I have been using MEK as a styrene cement since reading Al Armitage's
1959article in MR. However, the last time I looked for it at our local (but
very complete) ACE hardware store, the clerk told me that it was not longer
available. A Google search lead to a number of modeler forums where some
respondents indicated that it was available and others asked if California
had banned it.

After not finding it at Lowe's or Home Depot, I went to the Klean-Strip
website a week ago since Klean-Strip is the brand name for MEK, acetone,
lacquer thinner, etc. commonly stocked around here. I then discovered that
California has banned MEK. Klean-Strip showed MEK as available but "Not for
sale in California".

No problem, I'll get some the next time I'm in Reno, NV. But in checking the
availability of MEK online at the Lowe's and Home Depot stores in Reno, I
found that none of those stores in Reno have it in stock. So, I went to back
to the Klean-Strip website yesterday and it is now listed as "Discontinued".

So, if you are fan of MEK, you might want to stock up. I have about a half
gallon left and, fortunately, all of the structures for my layout are done.
But I have a long list of YV freight cars I want to build from styrene...

Jack Burgess
Newark, CA

On 3/21/2013 6:58 AM, Jack Burgess wrote:

So, if you are fan of MEK, you might want to stock up.

This probably means all styrene glues will be banned also as they
all contain MEK.

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Folks,
MEK was banned in California by Proposition 65 passed in the late 80s.
It included a list of over a hundred compositions that the group backing
it decided were cancer "causers". It reality even today we don't know
if they cause cancer, but it is California, need I say more?
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO, formerly Huntington Beach CA

Jon Miller wrote:

<Folks,
<MEK was banned in California by Proposition 65 passed in the late 80s.
<It included a list of over a hundred compositions that the group backing
<it decided were cancer "causers". It reality even today we don't know
<if they cause cancer, but it is California, need I say more?
<Tom VanWormer
<Monument CO, formerly Huntington Beach CA

No, Proposition 65 (which I think was a stupid proposition) only required
businesses to post signs if any cancer "causer" were used in the business,
it didn't ban them. (MEK doesn't cause cancer.) But, from what I can find
out, MEK was banned by the California Air Resources Board due to
environmental effects, not health effects.

Jack Burgess

On 3/21/2013 8:27 AM, Tom Vanwormer wrote:

MEK was banned in California by Proposition 65 passed in the late 80s

I have a lot of reviews that say MEK doesn't cause cancer however
MEK has been available in all stores until I guess within the last year.
That said there may be some places that will still ship it to you, but
the cost is high. Lots of states don't care much for CA attitude. UPS
I believe ships all these type of things. I know ammo and all paints
(including spray cans) come by UPS.
On the other hand there is always AZ or Mexico(grin)!

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

--- In STMFC@..., Jon Miller <atsf@...> wrote:

I have a lot of reviews that say MEK doesn't cause cancer however
MEK has been available in all stores until I guess within the last year.
That said there may be some places that will still ship it to you, but
the cost is high.

Mc Master Carr lists MEK in quarts and gallons, but undoubtedly they will NOT ship to a California address. Typical shipping of flammables from Mc Master gets an extra charge for the paperwork that is required to accompany the shipment.

Dennis

On 3/21/2013 9:25 AM, soolinehistory wrote:

but undoubtedly they will NOT ship to a California address

Not to beat this subject to death but is it a city thing only? I
know there are lots of items I can get at my house in N CA that I can't
get in the bay area?
Maybe if we have it shipped by freight car.

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Jack,

Your note inspired to me to check out things here in Arkansas. Home Depot
does not carry it on their shelves. I stopped next door at Sherwin Williams
& picked up a gallon was I was there. They also have 5 gallon drums. So,
you might check out a paint store or a Marine store next time you are back
in Nevada.

Gene Semon

<Jack,
<
<Your note inspired to me to check out things here in Arkansas. Home
<Depot does not carry it on their shelves. I stopped next door at
<Sherwin Williams & picked up a gallon was I was there. They also have 5
<gallon drums. So, you might check out a paint store or a Marine store
<next time you are back in Nevada.
<
<Gene Semon

Good suggestion Gene...thanks!

Jack Burgess

I got some last month in Bakersfield at a paint store that deals with commercial accounts.  They had gallon pints and most likely larger sizes.  So you can still get it in California you just have to search.

Bill Vaughn


________________________________
From: Gene Semon <mopac1@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 12:08 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] MEK...


 
Jack,

Your note inspired to me to check out things here in Arkansas. Home Depot
does not carry it on their shelves. I stopped next door at Sherwin Williams
& picked up a gallon was I was there. They also have 5 gallon drums. So,
you might check out a paint store or a Marine store next time you are back
in Nevada.

Gene Semon

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Jack
Burgess
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:58 AM
To: Steam Era Freight Cars
Subject: [STMFC] MEK...

