Topics

Ford Auto Part Shipments


Guy Wilber
 

All,

I am seeking information on the traffic patterns for auto parts out of Ford's Rouge plant to their assembly plant in Seattle, WA (circa 1930). Rail mileage listed within one publication I found is listed at 2,359 miles with a time (point to point) of around ten days in 1930. The article also noted that Ford favored shipping into Ohio for both Eastern and Western final destinations.

I would like to know the most logical carrier(s) out of the Detroit area and location(s) where auto cars may have been interchanged to, and hauled west, via the Northern Pacific.

Any information or leads would be greatly appreciated and Thank You,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada














[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Guy,

The two most likely carriers would be either Pere Marquette (after 1948 it would be the C&O) or the New York Central. Both lines served the River Rouge plant. Now that I think of it, in 1930 the Detroit, Toledo and Ironton might also have carried some traffic down to the PRR in Ohio, and thence to Chicago. For a while the DT&I was owned by Ford, so it would be a logical road to carry Ford's traffic. After Ford sold out, the DT&I came under the control of the Pennsy. However, the PRR did not serve the Rouge plant. The closest the PRR got to Detroit was the Wabash yard in Allen Park, and their passenger trains used trackage rights on the Wabash to access the Fort Street Station. I don't believe that the Wabash served the Ford Plant, but my memory is hazy these days.


 
Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA



________________________________
From: Guy Wilber <guycwilber@aol.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 5:55 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments


 


All,

I am seeking information on the traffic patterns for auto parts out of Ford's Rouge plant to their assembly plant in Seattle, WA (circa 1930). Rail mileage listed within one publication I found is listed at 2,359 miles with a time (point to point) of around ten days in 1930. The article also noted that Ford favored shipping into Ohio for both Eastern and Western final destinations.

I would like to know the most logical carrier(s) out of the Detroit area and location(s) where auto cars may have been interchanged to, and hauled west, via the Northern Pacific.

Any information or leads would be greatly appreciated and Thank You,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Brad Andonian
 

Guy,
 
Funny you should mention this; the Ford assembly plant was located about 1/2 mile from my store here in seattle.   The building remains and is a Public Storage facility.   The district is just north of downtown in what we call South Lake Union; amazon has moved here, Gates foundation and the Univ of Washington has a campus.    
 
Brad Andonian


________________________________
From: Guy Wilber <guycwilber@aol.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 5:55 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments


 



All,

I am seeking information on the traffic patterns for auto parts out of Ford's Rouge plant to their assembly plant in Seattle, WA (circa 1930). Rail mileage listed within one publication I found is listed at 2,359 miles with a time (point to point) of around ten days in 1930. The article also noted that Ford favored shipping into Ohio for both Eastern and Western final destinations.

I would like to know the most logical carrier(s) out of the Detroit area and location(s) where auto cars may have been interchanged to, and hauled west, via the Northern Pacific.

Any information or leads would be greatly appreciated and Thank You,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Larry Wolohon
 

Guy,

I didn't even know that Ford had an assembly plant in Seattle, Wa. It doesn't show up in Wikipedia as a place that Ford had an assembly plant. However, my dad told me that Ford had an assembly plant in Denver, Co, where I was raised & that doesn't show up either in Wikipedia.

However the main lines that serviced/service the Rouge Plant in Dearborn were/are Pere Marquette, C&O after 1947 & the DT&I, which at one time was owned by Henry Ford in the 1920's. The PM has a yard in Dearborn, known as Rougemere, still in use by CSX. The PM went from Dearborn to Toledo, Oh or west to Chicago via Lansing & Grand Rapids, Mi. This was kind of a circuitous route, but this would all be on the PM. If PM ran to Toledo, they could have interchanged with NYC or some of the other roads that went through Toledo. The DT&I ran basically south from Dearborn, It could have interchanged with the Wabash in the Detroit area, the roads that went through Toledo or Lima, OH to interchange with the PRR as DT&I at one time was controlled by the PRR. If the Ford traffic ended up on the NP to Seattle, the routing out of Chicago could have been on the CB&Q to Saint Paul & then to the NP as the GN/NP controlled the CB&Q at this time.

Larry Wolohon/Retired from FoMoCo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Wilber" <guycwilber@aol.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:55:35 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments








All,

I am seeking information on the traffic patterns for auto parts out of Ford's Rouge plant to their assembly plant in Seattle, WA (circa 1930). Rail mileage listed within one publication I found is listed at 2,359 miles with a time (point to point) of around ten days in 1930. The article also noted that Ford favored shipping into Ohio for both Eastern and Western final destinations.

I would like to know the most logical carrier(s) out of the Detroit area and location(s) where auto cars may have been interchanged to, and hauled west, via the Northern Pacific.

