Evidence for loading SFRD reefers on the SP


Ken Roth
 

I was reading Tony Thompson's latest blog on PFE Ice Reefers and upgrading old CB&T SFRD reefers. In the article on SFRD reefers, Tony mentions that SRFD reefers were not loaded on SP, and vice-versa PFE cars on the Santa Fe. I would like to offer some evidence of loading SFRD reefers with pears in Southern Oregon in 1949 and 1950. I have a copy of a conductor's log containing a westbound (towards Calif) train out of Ashland in 1949 in which two SFRD reefers (#7319 and #36104 bound for Chicago) appear, with the cargo listed as "pears". These most likely were loaded in Medford. By the way, another eastbound train of empties headed for Ashland from California lists four empty ART reefers destined for Ashland, again likely to be loaded with pears from the Medford area. Apparently during pear season, the SP would load any reefers they could get their hands on. For my Siskiyou line pike, this justifies a wonderful mix of PFE, ART, and SFRD equipment.

Ken Roth


Tony Thompson
 

Ken Roth wrote:
I was reading Tony Thompson's latest blog on PFE Ice Reefers and upgrading old CB&T SFRD reefers. In the article on SFRD reefers, Tony mentions that SRFD reefers were not loaded on SP, and vice-versa PFE cars on the Santa Fe. I would like to offer some evidence of loading SFRD reefers with pears in Southern Oregon in 1949 and 1950 . . . For my Siskiyou line pike, this justifies a wonderful mix of PFE, ART, and SFRD equipment.
That it happened occasionally does not, in my view, "justify" loading SFRD cars more than quite rarely. Conductor book data I have seen COULD justify some FGE cars being loaded, even a few NP cars, more than SFRD. Sorry, but in my opinion, you shouldn't load more than one SFRD car in a hundred, if that. I mean, of course, if you are trying to be realistic. If not, then you can do what you like.
Tony Thompson


Ken Roth
 

Perhaps "wonderful mix" was a bad choice of words, implying that I am not trying for realistic proportions of cars. For the record, I own exactly two SFRD reefers against many PFE's representative of the PFE classes appearing in my logs, as well as two ART reefers. I have no plans for more SFRD's.

Ken Roth

--- In STMFC@..., tony <tony@...> wrote:

Ken Roth wrote:
I was reading Tony Thompson's latest blog on PFE Ice Reefers and upgrading old CB&T SFRD reefers. In the article on SFRD reefers, Tony mentions that SRFD reefers were not loaded on SP, and vice-versa PFE cars on the Santa Fe. I would like to offer some evidence of loading SFRD reefers with pears in Southern Oregon in 1949 and 1950 . . . For my Siskiyou line pike, this justifies a wonderful mix of PFE, ART, and SFRD equipment.
That it happened occasionally does not, in my view, "justify" loading SFRD cars more than quite rarely. Conductor book data I have seen COULD justify some FGE cars being loaded, even a few NP cars, more than SFRD. Sorry, but in my opinion, you shouldn't load more than one SFRD car in a hundred, if that. I mean, of course, if you are trying to be realistic. If not, then you can do what you like.
Tony Thompson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tony Thompson
 

Ken Roth wrote:
Perhaps "wonderful mix" was a bad choice of words, implying that I am not trying for realistic proportions of cars. For the record, I own exactly two SFRD reefers against many PFE's representative of the PFE classes appearing in my logs, as well as two ART reefers. I have no plans for more SFRD's.



er
I see what you mean. But for data, you can read my 2011 blog post, link below. Out of 1102 reefers in SP conductor books I analyzed, there were exactly 2 SFRD cars, far less than FGE or MDT, to name two; and less than 0.1 percent. Your call how to run your fleet.

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2011/02/modeling-freight-traffic-coast-line.html

Tony Thompson


Tim O'Connor
 

If you model a produce loading area in California, it's unlikely you'd
see SFRD reefers being loaded on the SP (and vice-versa). But if you model
a destination urban area, SFRD loads were certainly terminated on the SP.
I've seen photos of SFRD reefers spotted along the SP from the PNW to Texas.
But numerically we're talking about very small percentages.

Tim O'Connor

I was reading Tony Thompson's latest blog on PFE Ice Reefers and upgrading old CB&T SFRD reefers. In the article on SFRD reefers, Tony mentions that SRFD reefers were not loaded on SP, and vice-versa PFE cars on the Santa Fe. I would like to offer some evidence of loading SFRD reefers with pears in Southern Oregon in 1949 and 1950. I have a copy of a conductor's log containing a westbound (towards Calif) train out of Ashland in 1949 in which two SFRD reefers (#7319 and #36104 bound for Chicago) appear, with the cargo listed as "pears". These most likely were loaded in Medford. By the way, another eastbound train of empties headed for Ashland from California lists four empty ART reefers destined for Ashland, again likely to be loaded with pears from the Medford area. Apparently during pear season, the SP would load any reefers they could get their hands on. For my Siskiyou line pike, this justifies a wonderful mix of PFE, ART, and SFRD equipment.

