Date
1 - 18 of 18
GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?
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Brad Andonian
Fellas,
I am not sure what the correct paint color is for these cars. Any advice appreciated! Brad Andonian
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Don Burn
Basically a Pullman Green color. For more information go to the Yahoo
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MilkTrains list Don Burn
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cereshill Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 6:57 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: [STMFC] GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color? Fellas, I am not sure what the correct paint color is for these cars. Any advice appreciated! Brad Andonian ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links
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Dennis Storzek
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote:
The one we have at IRM, GPEX 1021, is Pullman Green with yellow lettering. This link should take you to photos: http://www.irm.org/gallery/GPEX1021 Surprisingly, that's still the original paint. I remember the car when it arrived in 1974 or thereabouts, and the gloss was gone from the paint then. It was a rather light, yellowish version of Pullman Green. Dennis
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MDelvec952
To add to Dennis's answer, the lettering was imitation gold on the Pfaudler cars, a pretty common color for lettering in the steam era. In the 1980s I looked closely at (wiping clean) the three cars given to museums (IRM, St. Louis and Rio Vista Junction) and they are consistent in the "Dulux" gold color of the lettering.
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....Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@mchsi.com> To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 2, 2013 11:28 pm Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color? --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote: The one we have at IRM, GPEX 1021, is Pullman Green with yellow lettering. This link should take you to photos: http://www.irm.org/gallery/GPEX1021 Surprisingly, that's still the original paint. I remember the car when it arrived in 1974 or thereabouts, and the gloss was gone from the paint then. It was a rather light, yellowish version of Pullman Green. Dennis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Kenneth Montero
I noticed that one photo shows that this particular car was last leased to Fleishmann Distilleries Corporation. Were they were used for fluids other than milk? Any ideas what was shipped other than milk? It might expand the modeler's use of these cars besides movement of milk.
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Ken Montero
----- Original Message -----
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@mchsi.com> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 11:28:43 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color? --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com , "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote: The one we have at IRM, GPEX 1021, is Pullman Green with yellow lettering. This link should take you to photos: http://www.irm.org/gallery/GPEX1021 Surprisingly, that's still the original paint. I remember the car when it arrived in 1974 or thereabouts, and the gloss was gone from the paint then. It was a rather light, yellowish version of Pullman Green. Dennis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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CMWX (Chateau Martin) had several steel Pfaudler cars, albeit painted in
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their magenta paint scheme, for hauling wine. See http://coastdaylight.com/chatmart/cmwx_roster_1.html for examples. (including one by me). Use of these cars by Chateau Martin, however was after 1960. Thanks! -- Brian Ehni From: <va661midlo@comcast.net> Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, June 3, 2013 9:42 AM To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color? I noticed that one photo shows that this particular car was last leased to Fleishmann Distilleries Corporation. Were they were used for fluids other than milk? Any ideas what was shipped other than milk? It might expand the modeler's use of these cars besides movement of milk. Ken Montero
----- Original Message -----
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@mchsi.com <mailto:destorzek%40mchsi.com> > To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 11:28:43 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color? --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote: appreciated! The one we have at IRM, GPEX 1021, is Pullman Green with yellow lettering. This link should take you to photos: http://www.irm.org/gallery/GPEX1021 Surprisingly, that's still the original paint. I remember the car when it arrived in 1974 or thereabouts, and the gloss was gone from the paint then. It was a rather light, yellowish version of Pullman Green. Dennis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Ken, Fleishmann was a major player in the yeast market, ie yeast for making
bread etc. You might look up yeast and how its manufactured for more information. Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
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drgwrail
Back some years ago when Bob Mohonwski and I wrote a three part article on milk cars for RMC, I visited the Pfaudler Company in Rochester NY. Hoped to find any information of the milk tank cars.
