Most needed car?


Mikebrock
 

Armand Premo says:

"My concern, for what it is worth, is that the most needed/wanted car possible.I suppose we all have our druthers.Isn't it about time to start another discussion about what is needed."

Why do we need another poll? Everyone knows the most needed car is the UP HK-50-4 [ although either the HK-50-3 or HK-50-5 would suffice ] and the UP 4209 class 12500 gal tank car. <G>

Mike Brock


Douglas Harding
 

What is a UP HK-50-4? And until now, I was not aware I needed one.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Mikebrock
 

Doug Harding writes:

"What is a UP HK-50-4?"

Well, of course, a UP HK-50-4 [ as well as the similar HK-50-3 and HK-50-5 ] were ballast hoppers. The HK-50-5 might actually be a better choice because it was originally built as a composite car with wood siding which was changed to steel in '51. The car is perhaps more interesting because it has outside bracing. The HK-50-3 and HK-50-4 had straight "slab-like" sides which only a UP nu...uh...modeler would probably appreciate.

"And until now, I was not aware I needed one."

Well, I just naturally assumed that most RRs [ well...maybe not those in New England...wherever that is...] would have bought large amounts of ballast from Buford [ on Sherman Hill ]...or even from Bruceford...that is, if the Fast Mail ever got out of the way. Anyhow, long strings of ballast cars could generally be seen moving across Big Wyoming. What more could you want?

Lessee, Doug. Don't you model the M&StL? You might want to consider the tank car.

Mike Brock

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Douglas Harding
 

Mike you have shown the true beauty of this list, Education. Now I know what a UP HK-50-4 is, a ballast hoppers. Thank You. And based upon the information you shared, I can now make an intelligent decision. I don’t need any HK-50-4 ballast hoppers.

 

Yes I model the M&StL. But the M&StL did not use ballast. It used cinders, limestone in heavy traffic areas. Cinders came from their own steam engines, no need to purchased, and was hauled in former wood gons converted to cinder cars. Limestone came from the various sand and gravel pits found along the M&StL lines. Most of this was shipped in the 50 steel side-dump gons built for the Iowa Central in 1908, or the fleet of 250 USRA drop bottom gons purchased in 1920, or the fleet of 125 ex CNW USRA gons acquired in 1942 or the 250 steel drop bottom gons purchased new in 1947. As the USRA drop bottom gon is available from InterMountain, who did their first run in M&StL paint and which I purchased at the time, my potential need for ballast cars is covered. Which is a good thing, because I don’t recall ever seeing anything moving whenever I have visited Bruceford.

 

And yes the tank car is needed on the M&StL. A lot of petroleum products moved up the line from Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas to the farmers of Iowa and Minnesota. Tank cars are needed, even a 6000 gal 3 dome version. I am regretting not purchasing an undec the other day at the Naperville meet, as I saw the Black Cat decals laying on the table next to the Tangent display. But the Tangent rep assured me that the future may well produce a car appropriately lettered for my 1949 world, and I am patient. I can wait.

 

Now as to cars we do need, lets see meat reefers are coming (they are coming? right Bill?) and there are many stockcars out there. What else is there?

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Benjamin Hom
 

Doug Harding wrote:
"What else is there?"
 
Signature cars for major roads that have not been sufficiently explored or analyzed, and the biggest elephant in the room is the New York Central.  What modelers think is covered and what we really need as steam era freight car modelers are two different things, and we really don't know what we don't know, even with the efforts of Jeff English in the late 1990s.
 
For example, the recent release of the Broadway Limited 8 ft 7 in IH USRA-design steel boxcar would lead you to believe that we have the most common boxcar covered.  However, the NYCS raised the IH of these cars during the production run, building large numbers of 9 ft 3 in and 10 ft IH cars.
 
Another example: what is the most common NYCS hopper car?  The USRA/USRA-design twin?  Bob Karig's early common standard?  Oddball IL offset twins?  It sure as heck isn't the AAR offset twin, which was a rare care on the NYCS - only 1000 cars!
 
