New Accurail kits for June.



Are these legitimate models of actual prototypes?



#48351 Pere Marquette

#4846 Pennsylvania



Close to each other at the lower right of this page:

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/4800.htm



Schuyler

Schuyler Larrabee asked:
"New Accurail kits for June.

Are these legitimate models of actual prototypes?

#48351 Pere Marquette
#4846 Pennsylvania

Close to each other at the lower right of this page:
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/4800.htm "

NO for PRR.  The only 40 ft reefers built for PRR before the formation of Fruit
Growers Express were the Class R7 single-sheathed cars.  There were intentions
to build reefers based on the Class X29 boxcar design, but these were never
built.


Ben Hom

Thanks, Ben, that's what I thought.


Now, anybody for Pere Marquette?

Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Benjamin Hom
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 9:37 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Curious about veracity





Schuyler Larrabee asked:
"New Accurail kits for June.

Are these legitimate models of actual prototypes?

#48351 Pere Marquette
#4846 Pennsylvania

Close to each other at the lower right of this page:
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/4800.htm "

NO for PRR. The only 40 ft reefers built for PRR before the formation of
Fruit
Growers Express were the Class R7 single-sheathed cars. There were
intentions
to build reefers based on the Class X29 boxcar design, but these were never
built.

Ben Hom

Where to begin?!

The paint and stenciling are correct for the PM car as build. 125 of these cars went to FGE in 1940 and were placed in their 16100-299 series. As built they had straight u/f's and hatch platforms. I am unsure about the roof except I know it was NOT the Hutchins roof on the Accurail car. Under FGE ownership they did receive the Hutchins roof and once rebuilt with these the cars looked exactly like the cars built by FGE and WFE to FGE's 1921 Design, as did the 49 similar cars FGE acquired from the C&O.

Ben's comments about the PRR model are accurate. However, one of the most obscure groups of cars owned by FGE were one hundred steel rebuilds w/R7 u/f's. With their flat plate steel ends they do resemble and X29 with reefer doors. I would love to see drawing of the intended PRR steel reefer--if they exist--to see if they might have inspired these rebuilds. These rebuilds had the typical FGE Hutchins roof. I have only three photos to document what cars looked like. One is New Haven I-79, a MOW car while another shows only the "B" end while in B&O Ice Service. A third shows an example being iced so it provides a good view of the roof. The lengths one has to go to document a car sometimes!

In Accurail's release there are also a FGE car and a WFE car, accurately lettered & numbered but the real cars did not have fishbelly u/f's. Both companies did own reefers w/fishbelly u/f's however. I am using a Westerfield Type I AC&F kit to model the WFE example and a thirdhand FGE series they received from the O&W. These had relatively short doors. B&O and FEC also furnished fishbelly types to FGE. These may have retained their original Murphy roofs and platforms surrounding the ice hatches. I have two undec. Branchline AC&F kits I intend to use to model these cars as their roof is easier to modify and the ends will not required any modification, plus that have separately applied details. Photo documentation is VERY sketchy on all of these.

Bill Welch

Thanks,, Bill, for a pretty comprehensive answer. Ultimately, the fishbelly
underframe could be minimized by the same technique we're using on the
current Shake'n'Take car, whether the overall underframe would be like that
project or not. At least, there'd be no fishbelly hanging down there. But
the roof's a conundrum, I suppose.



Schuyler





STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of lnbill
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 11:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Curious about veracity





Where to begin?!

The paint and stenciling are correct for the PM car as build. 125 of these
cars went to FGE in 1940 and were placed in their 16100-299 series. As built
they had straight u/f's and hatch platforms. I am unsure about the roof
except I know it was NOT the Hutchins roof on the Accurail car. Under FGE
ownership they did receive the Hutchins roof and once rebuilt with these the
cars looked exactly like the cars built by FGE and WFE to FGE's 1921 Design,
as did the 49 similar cars FGE acquired from the C&O.

Ben's comments about the PRR model are accurate. However, one of the most
obscure groups of cars owned by FGE were one hundred steel rebuilds w/R7
u/f's. With their flat plate steel ends they do resemble and X29 with reefer
doors. I would love to see drawing of the intended PRR steel reefer--if they
exist--to see if they might have inspired these rebuilds. These rebuilds had
the typical FGE Hutchins roof. I have only three photos to document what
cars looked like. One is New Haven I-79, a MOW car while another shows only
the "B" end while in B&O Ice Service. A third shows an example being iced so
it provides a good view of the roof. The lengths one has to go to document a
car sometimes!