Any information or leads would be greatly appreciated and Thank You,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Guy Wilber
 

Larry wrote:

"I didn't even know that Ford had an assembly plant in Seattle, Wa. It doesn't show up in Wikipedia as a place that Ford had an assembly plant. However, my dad told me that Ford had an assembly plant in Denver, Co, where I was raised & that doesn't show up either in Wikipedia."

Larry,

Ford opened the Seattle assembly plant in 1913 and operated that facility until the introduction of the Model A in 1928 when they opened a new facility. The latter only operated a short while due to the depression, but there are conflicting "facts" as to when it closed.

Thanks for you input regarding the traffic out of the Detroit area.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada














[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tom Vanwormer
 

Folks,
Ford also had a plant in San Pedro CA, on the LA-LB port area. Did Ford
have any other plants along the West Coast?
Thanks,
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

Guy Wilber wrote:




Larry wrote:

"I didn't even know that Ford had an assembly plant in Seattle, Wa. It
doesn't show up in Wikipedia as a place that Ford had an assembly
plant. However, my dad told me that Ford had an assembly plant in
Denver, Co, where I was raised & that doesn't show up either in
Wikipedia."

Larry,

Ford opened the Seattle assembly plant in 1913 and operated that
facility until the introduction of the Model A in 1928 when they
opened a new facility. The latter only operated a short while due to
the depression, but there are conflicting "facts" as to when it closed.

Thanks for you input regarding the traffic out of the Detroit area.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada



water.kresse@...
 

1) GM had close by plant at Norwalk early on also. 



2)  I thought the Pennsy also had a yard on the north side of the Rouge plant. 



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----


From: "Tom Vanwormer" <robsmom@pcisys.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:23:48 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments

Folks,
Ford also had a plant in San Pedro CA, on the LA-LB port area.  Did Ford
have any other plants along the West Coast?
Thanks,
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

Guy Wilber wrote:

 


Larry wrote:

"I didn't even know that Ford had an assembly plant in Seattle, Wa. It
doesn't show up in Wikipedia as a place that Ford had an assembly
plant. However, my dad told me that Ford had an assembly plant in
Denver, Co, where I was raised & that doesn't show up either in
Wikipedia."

Larry,

Ford opened the Seattle assembly plant in 1913 and operated that
facility until the introduction of the Model A in 1928 when they
opened a new facility. The latter only operated a short while due to
the depression, but there are conflicting "facts" as to when it closed.

Thanks for you input regarding the traffic out of the Detroit area.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Guy Wilber
 

Tom asked:




"Ford also had a plant in San Pedro CA, on the LA-LB port area. Did Ford
have any other plants along the West Coast?"



Seattle
Portland
San Francisco
Richmond
Long Beach
Los Angeles
Salt Lake City, though it was a service plant, not a full assembly plant.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


water.kresse@...
 

Guy,



Did they send out sub-assemblies, kits or just carloads of parts?



Al

----- Original Message -----


From: "Guy Wilber" <guycwilber@aol.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:37:19 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments


Tom asked:




"Ford also had a plant in San Pedro CA, on the LA-LB port area.  Did Ford
have any other plants along the West Coast?"



Seattle
Portland
San Francisco
Richmond
Long Beach
Los Angeles
Salt Lake City, though it was a service plant, not a full assembly plant.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada






    
            

  
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Guy Wilber
 

Al,

All of the above. I am still breaking down the various components along with what went where. It is also geared toward the years of production. I am specifically focusing on Seattle, 1930, at this moment as I am helping members of one of the NP museums gather information for a display in order to procure funding for the project.

Guy

-----Original Message-----
From: water.kresse <water.kresse@comcast.net>
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Feb 16, 2013 10:40 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments







Guy,

Did they send out sub-assemblies, kits or just carloads of parts?

Al

----- Original Message -----

From: "Guy Wilber" guycwilber@aol.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:37:19 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments

Tom asked:

"Ford also had a plant in San Pedro CA, on the LA-LB port area. Did Ford
have any other plants along the West Coast?"

Seattle
Portland
San Francisco
Richmond
Long Beach
Los Angeles
Salt Lake City, though it was a service plant, not a full assembly plant.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
 

At 10:23 AM 2/16/2013, Tom Vanwormer wrote:
Ford also had a plant in San Pedro CA, on the LA-LB port area. Did Ford
have any other plants along the West Coast?
Complete? list here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_factories

In the San Francisco area...
Richmond - 1930-1956 (now "Rosie the Riveter" National Historical Park)
Milpitas - 1955 - 1984 (now the "Great Mall")

In the Bay Area, there was also a Chevrolet plant in south Oakland (1916 - 1963 to Fremont),
and a Chrysler plant in San Leandro (1929-1955).
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_automotive_manufacturing_plants

Excellent news for STMFC consists...!