Ken Roth


Bob Chaparro <thecitrusbelt@...>
 

What Tony said is essentially correct. What you have are exceptions. I've researched this issue for nearly ten years and, with the exception of the early years of World War II through about 1947, PFE ice bunker reefers in the west were loaded on SP, UP and WP lines almost without exception and SFRD ice bunker reefers in the west were loaded on the Santa Fe.

Yes, I've found exceptions but that is what they were…exceptions. And these usually were associated with car shortages due to seasonal demands. And since that is the situation on your railroad, enjoy the mix of cars.

Bob Chaparro
Moderator
Citrus Industry Modeling Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/citrusmodeling/

--- In STMFC@..., "krowth3249" <kenwroth@...> wrote:

I was reading Tony Thompson's latest blog on PFE Ice Reefers and upgrading old CB&T SFRD reefers. In the article on SFRD reefers, Tony mentions that SRFD reefers were not loaded on SP, and vice-versa PFE cars on the Santa Fe. I would like to offer some evidence of loading SFRD reefers with pears in Southern Oregon in 1949 and 1950. I have a copy of a conductor's log containing a westbound (towards Calif) train out of Ashland in 1949 in which two SFRD reefers (#7319 and #36104 bound for Chicago) appear, with the cargo listed as "pears". These most likely were loaded in Medford. By the way, another eastbound train of empties headed for Ashland from California lists four empty ART reefers destined for Ashland, again likely to be loaded with pears from the Medford area. Apparently during pear season, the SP would load any reefers they could get their hands on. For my Siskiyou line pike, this justifies a wonderful mix of PFE, ART, and SFRD equipment.

Ken Roth


Steve SANDIFER
 

I understand this situation in the west for full reefer trains headed east. However, by the time those cars got a place like Kansas City, and they got into manifest freights, what would you expect? Let's say 1952, a freight train with a few reefers on the head end. Would you expect to see only "home road" reefers, or could you see a mix going to various produce distributors?

______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Chaparro
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 8:36 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Evidence for loading SFRD reefers on the SP



What Tony said is essentially correct. What you have are exceptions. I've researched this issue for nearly ten years and, with the exception of the early years of World War II through about 1947, PFE ice bunker reefers in the west were loaded on SP, UP and WP lines almost without exception and SFRD ice bunker reefers in the west were loaded on the Santa Fe.

Yes, I've found exceptions but that is what they were.exceptions. And these usually were associated with car shortages due to seasonal demands. And since that is the situation on your railroad, enjoy the mix of cars.

Bob Chaparro
Moderator
Citrus Industry Modeling Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/citrusmodeling/

--- In STMFC@..., "krowth3249" <kenwroth@...> wrote:
>
> I was reading Tony Thompson's latest blog on PFE Ice Reefers and upgrading old CB&T SFRD reefers. In the article on SFRD reefers, Tony mentions that SRFD reefers were not loaded on SP, and vice-versa PFE cars on the Santa Fe. I would like to offer some evidence of loading SFRD reefers with pears in Southern Oregon in 1949 and 1950. I have a copy of a conductor's log containing a westbound (towards Calif) train out of Ashland in 1949 in which two SFRD reefers (#7319 and #36104 bound for Chicago) appear, with the cargo listed as "pears". These most likely were loaded in Medford. By the way, another eastbound train of empties headed for Ashland from California lists four empty ART reefers destined for Ashland, again likely to be loaded with pears from the Medford area. Apparently during pear season, the SP would load any reefers they could get their hands on. For my Siskiyou line pike, this justifies a wonderful mix of PFE, ART, and SFRD equipment.
>
> Ken Roth
>


Tony Thompson
 

Steve Sandifer wrote:
I understand this situation in the west for full reefer trains headed east. However, by the time those cars got a place like Kansas City, and they got into manifest freights, what would you expect? Let's say 1952, a freight train with a few reefers on the head end. Would you expect to see only "home road" reefers, or could you see a mix going to various produce distributors?
Steve, for obvious reasons, the produce cars scattered outward from their origins, and streams of them joined and mixed with other streams. As you went farther and farther east, reefers were more and more mixed, and single-origin cuts got smaller and smaller. And of course manifest freights would have much more presence of reefers than drag freights, for loads, and often the reverse for empties -- except in harvest season.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
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