How many?  Nobody really knows because nobody cares enough to go through the Byzantine lot system of the NYCS to really figure this out.
 
The B&O is another one - the M-53 and M-15 subclass wagontop boxcar were certainly signature cars of the railroad, but they were far outnumbered by the 1923 ARA alternate standard steel boxcars.
 
Additionally, there's another slamdunk that hasn't been done yet - the 10 ft IH postwar steel boxcar.  (The Intermountain car is a prototype unique to the GN.)  You can sell NYC Pacemaker boxcars and SP Overnight boxcars until the sun turns into a red giant, and that doesn't include the other prototypes!
 
 
Ben Hom


Steve H <nwicfan@...>
 

It would be interesting to see a list of "signature" cars and find out what types have been offered and what has not been offered.
 
- Steve Hedlund, Everett WA


On Monday, October 21, 2013 1:36 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
 
Doug Harding wrote:
"What else is there?"
 
Signature cars for major roads that have not been sufficiently explored or analyzed, and the biggest elephant in the room is the New York Central.  What modelers think is covered and what we really need as steam era freight car modelers are two different things, and we really don't know what we don't know, even with the efforts of Jeff English in the late 1990s.
 
For example, the recent release of the Broadway Limited 8 ft 7 in IH USRA-design steel boxcar would lead you to believe that we have the most common boxcar covered.  However, the NYCS raised the IH of these cars during the production run, building large numbers of 9 ft 3 in and 10 ft IH cars.
 
Another example: what is the most common NYCS hopper car?  The USRA/USRA-design twin?  Bob Karig's early common standard?  Oddball IL offset twins?  It sure as heck isn't the AAR offset twin, which was a rare care on the NYCS - only 1000 cars!
 
How many?  Nobody really knows because nobody cares enough to go through the Byzantine lot system of the NYCS to really figure this out.
 
The B&O is another one - the M-53 and M-15 subclass wagontop boxcar were certainly signature cars of the railroad, but they were far outnumbered by the 1923 ARA alternate standard steel boxcars.
 
Additionally, there's another slamdunk that hasn't been done yet - the 10 ft IH postwar steel boxcar.  (The Intermountain car is a prototype unique to the GN.)  You can sell NYC Pacemaker boxcars and SP Overnight boxcars until the sun turns into a red giant, and that doesn't include the other prototypes!
 
 
Ben Hom 



Eric Hansmann
 

Back in 2012, a group of pre-Depression modelers compiled a list of freight car models for mass production consideration. 

In many cases here, 10,000-20,000 of the prototypes were produced. The in-service numbers through WWII were strong on a number of these individual freight car designs. Between 1946 and 1953, the in-service numbers rapidly dwindled as a 1953 mandatory K brake upgrade pushed railroads to scrap many older freight cars or move them to maintenance service.

 

New York Central Lines - 36-foot, double-sheathed box cars with Murphy inverted corrugated ends

New York Central Lines - 40 foot, double-sheathed, door-and-a-half automobile (XA) box cars

Pennsylvania Railroad - 40-foot GRa, fishbelly side sill, composite gondolas

New York Central Lines - 46 foot,  fishbelly side sill, composite mill gons - many rebuilt with steel replacing original wood sides

1905 common standard hoppers - several railroads rostered these in the thousands

Union Tank Lines (UTLX) X-3 tank cars - came in a few different gallon versions and an insulated version

Southern Railway -  36-foot, steel underframe, double-sheathed, truss rod, box cars

Baltimore & Ohio - M-15 class 40 foot, double-sheathed, box cars

Merchants Despatch Transit (MDT) reefers - 40 foot, double-sheathed, refrigerator cars

Harriman box cars - Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, Illinois Central - 40 foot, double-sheathed, fishbelly side sill, box cars

USRA 70-ton triple bay coal hopper - over 20,000 in service for Chesapeake & Ohio, and New York Central Lines

 

Here are some additional prototypes to consider. These were not produced in the quantity of those listed above but they are distinctive designs:

1924 ARA proposed standard XM-1 single-sheathed, Howe truss box car design - L&N, B&M, more

Seaboard Air Line B-3 or B-4 box car - similarities to the XM-1 above

Atlantic Coast Line ventilated box car (an updated version better than the old Con-Cor model)

wood vinegar tank car 


I'm looking forward to the Dominion/Fowler model from True Line Trains someday. I'd be even happier if a 6-foot door version was produced to cover several US roads.