In Accurail's release there are also a FGE car and a WFE car, accurately
lettered & numbered but the real cars did not have fishbelly u/f's. Both
companies did own reefers w/fishbelly u/f's however. I am using a
Westerfield Type I AC&F kit to model the WFE example and a thirdhand FGE
series they received from the O&W. These had relatively short doors. B&O and
FEC also furnished fishbelly types to FGE. These may have retained their
original Murphy roofs and platforms surrounding the ice hatches. I have two
undec. Branchline AC&F kits I intend to use to model these cars as their
roof is easier to modify and the ends will not required any modification,
plus that have separately applied details. Photo documentation is VERY
sketchy on all of these.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , Benjamin Hom
<b.hom@...> wrote:

Schuyler Larrabee asked:
"New Accurail kits for June.

Are these legitimate models of actual prototypes?

#48351 Pere Marquette
#4846 Pennsylvania

Close to each other at the lower right of this page:
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/4800.htm "

NO for PRR. The only 40 ft reefers built for PRR before the formation of

Fruit

Growers Express were the Class R7 single-sheathed cars. There were

intentions

to build reefers based on the Class X29 boxcar design, but these were

never

built.


Ben Hom

Bill Welch wrote:
"Ben's comments about the PRR model are accurate. However, one of the
most obscure groups of cars owned by FGE were one hundred steel
rebuilds w/R7 u/f's. With their flat plate steel ends they do resemble
and X29 with reefer doors. I would love to see drawing of the intended
PRR steel reefer--if they exist--to see if they might have inspired
these rebuilds."

Here are the equipment diagrams for Class R8 and R9, courtesy of Rob Schoenberg's website:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=R8_R8a-53073.gif&fr=cl
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=R9-E66490.gif&fr=cl


Ben Hom

According to the data in Westerfield kit #2752, the PRR number belongs to an RF, a double-sheathed reefer alright, but only 36' long.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Where to begin?!

The paint and stenciling are correct for the PM car as build.

Actually, the Accurail PM car's paint job matches the second lettering scheme they wore.

As built, they were delivered in one of the PM's pre-1930 schemes for house cars, as shown at http://www.fritzmilhaupt.com/decals/images/pm25010.gif

The scheme Accurail uses is appropriate for PM refrigerator cars after about the early 1930s. The diagram I have that shows the more modern lettering scheme is dated 1930, the year the new lettering scheme began appearing on newly-delivered rolling stock.

-Fritz Milhaupt
Modeling Editor, PM Historical Society, Inc.

Thanks, Fritz. Can you tell us how long that scheme was around in some
quantity?

Schuyler

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "lnbill"
<fgexbill@...> wrote:

Where to begin?!

The paint and stenciling are correct for the PM car as build.

Actually, the Accurail PM car's paint job matches the second lettering
scheme they wore.

As built, they were delivered in one of the PM's pre-1930 schemes for house
cars, as shown at http://www.fritzmilhaupt.com/decals/images/pm25010.gif

The scheme Accurail uses is appropriate for PM refrigerator cars after about
the early 1930s. The diagram I have that shows the more modern lettering
scheme is dated 1930, the year the new lettering scheme began appearing on
newly-delivered rolling stock.

-Fritz Milhaupt
Modeling Editor, PM Historical Society, Inc.

--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler.larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

Thanks, Fritz. Can you tell us how long that scheme was around in some
quantity?

Schuyler

Well, there's the problem- I have yet to see a photo of an actual PM reefer in the more modern paint and lettering scheme from the 1930 diagram. The few photos I've seen of PM reefers all show them in original (1924) paint, which is the basis for my decal set.

Based on that evidence, I'd be hard-pressed to say with any certainty that any of the cars were repainted to the more modern scheme before being converted to insulated boxcars (new series 66001-66025, 67001-67010 and 69001-69004) in the late 1930s, or sold off to FGE in 1940.

For that matter, I have not come across photos the cars that were converted to insulated boxcars. I can at best guess that they got freight car red paint.

-Fritz Milhaupt
Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.

Well, thank for at least attempting an answer!



Zero photos => not bloody likely, I'd guess.

Schuyler





--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Schuyler.larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

Thanks, Fritz. Can you tell us how long that scheme was around in some
quantity?

Schuyler

Well, there's the problem- I have yet to see a photo of an actual PM reefer
in the more modern paint and lettering scheme from the 1930 diagram. The few
photos I've seen of PM reefers all show them in original (1924) paint, which
is the basis for my decal set.

Based on that evidence, I'd be hard-pressed to say with any certainty that
any of the cars were repainted to the more modern scheme before being
converted to insulated boxcars (new series 66001-66025, 67001-67010 and
69001-69004) in the late 1930s, or sold off to FGE in 1940.

For that matter, I have not come across photos the cars that were converted
to insulated boxcars. I can at best guess that they got freight car red
paint.

-Fritz Milhaupt
Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.