Modeling air hoses on STMFC era cars ...


Jim Betz
 

Hi,

I see a fair number of models that the guy doing it has gone
to the trouble of painting the air hoses ... but, to my way of
thinking, has gotten the colors wrong ...

The air hoses I remember seeing in the STMFC era are

A grimy black rubber hose with a rust colored fitting on the
end ... and a rust colored valve (as in both are unpainted or
what ever paint was on them is long gone. Some hoses
were that "red rubber hose" color ... but most were black.

Is this an "it depends upon which RR" thing? Or an "it
depends upon which era" thing? (I'm talking about whether
or not the fittings are painted.)

I've seen buys paint the fittings silver, red, and white fittings.
And , almost always if they use one of those colors - jet black
hoses.

I typically do mine by hitting the entire area with a grimy
black color ... and then going back and hitting the metal parts
with a "weathered rust color".
I have used almost every brand of HO scale freight car
air hoses that have ever been produced. I tend to prefer
the HiTech and then the Kadee ... but pretty much use
what ever I put my hands on first a lot of the time.
I usually glue the hoses to the underframe in such a
way that the underframe can be removed from the car
(if it is a box car or other similar model that supports
this approach). And I position them "as close to the
coupler as I can ... without interfering with the coupler
swing.

What do you do? And why, if it matters ... Jim Betz


Tim O'Connor
 

Jim

Most photos I've seen show galvanized couplers on the end of
the air hose, and many angle cocks also are galvanized color.
All the components got dirty, but not rusty. They were in use
and had to function correctly - I think rust might interfere
with that. The hose with the coupling end was removable and
easily replaced in the field -- You often see discarded hoses
lying around freight yards.

Tim O'Connor


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 1, 2013, at 11:27 AM, jimbetz <jimbetz@jimbetz.com> wrote:
Hi,

I see a fair number of models that the guy doing it has gone
to the trouble of painting the air hoses ... but, to my way of
thinking, has gotten the colors wrong
[snip]

What do you do? And why, if it matters ... Jim Betz
Jim, the staging for my operating diorama requires the use of Kadee magnetic uncoupling, so my couplers all have operating levers, and I don't model separate air hoses so as to avoid visual clutter between the cars. I let the Kadee operating levers represent air hoses and I paint them grimy flat dark gray so they look like weathered rubber. I haven't made a practice of painting the ends to represent metal couplings, as I don't want to call attention to the fact that the "air hoses" aren't connected, but if I were going to do so, I'd use a rusty metal color, as you have. As usual, YMMV.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


mrprksr <mrprksr@...>
 

Afternoon Guys....My 2 cents on Air Hoses....I worked 42 years as a Conductor
and coupled a helluva lot of air hoses.....The only time a glad hand at the end
of an air hose was a silver color was when they were brand new...after that they
collected all kinds of grime....I believe it was more grime than rust since they
were a metal casting...not necessarily rustable,,,,figure all the stuff trains
hit and run over...people...animals....garbage,,,,etc.....you get the idea of
why they are grime color......Larry Mennie




________________________________
From: jimbetz <jimbetz@jimbetz.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, June 1, 2013 2:33:26 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Modeling air hoses on STMFC era cars ...


Hi,

I see a fair number of models that the guy doing it has gone
to the trouble of painting the air hoses ... but, to my way of
thinking, has gotten the colors wrong ...

The air hoses I remember seeing in the STMFC era are

A grimy black rubber hose with a rust colored fitting on the
end ... and a rust colored valve (as in both are unpainted or
what ever paint was on them is long gone. Some hoses
were that "red rubber hose" color ... but most were black.

Is this an "it depends upon which RR" thing? Or an "it
depends upon which era" thing? (I'm talking about whether
or not the fittings are painted.)

I've seen buys paint the fittings silver, red, and white fittings.
And , almost always if they use one of those colors - jet black
hoses.

I typically do mine by hitting the entire area with a grimy
black color ... and then going back and hitting the metal parts
with a "weathered rust color".
I have used almost every brand of HO scale freight car
air hoses that have ever been produced. I tend to prefer
the HiTech and then the Kadee ... but pretty much use
what ever I put my hands on first a lot of the time.
I usually glue the hoses to the underframe in such a
way that the underframe can be removed from the car
(if it is a box car or other similar model that supports
this approach). And I position them "as close to the
coupler as I can ... without interfering with the coupler
swing.

What do you do? And why, if it matters ... Jim Betz


Charles Hladik
 

Jim,
You are quite right, the "fittings" are almost always rusty and the
hose dirty too. For my hoses I use a piece of wire from a micro-bulb. It's
flexible and sturdy.
Chuck Hladik

In a message dated 6/1/2013 2:27:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jimbetz@jimbetz.com writes:




Hi,

I see a fair number of models that the guy doing it has gone
to the trouble of painting the air hoses ... but, to my way of
thinking, has gotten the colors wrong ...