I model 1926, YMMV.


Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX




---In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

Doug Harding wrote:
"What else is there?"
 
Signature cars for major roads that have not been sufficiently explored or analyzed, and the biggest elephant in the room is the New York Central.  What modelers think is covered and what we really need as steam era freight car modelers are two different things, and we really don't know what we don't know, even with the efforts of Jeff English in the late 1990s.
 
For example, the recent release of the Broadway Limited 8 ft 7 in IH USRA-design steel boxcar would lead you to believe that we have the most common boxcar covered.  However, the NYCS raised the IH of these cars during the production run, building large numbers of 9 ft 3 in and 10 ft IH cars.
 
Another example: what is the most common NYCS hopper car?  The USRA/USRA-design twin?  Bob Karig's early common standard?  Oddball IL offset twins?  It sure as heck isn't the AAR offset twin, which was a rare care on the NYCS - only 1000 cars!
 
How many?  Nobody really knows because nobody cares enough to go through the Byzantine lot system of the NYCS to really figure this out.
 
The B&O is another one - the M-53 and M-15 subclass wagontop boxcar were certainly signature cars of the railroad, but they were far outnumbered by the 1923 ARA alternate standard steel boxcars.
 
Additionally, there's another slamdunk that hasn't been done yet - the 10 ft IH postwar steel boxcar.  (The Intermountain car is a prototype unique to the GN.)  You can sell NYC Pacemaker boxcars and SP Overnight boxcars until the sun turns into a red giant, and that doesn't include the other prototypes!
 
 
Ben Hom 


Alexander Schneider Jr
 

All of those listed were important cars and commonplace in the era you model. During their long lives both mechanical and lettering standards changed, and selling a large production quantity will be possible if both "as built" and "postwar" variants are offered, as Tangent has attempted to do with their new tank cars.
 
Several of the cars you mention have been offered as resin kits, but that's a slow way to build a railroad.
 
Alex Schneider

From: "eric@..."
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: Re: [STMFC] Re: Most needed car?



Back in 2012, a group of pre-Depression modelers compiled a list of freight car models for mass production consideration. 
In many cases here, 10,000-20,000 of the prototypes were produced. The in-service numbers through WWII were strong on a number of these individual freight car designs. Between 1946 and 1953, the in-service numbers rapidly dwindled as a 1953 mandatory K brake upgrade pushed railroads to scrap many older freight cars or move them to maintenance service.
 
New York Central Lines - 36-foot, double-sheathed box cars with Murphy inverted corrugated ends
New York Central Lines - 40 foot, double-sheathed, door-and-a-half automobile (XA) box cars
Pennsylvania Railroad - 40-foot GRa, fishbelly side sill, composite gondolas
New York Central Lines - 46 foot,  fishbelly side sill, composite mill gons - many rebuilt with steel replacing original wood sides
1905 common standard hoppers - several railroads rostered these in the thousands
Union Tank Lines (UTLX) X-3 tank cars - came in a few different gallon versions and an insulated version
Southern Railway -  36-foot, steel underframe, double-sheathed, truss rod, box cars
Baltimore & Ohio - M-15 class 40 foot, double-sheathed, box cars
Merchants Despatch Transit (MDT) reefers - 40 foot, double-sheathed, refrigerator cars
Harriman box cars - Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, Illinois Central - 40 foot, double-sheathed, fishbelly side sill, box cars
USRA 70-ton triple bay coal hopper - over 20,000 in service for Chesapeake & Ohio, and New York Central Lines
 