 I was told that Pfaudler never had anything to do with the actual construction of the cars. Pfaudler just made glass lined steel tanks and partly financed the joint venture with Genral American. There was no one there who could really supply any information on the milk cars. But there was a large photograph of one of the cars lettered for a brewery to carry beer. Unfortuantely I can't recall the brewery name.  The Chateau-Martin were former milk cars that were acquired by the company to carry wine.  Far as I know Pfaudler is still in the business of making glass lined steel tanks.  Chuck Yungkurth Boulder CO ________________________________ From: "va661midlo@comcast.net" <va661midlo@comcast.net> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?  I noticed that one photo shows that this particular car was last leased to Fleishmann Distilleries Corporation. Were they were used for fluids other than milk? Any ideas what was shipped other than milk? It might expand the modeler's use of these cars besides movement of milk. Ken Montero ----- Original Message ----- From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@mchsi.com> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 11:28:43 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color? --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com , "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote: The one we have at IRM, GPEX 1021, is Pullman Green with yellow lettering. This link should take you to photos: http://www.irm.org/gallery/GPEX1021 Surprisingly, that's still the original paint. I remember the car when it arrived in 1974 or thereabouts, and the gloss was gone from the paint then. It was a rather light, yellowish version of Pullman Green. Dennis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Kenneth Montero
Doug,
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Thank you. Ken Montero
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Harding" <doug.harding@iowacentralrr.org> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 11:26:45 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color? Ken, Fleishmann was a major player in the yeast market, ie yeast for making bread etc. You might look up yeast and how its manufactured for more information. Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
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Dennis Storzek
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, va661midlo@... wrote:
It would appear that as rail shipments of milk were winding down during the sixties, the cars were leased for transporting other edible substances. I THINK the IRM data plaque is incorrect about the tanks being stainless; that much may be true, but I was under the impression they were glass lined, the glass being fused to the substrate much like porcelain. I recall when the car came to IRM, the General American Pfaudler Corporation up near the roof was painted out with patches of Pullman green of a slightly bluer shade. I don't know the reason for this, and I see from the photos it has either been removed or weathered off; only a few small patches are visible. Dennis
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Tony Thompson
Dennis Storzek wrote:
I THINK the IRM data plaque is incorrect about the tanks being stainless; that much may be true, but I was under the impression they were glass lined, the glass being fused to the substrate much like porcelain.What are called "glass-lined" steel articles do indeed have a porcelain surface, which is strongly bonded to the steel. It would make no sense for the steel tank itself to be stainless, as the porcelain is the entire interior, although external piping probably IS stainless. The likely material for the tanks is in fact mild steel. The porcelain enamel lining is predominantly a glassy material, thus the shorthand "glass-lined." Bathtubs and sinks can be made with the same process. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Don <riverman_vt@...>
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote:
Hello Bob, I have an "official" paint and lettering diagram for these cars supplied to me directly from General American. The body color calls for strictly Pullman Green with Dulux Gold lettering, the latter being a deep yellow color rather than a bright yellow. The diagram is very specific as to the sizes of the various lettering as well. New England Rail Service offers lettering for these cars that is based upon the Gen. Amer. drawings. There were two sets, one for New England & Northeast based lessees and another for Mid-West based lessees but the New England set is out of stock at this time. Walthers carries them or they can be ordered direct at newenglandrail.net. Each set will letter five or six such cars. Additionally, there are two milk car groups on Yahoo. The one not mentnioned is NAMTA, the North American Milk Car Association. Cordially, Don Valentine
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mrprksr <mrprksr@...>
Orange Juice was shipped in Pfaudler cars...there is a Picture of EverSweet car
GPEX 977 in Model Railroading...1986...Sep/Oct...page25.....also several other cars.....Larry Mennie ________________________________ From: Charles R Yungkurth <drgwrail@yahoo.com> To: "STMFC@yahoogroups.com" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, June 3, 2013 11:52:16 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color? Back some years ago when Bob Mohonwski and I wrote a three part article on milk cars for RMC, I visited the Pfaudler Company in Rochester NY. Hoped to find any information of the milk tank cars. I was told that Pfaudler never had anything to do with the actual construction of the cars. Pfaudler just made glass lined steel tanks and partly financed the joint venture with Genral American. There was no one there who could really supply any information on the milk cars. But there was a large photograph of one of the cars lettered for a brewery to carry beer. Unfortuantely I can't recall the brewery name. The Chateau-Martin were former milk cars that were acquired by the company to carry wine. Far as I know Pfaudler is still in the business of making glass lined steel tanks. Chuck Yungkurth Boulder CO ________________________________ From: "va661midlo@comcast.net" <va661midlo@comcast.net> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color? I noticed that one photo shows that this particular car was last leased to Fleishmann Distilleries Corporation. Were they were used for fluids other than milk? Any ideas what was shipped other than milk? It might expand the modeler's use of these cars besides movement of milk. Ken Montero ----- Original Message ----- From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@mchsi.com> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 11:28:43 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color? --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com , "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote: The one we have at IRM, GPEX 1021, is Pullman Green with yellow lettering. This link should take you to photos: http://www.irm.org/gallery/GPEX1021 Surprisingly, that's still the original paint. I remember the car when it arrived in 1974 or thereabouts, and the gloss was gone from the paint then. It was a rather light, yellowish version of Pullman Green. Dennis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Paul De Luca
