell flatcar body
about 54 feet long. Is this car representative of any prototype? I haven't
found anything but the body- no frame. If this car is worth fixing up,is
there a current flatcar model that would have the correct type of frame for
this car?
Thanks
Scott Haycock

I don't know the prototype, but I think this car was re-released by Con Cor?

Other may confirm or refute this.

If I'm right, you could check with them for an underframe.

Cheers

Dave North

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Richard Townsend
 

I asked on the CBQ list about the car, and Jerry Hamsmith referred me to his July 1991 Mainline Modeler article on converting the Con-cor car to a CB&Q FM-13.

As for the underframe, I'd start with the Con-Cor underframe since it's for the same car. If that is no good I'd look at bashing one from whatever fishbelly underframe looks good. I'd first check the Athearn 50-foot flat undeframe, then their 40-foot. If either works it will require two. I'd also look at the Athearn express reefer underframe, and maybe even the MDC express reefer. I have no idea if any of these would work, but it's where I would start. Actually, I just looked at the Hamsmith article and he used the Con-cor underframe, but substituted the bolsters and coupler pockets from the Athearn 50-foot underframe (part # 14003) in place of those parts of the underframe on his Con-cor car.

Of course, if you buy the Con-cor car for the underframe you may as well just use the whole car. The Revell version has the advantage of ends, as I believe the Con-cor car has none. I'll bet spliced Athearn 50-foot underframes would work well and you wouldn't be buying a whole new car. The car itself has deep fishbelly sides so the underframe isn't going to show much anyway.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: lnbill <fgexbill@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sat, Feb 2, 2013 4:12 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Revell Flatcar





If this is the same tooling that Con-Cor used, then it is very close if not actually a CB&Q flat. I used the Con-Cor model to build a CB&Q car based on an article somewhere, mainly removing cast-on details and replacing them with stand off grabs, sturdy metal sill steps, etc and weathering the deck. This was in the early or mid-1990s.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Scott H. Haycock " wrote:

Going through a box of old stuff, I came across an old Revell flatcar body about 54 feet long. Is this car representative of any prototype? I haven't found anything but the body- no frame. If this car is worth fixing up,is there a current flatcar model that would have the correct type of frame for this car?
Thanks

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent
----- Original Message -----













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Steven D Johnson
 

There's an article in the November 1987 issue of MODEL RAILROADING magazine
on upgrading the Revell/Con-Con HO model. The article says it's very
close to some CB&Q, CGW, NKP and C&O prototypes with plain stake pockets and
to a ATSF car with three ribs on each stake pocket, and very close to a
welded GN car.



Steve Johnson





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
North Model Railroad Supplies
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:49 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Revell Flatcar





Going through a box of old stuff, I came across an old Revell flatcar body
about 54 feet long. Is this car representative of any prototype? I haven't
found anything but the body- no frame. If this car is worth fixing up,is
there a current flatcar model that would have the correct type of frame for
this car?
Thanks
Scott Haycock

I don't know the prototype, but I think this car was re-released by Con Cor?

Other may confirm or refute this.

If I'm right, you could check with them for an underframe.

Cheers

Dave North


Scott H. Haycock
 

Thanks, Steve
I have that issue! I'll read the article when I have time. Unfortunately, this issue isn't available on the TrainLife site.


Scott Haycock

----- Original Message -----





There's an article in the November 1987 issue of MODEL RAILROADING magazine
on upgrading the Revell/Con-Con HO model. The article says it's very
close to some CB&Q, CGW, NKP and C&O prototypes with plain stake pockets and
to a ATSF car with three ribs on each stake pocket, and very close to a
welded GN car.

Steve Johnson


Scott H. Haycock
 

Thanks Richard
I pulled that issue and it includes a drawing, including the underframe. I believe I now have everything I need to build a credible model.
Thanks to all who responded!


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

----- Original Message -----






I asked on the CBQ list about the car, and Jerry Hamsmith referred me to his July 1991 Mainline Modeler article on converting the Con-cor car to a CB&Q FM-13.

<snip>


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Tim O'Connor
 

Rich, I don't think any flatcar ever built had an underframe that
looked like Athearn's. They put fishbelly underframes under their
gondola and flat car -- cars that had fishbelly sides for strength!