I have been using MEK as a styrene cement since reading Al Armitage's
1959article in MR. However, the last time I looked for it at our local (but
very complete) ACE hardware store, the clerk told me that it was not longer
available. A Google search lead to a number of modeler forums where some
respondents indicated that it was available and others asked if California
had banned it.

After not finding it at Lowe's or Home Depot, I went to the Klean-Strip
website a week ago since Klean-Strip is the brand name for MEK, acetone,
lacquer thinner, etc. commonly stocked around here. I then discovered that
California has banned MEK. Klean-Strip showed MEK as available but "Not for
sale in California".

No problem, I'll get some the next time I'm in Reno, NV. But in checking the
availability of MEK online at the Lowe's and Home Depot stores in Reno, I
found that none of those stores in Reno have it in stock. So, I went to back
to the Klean-Strip website yesterday and it is now listed as "Discontinued".

So, if you are fan of MEK, you might want to stock up. I have about a half
gallon left and, fortunately, all of the structures for my layout are done.
But I have a long list of YV freight cars I want to build from styrene...

Jack Burgess
Newark, CA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In STMFC@..., Tom Vanwormer <robsmom@...> wrote:

Folks,
MEK was banned in California by Proposition 65 passed in the late 80s.
It included a list of over a hundred compositions that the group backing
it decided were cancer "causers". It reality even today we don't know
if they cause cancer, but it is California, need I say more?
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO, formerly Huntington Beach CA

One is reminded of a famous quote from a well known photographer
of steam era freight cars in his The Provocative Pen of Lucius Beebe in which Beebe refered to California stating "It is akin to an asylum run by the inmates turned loose". All-in-all one of the funnier books I have read, especially his tale of Wakefield, Mass.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Tenax is methylene chloride so not all styrene glues are MEK.

MEK is also far more flammable than methylene chloride; both are fairly volatile which is annoying to both one's respiratory system as well as one's wallet as you watch the contents of your bottle evaporate.

MEK is also one of the few solvents that I do not keep in my chemistry labs.

As such, I use methylene chloride that I store in 20 mL scintillation vials fitted with polypropylene compression seal caps that eliminate evaporation loss.

Martin Brechbiel

--- In STMFC@..., "Martin Brechbiel" <martinwb@...> wrote:

Tenax is methylene chloride so not all styrene glues are MEK.

IIRC, methylene chloride is the solvent of choice for bonding acrylic; that must be why Tenax works so much better with ABS.

Dennis

IIRC, methylene chloride is the solvent of choice for bonding acrylic; that must be why Tenax works so much better with ABS.

Dennis

So using MEK to bond our styrene built freight cars (which is NON carcinogen) is worse for us than using Tenax which is considered a carcinogen!

"OSHA considers methylene chloride to be a potential occupational carcinogen"

The following site;
http://www.carolina.com/catalog/detail.jsp?prodId=875970&s_cid=ppc_gl_products&gclid=CMGqr5LQkLYCFad_Qgod6E0AhQ
has methylene chloride at $10.50 for 500mL and available now.
So we can still glue our styrene freight cars together, VBG!

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Jack,

There is no real MEK available in Reno, that which is listed as such is the MEK substitute. I have spoken with reps at Ace, Depot and Lowes and it is no longer offered by any of the stores here in Reno/Sparks area. Same situation at Kelly-Moore and several auto parts outlets.

Maybe someone can give us an analysis of the substitute to see if it would work for styrene construction.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think Microscale sells a citrus-based adhesive that supposedly works well on polystyrene, but not Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene (ABS)

<Jack,
<
<There is no real MEK available in Reno, that which is listed as such is
<the MEK substitute. I have spoken with reps at Ace, Depot and Lowes and
<it is no longer offered by any of the stores here in Reno/Sparks area.
<Same situation at Kelly-Moore and several auto parts outlets.
<
<Maybe someone can give us an analysis of the substitute to see if it
<would work for styrene construction.
<
<Guy Wilber
<Reno, Nevada

Nevada obviously doesn't have a MEK ban but the Klean-Strip website states that "Klean-Strip products can be found at most Ace Hardware, Wal-Mart, Lowes and Home Depot stores nationwide." Since these stores get their lacquer thinners and solvents from Klean-Strip and they have discontinued MEK, these stores are no longer carrying real MEK.

As far as the substitute, I got an offline e-mail yesterday from a friend who reported that he tried the MEK substitute and "[It didn't] even touch styrene."

Jack Burgess

Has liquid Testors been discontinued or something?! I don't understand all the angst over MEK.

Bill Welch

Cheaper by the gallon ; )

Nelson Moyer

<Has liquid Testors been discontinued or something?! I don't understand
<all the angst over MEK.
<
<Bill Welch

No, as far as I know, Testors is still around but Testors is just MEK with
some additives to slow down the evaporation rate (and keep kids for inhaling
it). I like the way MEK dries in 1-2 seconds. To me, the thinnest CA takes
forever to dry...

Jack Burgess