The air hoses I remember seeing in the STMFC era are

A grimy black rubber hose with a rust colored fitting on the
end ... and a rust colored valve (as in both are unpainted or
what ever paint was on them is long gone. Some hoses
were that "red rubber hose" color ... but most were black.

Is this an "it depends upon which RR" thing? Or an "it
depends upon which era" thing? (I'm talking about whether
or not the fittings are painted.)

I've seen buys paint the fittings silver, red, and white fittings.
And , almost always if they use one of those colors - jet black
hoses.

I typically do mine by hitting the entire area with a grimy
black color ... and then going back and hitting the metal parts
with a "weathered rust color".
I have used almost every brand of HO scale freight car
air hoses that have ever been produced. I tend to prefer
the HiTech and then the Kadee ... but pretty much use
what ever I put my hands on first a lot of the time.
I usually glue the hoses to the underframe in such a
way that the underframe can be removed from the car
(if it is a box car or other similar model that supports
this approach). And I position them "as close to the
coupler as I can ... without interfering with the coupler
swing.

What do you do? And why, if it matters ... Jim Betz





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Jun 1, 2013, at 11:27 AM, jimbetz <jimbetz@...> wrote:
Hi,

I see a fair number of models that the guy doing it has gone
to the trouble of painting the air hoses ... but, to my way of
thinking, has gotten the colors wrong �
[snip]

What do you do? And why, if it matters ... Jim Betz
Jim, the staging for my operating diorama requires the use of Kadee magnetic uncoupling, so my couplers all have operating levers, and I don't model separate air hoses so as to avoid visual clutter between the cars. I let the Kadee operating levers represent air hoses and I paint them grimy flat dark gray so they look like weathered rubber. I haven't made a practice of painting the ends to represent metal couplings, as I don't want to call attention to the fact that the "air hoses" aren't connected, but if I were going to do so, I'd use a rusty metal color, as you have. As usual, YMMV.

Richard Hendrickson




Here's some info on RR air brakes from NMRA:
http://www.nmra.org/member/sites/default/files/datasheets/Prototyp/D9o.PDF


Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

Friends, keep in mind at least some of the following-

1) The ubiquitous over-wide catfish-mouth HO coupler boxes that most of us have to deal with pushes the air hose location far to the side, IMHO a position relative to the coupler that can be quite unrealistic. This is ameriorated somewhat when the fishmouth is filled with an oversized melon-head coupler. The appearance is made worse when the same wide box holds a scale sized coupler- even more so if the coupler does not have a short shank.

2) Hoses are mounted on an angle so that when the cars are coupled, the air hose ends will naturally meet. This can and does interfere with the common Kadee magnetic glad hands, depending upon length of coupler shank, and just how far out and how high the hose has been mounted.

3) Air hose mountings for the cars in our era seem to be properly aligned along the transverse centerline of the coupler shank and as close to it as possible, and in many instances in this regard were physically fastened to the side of the coupler box. More ubiquitous were the cantilevered carbody mounted brackets carrying the pipe/hose junction outboard of the car end.

4) Standard air hose length changed significantly - in the early '60s as I recall- the air hoses after that date being much longer (c. 4"). This has created modeling problems. Some common detail sets still around for pre-60 cars have the long hoses (they drag between the rails and do not last long); and HiTech did not catch this fact early on, but subsequently owned-up and to their credit then produced the correct-length high quality hoses that we now have.

5) As a practical matter, on cars that we operate and use, the plastic hoses from Kadee and CalScale simply do not stand up to routine handling. For a long time, the only solution was to use the PSC brass hoses- which served quite well, and looked great (and still do). However, even they brea, or because of inherent rigidity, come loose from mounts when leveraged. In this respect, the HiTech rubber hoses have been an almost ideal solution. They look good, stand up to handling, and do not interfere with operations.

6) A long neglected air hose detail is the hose bracket or mount itself, a detail that has been neglected totally for decades except the lovely Kadee mounts common to logging cars. In response to this need several years ago, Dennis Storzek drew up and machined a beautiful HO scale pattern for a common steam era air hose mount, and Mont Switzer and I persuaded PSC to cast it in brass and put it in their catalogue. HiTech now produces a similar bracket, apparently in rubber (I have not seen nor tried them- but will soon!).