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------


Larry Wolohon
 

Al,

NYC, Michigan Central had a yard, Livernois, I think, northeast of the Rouge plant, not connected directly with the Rouge plant. PRR didn't have a huge presence in Detroit they came in on the Wabash, I believe. NYC was the big road in the Detroit area.

Larry Wolohon

----- Original Message -----
From: "water kresse" <water.kresse@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:37:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments








1) GM had close by plant at Norwalk early on also.

2) I thought the Pennsy also had a yard on the north side of the Rouge plant.

Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----

From: "Tom Vanwormer" robsmom@pcisys.net >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:23:48 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments

Folks,
Ford also had a plant in San Pedro CA, on the LA-LB port area. Did Ford
have any other plants along the West Coast?
Thanks,
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

Guy Wilber wrote:




Larry wrote:

"I didn't even know that Ford had an assembly plant in Seattle, Wa. It
doesn't show up in Wikipedia as a place that Ford had an assembly
plant. However, my dad told me that Ford had an assembly plant in
Denver, Co, where I was raised & that doesn't show up either in
Wikipedia."

Larry,

Ford opened the Seattle assembly plant in 1913 and operated that
facility until the introduction of the Model A in 1928 when they
opened a new facility. The latter only operated a short while due to
the depression, but there are conflicting "facts" as to when it closed.

Thanks for you input regarding the traffic out of the Detroit area.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tom Vanwormer wrote:
Ford also had a plant in San Pedro CA, on the LA-LB port area. Did Ford have any other plants along the West Coast?
There was a plant at Richmond, Calif., right at the harbor. It is still standing, though of course repurposed. I was just there last week.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


water.kresse@...
 

I believe Detroit had a beltway railway line over to the Grand Trunk tying those all together.  Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: larrywolohon@comcast.net
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 2:18:28 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments

Al,

NYC, Michigan Central had a yard, Livernois, I think, northeast of the Rouge plant, not connected directly with the Rouge plant. PRR didn't have a huge presence in Detroit they came in on the Wabash, I believe. NYC was the big road in the Detroit area.

Larry Wolohon

----- Original Message -----
From: "water kresse" <water.kresse@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:37:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments








1) GM had close by plant at Norwalk early on also.

2) I thought the Pennsy also had a yard on the north side of the Rouge plant.

Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----

From: "Tom Vanwormer" robsmom@pcisys.net >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:23:48 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments

Folks,
Ford also had a plant in San Pedro CA, on the LA-LB port area. Did Ford
have any other plants along the West Coast?
Thanks,
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

Guy Wilber wrote:




Larry wrote:

"I didn't even know that Ford had an assembly plant in Seattle, Wa. It
doesn't show up in Wikipedia as a place that Ford had an assembly
plant. However, my dad told me that Ford had an assembly plant in
Denver, Co, where I was raised & that doesn't show up either in
Wikipedia."

Larry,

Ford opened the Seattle assembly plant in 1913 and operated that
facility until the introduction of the Model A in 1928 when they
opened a new facility. The latter only operated a short while due to
the depression, but there are conflicting "facts" as to when it closed.

Thanks for you input regarding the traffic out of the Detroit area.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


cinderandeight@...
 

Guy,
The main roads serving Ford's Rouge plant were the PMRR and DT&I.
Ford bought the DT&I, and up graded the road with an eye toward it being the
primary shipper going south into Ohio. In that state the DT&I, crossed
every east-west truck line allowing interchange to all point in either
direction, but the DT&I's route to Ohio was problematic, involving NYC trackage
rights, and even some street running in the Town of Tecumseh, MI..
When Henry got tired of playing trains he sold it to the PRR. He had
been a primary driving force in encouraging the PRR to enter the Detroit
market in order to weaken the NYC's strangle hold of freight traffic in
Detroit. The PRR actually had trackage rights through the PM's Rougemere yard
on a track toward the back side of the yard (nearest the plant), and PRR
style railing stanctions can be seen along this track in aerial views. The
PRR tracks then followed the PM north to a PRR west Detroit belt line that
ended finally at Ford's Highland park factory, allowing a direct route
between the two facilities.
The PRR had it's own hump yard just South of the Rouge complex in
Lincoln Park (Lincoln yard), but used the Wabash's Oakwood yard as it's engine
terminal. A good deal of the freight car traffic probably left town on
this line headed to Toledo and eventually the PRR's Fort Wayne main line
The DT&I under the PRR had many types of freight car that were either
built new for the road to PRR designs, or leased directly from the PRR.


Allen Rueter
 

Guy,
   The Rouge plant had the PM on the East side and MC on West and North sides, the PM was part
of the Union Belt of Detroit (PM,PRR,Wabash), and this was Zone 11. PM switched it,
but Way-Bills origins were written for any of the 3 members. The PM competed with the
Wabash+AA for auto traffic west across Lake Michigan, and both to Chicago.