Tim O'

I asked on the CBQ list about the car, and Jerry Hamsmith referred me to his July 1991 Mainline Modeler article on converting the Con-cor car to a CB&Q FM-13.

As for the underframe, I'd start with the Con-Cor underframe since it's for the same car. If that is no good I'd look at bashing one from whatever fishbelly underframe looks good. I'd first check the Athearn 50-foot flat undeframe, then their 40-foot. If either works it will require two. I'd also look at the Athearn express reefer underframe, and maybe even the MDC express reefer. I have no idea if any of these would work, but it's where I would start. Actually, I just looked at the Hamsmith article and he used the Con-cor underframe, but substituted the bolsters and coupler pockets from the Athearn 50-foot underframe (part # 14003) in place of those parts of the underframe on his Con-cor car.

Of course, if you buy the Con-cor car for the underframe you may as well just use the whole car. The Revell version has the advantage of ends, as I believe the Con-cor car has none. I'll bet spliced Athearn 50-foot underframes would work well and you wouldn't be buying a whole new car. The car itself has deep fishbelly sides so the underframe isn't going to show much anyway.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Richard Townsend
 

Yet the photos and plans for the CB&Q FM-13 flat car, which has fishbelly sides, show a fishbelly underframe. And I think some other roads' flats with fishbelly sides also had fishbelly underframes. The next class of CB&Q flatcars, the FM-14, did away with the fishbelly sides.

As for whether the Atherarn underframe is close to what the FM-13 had, I don't have one so I can't say.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sun, Feb 3, 2013 8:07 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Revell Flatcar






Rich, I don't think any flatcar ever built had an underframe that
looked like Athearn's. They put fishbelly underframes under their
gondola and flat car -- cars that had fishbelly sides for strength!

Tim O'









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Scott H. Haycock
 

The drawing of the CB&Q FM-13 flatcar clearly shows a fishbelly underframe. So does the CN&W Pullman standard car in the article (with photos) in the article by Hundman, Keyser and Hendrickson.


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

----- Original Message -----






Rich, I don't think any flatcar ever built had an underframe that
looked like Athearn's. They put fishbelly underframes under their
gondola and flat car -- cars that had fishbelly sides for strength!

Tim O'





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Guy Wilber
 

Tim wrote:




"Rich, I don't think any flatcar ever built had an underframe that
looked like Athearn's. They put fishbelly underframes under their
gondola and flat car -- cars that had fishbelly sides for strength!"

Tim,


Are you are stating that flats with fish-belly side sills weren't equipped with fish-belly center sills? If so, you are incorrect. The vast majority of flats, regardless of the length, built from the 1930s forward were designed with fish-belly side sills and center sills. Flat car designs with straight side sills and fish-belly center sills were vulnerable to twist which weakened and cracked the the side sills which were usually constructed of 12" or 13" channels, thus the movement towards the fish-belly side sills.

While it may be true that the center sills and underframe configuration may not have looked like Athearn's, it is more accurate than a straight center sill coupled with fish-belly side sills. The original Revell underframe was cast metal and was used on both the flat and gondola. I don't remember if it was a fish-belly design, only reason I still have mine is they were both part of my original train set that I have saved for prosperity, but not modeling.

Good luck to Scott, with some effort he'll probably come up with a nice model.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Scott H. Haycock
 

Another point here, is that on most freight cars, the center sill is the structural member that supports the load. The side sills keep the outer ends of everything- cross bearers, floor boards, etc.- in alignment. On house cars, hoppers and gondolas, the body and side sills in combination act as a girder, allowing for thinner cross-section members in the side sills. On flatcars, only the side sills have to provide the needed strength. On gondolas, I suspect, a fish-belly side sill would be used because of the distortions in the body sides caused by the way these cars are loaded, causing the body-as-girder design to be less reliable.


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

----- Original Message -----







The vast majority of flats, regardless of the length, built from the 1930s forward were designed with fish-belly side sills and center sills. Flat car designs with straight side sills and fish-belly center sills were vulnerable to twist which weakened and cracked the the side sills which were usually constructed of 12" or 13" channels, thus the movement towards the fish-belly side sills.


Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


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