7) What do I do? My current standard on my fine cars is to install and retrofit PSC brass brackets and HiTech air hoses- an excellent combination that looks great and holds up well. I do not install air hoses on cars on which I retain the magnetic glad hands (see below). I am less likely to worry about air hoses when the other end details are also not up to standard, nor are they likely to be.

Editorial comment: Air hoses are part of an ensemble of details -coupler box, coupler shank, coupler head, etc.- such that if one detail is incorrect, poorly placed, over or undersized, no amount of effort with just one detail will make the ensemble look right. Over the years we ache, we belly ache, we criticise, we opine, we point out, and we argue about: ladder rung size, ladder rung spacing, brake wheel types and brands, hand rail brackets types and sizes, rivet sizes and counts (yes) and how many angels can stand on a rivet head; but we simply ignore, excuse, rationalize, get angry about, or gloss over any of the details below the end beams. We tolerate over-wide coupler boxes; we tolerate over long coupler shanks; we tolerate melon sized coupler heads, and we tolerate balloon-tired wheel treads. And no, installing scale couplers with long shanks, i.e. anything longer than "short", only makes things only worse: the small head accentuates the large box mouth ("a catfish tongue on the tip of which is a large pimple") by being no longer able to disguise this fact.

Magnetic glad hands as air hoses are a scale 4" thick! .

I am not above tolerating all of these things myself, and I have done so for many years; but I am through rationalizing that in this hobby prizing itself on scale prototype modeling, that it is "OK".

H-mmph.

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

Friends, keep in mind at least some of the following-

1) The ubiquitous over-wide catfish-mouth HO coupler boxes that most of us have to deal with pushes the air hose location far to the side, IMHO a position relative to the coupler that can be quite unrealistic. This is ameriorated somewhat when the fishmouth is filled with an oversized melon-head coupler. The appearance is made worse when the same wide box holds a scale sized coupler- even more so if the coupler does not have a short shank.
Hi Doc, Long time-no see.

There is a placement diagram from the 1922 CBC here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/1103907548/pic/list

The steel car dimensions did not change appreciably for the remainder of our era of interest.

Dennis


Tony Thompson
 

Denny Anspach wrote:
2) Hoses are mounted on an angle so that when the cars are coupled, the air hose ends will naturally meet. This can and does interfere with the common Kadee magnetic glad hands, depending upon length of coupler shank, and just how far out and how high the hose has been mounted.
As Sam Clarke of Kadee is wont to say, the projecting wire below the Kadee couplers is NOT an air hose and certainly not a glad hand, despite Denny apparently having convinced himself that it is. Kadee calls it a "trip pin" and always has. You may choose to think of it as "air-hose-like" or not.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Mikebrock
 

Denny Anspach writes:

"5) As a practical matter, on cars that we operate and use, the plastic hoses from Kadee and CalScale simply do not stand up to routine handling. For a long time, the only solution was to use the PSC brass hoses- which served quite well, and looked great (and still do). However, even they brea, or because of inherent rigidity, come loose from mounts when leveraged. In this respect, the HiTech rubber hoses have been an almost ideal solution. They look good, stand up to handling, and do not interfere with operations."

First, it is good to hear from Denny.

Second, while realizing that I may be causing myself to be drummed out of the RPM world, I must confess that, at times...particularly when nothing else is available...I have used tiny "rubber" wires sans the inside metal for hoses. I'm guessing that I'm using #30 <?> size. I pull the copper out and leave just enough to simulate the glad hand portruding from the end. I know... Anyhow, the wire minus its metal is quite flexible. I believe I began doing this when a broken plastic hose became part of one of my frogs and caused the wreck of ol' 99...or was it the Fast Mail? No...I kinda doubt that the Fast Mail was involved, more likely #28.

Given that I don't model a highly industrialized area [ unless you consider the cattle pen at Buford industrial ], I don't commonly view frt cars from the end so "fat" wheels are not so noticable. In keeping with that I must add that back during one of the early Prototype Rails, quite a few frt cat gurus were present at my layout after the Thursday night dinner. I gathered about 12 or so on the far side of my version of Dale Jct. I then informed them that I was going to run a frt train by them and ask two questions. After the train went by, I asked which car had the Code 88 wheels and which box car was one foot too long. No one got the Code 88 wheel question right and only Bill Schneider got the NP box car right because he produced it. So-called Code 88 wheels and Kadee #5 couplers are not nearly as noticable when viewed from the side as from the ends. Perhaps that's because the #5 is only 1" too thick.

Before I am expelled from the RPM, in my defense, I will say that I am slowly converting frt cars to Code 88 wheels and I discard those "twangies"...the Kadee pins. They go "twang" around the room when I cut them off.

Anyhow, good stuff, Denny.

Mike Brock...twang! There goes another...