Copeland Reports do show a lot of loads (per year) going from the DT&I to the Wabash

 in 1933 7800 @ Delta Yd OH, and 5800 @ Detroit, and 2500 Wabash > AA at Milan, MI

in 1938 14300 @ Delta Yd, and 7600 @ Detroit , and 2700 Wabash > AA
CNW & Milw seemed have more interchange at Chicago with the Wabash by a factor of 4 than the Q.

Hope that helps.

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


________________________________
From: Guy Wilber <guycwilber@aol.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 7:55 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments





All,

I am seeking information on the traffic patterns for auto parts out of Ford's Rouge plant to their assembly plant in Seattle, WA (circa 1930).  Rail mileage listed within one publication I found is listed at 2,359 miles with a time (point to point) of around ten days in 1930.  The article also noted that Ford favored shipping into Ohio for both Eastern and Western final destinations.

I would like to know the most logical carrier(s) out of the Detroit area and location(s) where auto cars may have been interchanged to, and hauled west, via the Northern Pacific.

Any information or leads would be greatly appreciated and Thank You,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Allen Rueter
 

Al,
   The Pennsy Yard (Oakman) was a bit further north, Zone 15 in the Union Belt of Detroit.

 
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


________________________________
From: "water.kresse@comcast.net" <water.kresse@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments


 


1) GM had close by plant at Norwalk early on also. 

2)  I thought the Pennsy also had a yard on the north side of the Rouge plant. 

Al Kresse

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


CJ Riley
 

There was another Ford plant that I toured as a Cub (Boy?) Scout in the early '50s, in Milpitas, I believe.

CJ Riley

Bainbridge Island WA


There was a plant at Richmond, Calif., right at the harbor. It is still standing, though of course repurposed. I was just there last week.


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railsnw@frontier.com <railsnw@...>
 

Is it Toppenish? They have an NP Auto Boxcar.

Richard Wilkens

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Guy Wilber <guycwilber@...> wrote:


Al,

All of the above. I am still breaking down the various components along with what went where. It is also geared toward the years of production. I am specifically focusing on Seattle, 1930, at this moment as I am helping members of one of the NP museums gather information for a display in order to procure funding for the project.

Guy


-----Original Message-----
From: water.kresse <water.kresse@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Feb 16, 2013 10:40 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments







Guy,

Did they send out sub-assemblies, kits or just carloads of parts?

Al

----- Original Message -----

From: "Guy Wilber" guycwilber@...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:37:19 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments

Tom asked:

"Ford also had a plant in San Pedro CA, on the LA-LB port area. Did Ford
have any other plants along the West Coast?"

Seattle
Portland
San Francisco
Richmond
Long Beach
Los Angeles
Salt Lake City, though it was a service plant, not a full assembly plant.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


midrly <midrly@...>
 

AFAIK Livernois was the major NYC yard in Detroit.

To this day, the Conrail Shared Assets belt line (ex-NYC) crosses CN (GTW) at Forest Lawn, just north of the GTW East Detroit yard.

http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRHX/Stations/CountyStations/WayneStations/DetroitTerminal/ForestLawnMI.htm

As for Rougemere, Pere Marquette/C&O took traffic from this yard.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, water.kresse@... wrote:

I believe Detroit had a beltway railway line over to the Grand Trunk tying those all together.  Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: larrywolohon@...
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 2:18:28 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments

Al,

NYC, Michigan Central had a yard, Livernois, I think, northeast of the Rouge plant, not connected directly with the Rouge plant. PRR didn't have a huge presence in Detroit they came in on the Wabash, I believe. NYC was the big road in the Detroit area.

Larry Wolohon

----- Original Message -----
From: "water kresse" <water.kresse@...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:37:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments








1) GM had close by plant at Norwalk early on also.

2) I thought the Pennsy also had a yard on the north side of the Rouge plant.

Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----

From: "Tom Vanwormer" robsmom@... >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:23:48 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ford Auto Part Shipments

Folks,
Ford also had a plant in San Pedro CA, on the LA-LB port area. Did Ford
have any other plants along the West Coast?
Thanks,
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

Guy Wilber wrote:




Larry wrote:

"I didn't even know that Ford had an assembly plant in Seattle, Wa. It
doesn't show up in Wikipedia as a place that Ford had an assembly
plant. However, my dad told me that Ford had an assembly plant in
Denver, Co, where I was raised & that doesn't show up either in
Wikipedia."

Larry,

Ford opened the Seattle assembly plant in 1913 and operated that
facility until the introduction of the Model A in 1928 when they
opened a new facility. The latter only operated a short while due to
the depression, but there are conflicting "facts" as to when it closed.

Thanks for you input regarding the traffic out of the Detroit area.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]