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New Haven GA-2 Gondola Lettering Question's
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erict1361 <erict1361@...>
Would anyone know what year the "New York, New Haven and Hartford" Script lettering was added to GA-2 Gondola's ? What Years did just "NEW HAVEN" appear on the car sides? I am building one of the F&C GA-2 Flat Bottom kits and there are Photos, but not the years the lettering was used? The Script lettering instruction sheet photo has a Re-weigh date of 11-54. It looks like the " NEW HAVEN" lettering came before the Script version? I want to know if One or Both Versions were in use in the Late 1940's?
Thanks, Eric Thur |
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Germain Golembowski <golembo@...>
Prior to 1955 the 58000 GA-2 just had New Haven spelled out on the sides.. This class was sold to International car rebuilding and was returned to the New Haven in late 1955 as class 59000 with the Red/Orange NH on the side... I can find no photos of a script herald applied prior to 1955... Hope this helps..
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G A "Jerry" Golembowski Grandy, NC ----- Original Message -----
From: erict1361<mailto:erict1361@...> To: STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...> Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 10:00 AM Subject: [STMFC] New Haven GA-2 Gondola Lettering Question's Would anyone know what year the "New York, New Haven and Hartford" Script lettering was added to GA-2 Gondola's ? What Years did just "NEW HAVEN" appear on the car sides? I am building one of the F&C GA-2 Flat Bottom kits and there are Photos, but not the years the lettering was used? The Script lettering instruction sheet photo has a Re-weigh date of 11-54. It looks like the " NEW HAVEN" lettering came before the Script version? I want to know if One or Both Versions were in use in the Late 1940's? Thanks, Eric Thur |
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al_brown03
In the Harrisburg book, p 192, is a photo of NH 58012 dated 3/23/47. It has plain "NEW HAVEN" lettering, no script herald.
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Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. --- In STMFC@..., "Germain Golembowski" <golembo@...> wrote:
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The RPI site has a pic of the script herald. I imagine using the script herald from the hopper set, from this company, would work.
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http://www.raildetail.com/Decals.html Rich Christie --- On Tue, 3/5/13, al_brown03 <abrown@...> wrote:
From: al_brown03 <abrown@...> Subject: [STMFC] Re: New Haven GA-2 Gondola Lettering Question's To: STMFC@... Date: Tuesday, March 5, 2013, 7:23 PM In the Harrisburg book, p 192, is a photo of NH 58012 dated 3/23/47. It has plain "NEW HAVEN" lettering, no script herald. Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. --- In STMFC@..., "Germain Golembowski" wrote:
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Don <riverman_vt@...>
I believe we are speaking of the New Haven's #58000 amd #59000 series Class GA-2 gons here. Can't say that I have ever seen a photo of one with the script herald. The #58000 series cars carried the "New Haven" written out on the sides and all went through a rebuilding program by the International Railway Car Co. in 1955 and 1956. When returned they carried numbers in the #59000 series and the red "N" above the red "H" in the 2nd and 3rd panels from the right.
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New Haven surviving Class GA-3 gons went through much the same, if not the same, program in this same time period, losing their four drop bottom doors and gaining a new floor in the process. Like the GA-2's, they were renumbered from the #60000 - #61249 series into the #61000 series and acquired the same McGinnis paint. In both cases I think application of the script herald is doubtful at best or at least exceedingly rare. Cordially, Don Valentine --- In STMFC@..., "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:
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al_brown03
As Mr Christie points out, the RPI site has a photo of a 58000 series gon with a script herald (go to Gons, 40-foot steel, and IIRC ten panels). The picture shows a re-weigh date of '52.
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Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. --- In STMFC@..., "Don" <riverman_vt@...> wrote:
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Don <riverman_vt@...>
Thanks Al,
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I will try to check out that photo. I have a call in to Steve Funaro on another matter and weill see what light he may shed on the question as well, hav ing a number of the GA-2's on order with him. The 1952 date, however, does not surprise me if such a paint and lettering plan were to be used at all. It would have required an expenditure for design no mattyer how small. That was far less likely to have occurred under the elder Dumaine, who died in 1951, than it was under his son, Frederic C. "Bucky" Dumaine, Jr., who did his best to revive the New Haven after his father's death. But I wonder how many GA-2's, or even the GA-3's, might have had a script herald applied and, as I think, if it only occured between 1951 and the McGinnis disaster. cordially, Don Valentine --- In STMFC@..., "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:
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rhammill
Very interesting...
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I think the c'52 date on the RPI site with a script herald makes sense. The reweigh date isn't very clear, but seems to be '52 or '53 to me. The F&C instructions also include a photo with the script herald in work service X-579. The Cedar Hill reweigh date is CH 11 54. This photo is also in Bob Liljestrand's book on NH Work Equipment and states it's oxide red. Almost all of the gondolas in the 58000- and 60000-series were converted from drop bottom to solid bottom between 1948 and 1951. It wouldn't surprise me if they received a coat of paint at the same time. During this era there was no 59000-series as that number series was populated when the 58000-series was rebuilt in 1955-56. I think that the most likely cars to have the script herald were those rebuilt in '53 and '54, although the RPI photo shows that it might have started in '52. The Pullman Standard hoppers delivered in '43 wore Oxide Red with a small script herald when new. I don't find it a stretch that they were painting gondolas in the same scheme. The fact that we have photos of in service and work equipment confirms that at least a couple received the scheme. What was the difference in the two rebuilds? I don't know. According to the ORER they had steel floors after they removed the drop doors in the 1948-1954 period. Comparing the photos in Postwar Freight Car fleet (58012 in 1947, pre-rebuild), RPI (58182, post first rebuild), NH Color Guide (58141 post first rebuild, '52 reweigh in black with block lettering) and 59149 (post second rebuild) there are very subtle differences. It appears that after the first rebuild, external tie downs were added to panels 1,3,5,7,9 (from the left) and the ends. These are missing on the post-55 rebuild, but they have a heavier top chord that also has a slight cutout on the top shord to acommodate the grabs. The brake gear all appears to be in the same location. Other than the floor, the F&C kit looks to be most accurate for the pre-'47 cars (which according to F&C will be released in the near future). Adding your own tie-downs would match the '48-'55 era. Some strip styrene to model the angled top chord would bring it in line with the post-'55 rebuild. None of these modifications would be very difficult. Also note that the instructions for the placement of the brake gear on the F&C instructions is incorrect. Looking at photos it's clear that the AB Valve is located on the same side and next to the reservoir. 1947 ORER 58000-58499 495 drop 60000-60649 643 drop from RPI site ('49 ORER, I think) 58000-58499 253 solid, 242 drop 60000-60649 not reported on RPI site 1950 ORER 58000-58499 361 solid, 134 drop 60000-60498 411 solid, 82 drop 60500-60649 150 drop 1951 ORER 58000-58499 464 solid, 31 drop 60000-60498 459 solid, 34 drop 60500-60498 150 solid Those are the only ORERs I have at hand right now. Perhaps somebody else can fill in the period from '51 to the second rebuilding in '55. Happy modeling! Randy Hammill -- http://newbritainstation.com Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954 -- True Line Trains http://truelinetrains.com --- In STMFC@..., Rich C <rhcdmc@...> wrote:
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al_brown03
--- In STMFC@..., "rhammill" <randy@...> wrote:
1947 ORER1/1953 ORER 58000-58499 464 solid 60000-60498 417 solid 60500-60649 113 drop Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. |
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