Ken,
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How about 140-proof bourbon shipments? And later vinegar shipments? Here's the link to the August 2002 Danbury RR Museum newsletter article by Steve Gould who worked for Standard Brands: http://www.danbury.org/DRM/Newsletter/depart0802.pdf Here's the text starting on page 6: Fleischmann Distilling Corporation was part of Standard Brands and had an interesting array of cars for its use. There were 30,000 gallon leased tank cars for handling 190 proof grain neutral spirits produced by Clinton Corn Processing and shipped to the distilling plants in Peekskill, NY and later Dayton, NJ. There was also a fleet of stainless steel former milk tank cars built by General American Pflaudler Corporation. These cars had two tanks enclosed by a shell so they looked like a boxcar. They were used for 140-proof bourbon shipments from Owensboro, KY to the Fleischmann plants. When the Federal DOT ruled alcoholic beverages as a hazardous commodity due to flammability, these cars had to be replaced because the tanks were not exposed. Since they were stainless steel, we transferred them to vinegar usage. In any event, three new 25,000 gallon, three compartment, stainless steel cars were built by ACF Industries in West Milton, PA to replace them. Paul De Luca
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, va661midlo@... wrote:
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Thanks for sharing Paul,
Fenton Wells On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Paul De Luca <nycrrhudsondiv@msn.com> wrote: ** -- Fenton Wells 5 Newberry Lane Pinehurst NC 28374 910-420-1144 srrfan1401@gmail.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Kenneth Montero
Paul,
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Thank you very much for this information. The entire article was quite informative. Is there any way to find out when Standard Brands started using the General America Pflauder tank cars since Standard Brands as a separate corporation no longer exists? Would a pre-1960 ORER provide any assistance? Having a whiskey car to supplement the beer cars would be quite a nice touch. Ken Montero
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul De Luca" <nycrrhudsondiv@msn.com> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2013 8:35:37 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color? Ken, How about 140-proof bourbon shipments? And later vinegar shipments? Here's the link to the August 2002 Danbury RR Museum newsletter article by Steve Gould who worked for Standard Brands: http://www.danbury.org/DRM/Newsletter/depart0802.pdf Here's the text starting on page 6: Fleischmann Distilling Corporation was part of Standard Brands and had an interesting array of cars for its use. There were 30,000 gallon leased tank cars for handling 190 proof grain neutral spirits produced by Clinton Corn Processing and shipped to the distilling plants in Peekskill, NY and later Dayton, NJ. There was also a fleet of stainless steel former milk tank cars built by General American Pflaudler Corporation. These cars had two tanks enclosed by a shell so they looked like a boxcar. They were used for 140-proof bourbon shipments from Owensboro, KY to the Fleischmann plants. When the Federal DOT ruled alcoholic beverages as a hazardous commodity due to flammability, these cars had to be replaced because the tanks were not exposed. Since they were stainless steel, we transferred them to vinegar usage. In any event, three new 25,000 gallon, three compartment, stainless steel cars were built by ACF Industries in West Milton, PA to replace them. Paul De Luca --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com , va661midlo@... wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Paul De Luca
Ken,
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I've been unable to determine exactly when the car was leased to Fleischmans, who owned the bourbon plant from the 1940's to the 1970's. My Liljestrand milk book shows that 1021 was leased to Bowman (Dairy?), and I've not been able to determine the dates when the car was leased to Fleischmans. Someone with a better knowledge of milk train operations around Chicago may be able to tell us when Bowmain Dairy ceased shipping milk by rail. I could not locate anything in the ORER's that I have from 1951 and 1955. Paul De Luca
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, va661midlo@... wrote:
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Kenneth Montero
Paul,
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Thank you for trying. From your lead about Bowman Dairy, here is what I found: 1. Bowman Dairy started winding down in 1959, and was acquired by Dean Foods in 1966. http://chsmedia.org/media/fa/fa/1986/49.htm http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/2575.html Nothing in the first link (archives) readily appears to be information about milk tank cars. 2. I did find a Rail Model Journal article that showed pictures of these cars in service to Bowman Dairy (see bottom of page 18): http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/76/5453/august-2005-page-11 They were numbered GPEX 1007 to 1033. 3. I need to pursue the sources listed on page 12 of the article. Ken Montero
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul De Luca" <nycrrhudsondiv@msn.com> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2013 10:15:01 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color? Ken, I've been unable to determine exactly when the car was leased to Fleischmans, who owned the bourbon plant from the 1940's to the 1970's. My Liljestrand milk book shows that 1021 was leased to Bowman (Dairy?), and I've not been able to determine the dates when the car was leased to Fleischmans. Someone with a better knowledge of milk train operations around Chicago may be able to tell us when Bowmain Dairy ceased shipping milk by rail. I could not locate anything in the ORER's that I have from 1951 and 1955. Paul De Luca --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com , va661midlo@... wrote:
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