Here are some additional prototypes to consider. These were not produced in the quantity of those listed above but they are distinctive designs:
1924 ARA proposed standard XM-1 single-sheathed, Howe truss box car design - L&N, B&M, more
Seaboard Air Line B-3 or B-4 box car - similarities to the XM-1 above
Atlantic Coast Line ventilated box car (an updated version better than the old Con-Cor model)
wood vinegar tank car 

I'm looking forward to the Dominion/Fowler model from True Line Trains someday. I'd be even happier if a 6-foot door version was produced to cover several US roads.

I model 1926, YMMV.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX



---In STMFC@..., wrote:

Doug Harding wrote:
"What else is there?"
 
Signature cars for major roads that have not been sufficiently explored or analyzed, and the biggest elephant in the room is the New York Central.  What modelers think is covered and what we really need as steam era freight car modelers are two different things, and we really don't know what we don't know, even with the efforts of Jeff English in the late 1990s.
 
For example, the recent release of the Broadway Limited 8 ft 7 in IH USRA-design steel boxcar would lead you to believe that we have the most common boxcar covered.  However, the NYCS raised the IH of these cars during the production run, building large numbers of 9 ft 3 in and 10 ft IH cars.
 
Another example: what is the most common NYCS hopper car?  The USRA/USRA-design twin?  Bob Karig's early common standard?  Oddball IL offset twins?  It sure as heck isn't the AAR offset twin, which was a rare care on the NYCS - only 1000 cars!
 
How many?  Nobody really knows because nobody cares enough to go through the Byzantine lot system of the NYCS to really figure this out.
 
The B&O is another one - the M-53 and M-15 subclass wagontop boxcar were certainly signature cars of the railroad, but they were far outnumbered by the 1923 ARA alternate standard steel boxcars.
 
Additionally, there's another slamdunk that hasn't been done yet - the 10 ft IH postwar steel boxcar.  (The Intermountain car is a prototype unique to the GN.)  You can sell NYC Pacemaker boxcars and SP Overnight boxcars until the sun turns into a red giant, and that doesn't include the other prototypes!
 
 
Ben Hom 





dahminator68
 

Hi Eric:  Nice list but I wondered if you are listing these cars because they need to be modeled or just as an example of cars that had large quantities built by Railroads?
 
Andrew Dahm

From: "eric@..."
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 3:59 PM
Subject: RE: Re: [STMFC] Re: Most needed car?

 
Back in 2012, a group of pre-Depression modelers compiled a list of freight car models for mass production consideration. 
In many cases here, 10,000-20,000 of the prototypes were produced. The in-service numbers through WWII were strong on a number of these individual freight car designs. Between 1946 and 1953, the in-service numbers rapidly dwindled as a 1953 mandatory K brake upgrade pushed railroads to scrap many older freight cars or move them to maintenance service.
 
New York Central Lines - 36-foot, double-sheathed box cars with Murphy inverted corrugated ends
New York Central Lines - 40 foot, double-sheathed, door-and-a-half automobile (XA) box cars
Pennsylvania Railroad - 40-foot GRa, fishbelly side sill, composite gondolas
New York Central Lines - 46 foot,  fishbelly side sill, composite mill gons - many rebuilt with steel replacing original wood sides
1905 common standard hoppers - several railroads rostered these in the thousands
Union Tank Lines (UTLX) X-3 tank cars - came in a few different gallon versions and an insulated version
Southern Railway -  36-foot, steel underframe, double-sheathed, truss rod, box cars
Baltimore & Ohio - M-15 class 40 foot, double-sheathed, box cars
Merchants Despatch Transit (MDT) reefers - 40 foot, double-sheathed, refrigerator cars
Harriman box cars - Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, Illinois Central - 40 foot, double-sheathed, fishbelly side sill, box cars
USRA 70-ton triple bay coal hopper - over 20,000 in service for Chesapeake & Ohio, and New York Central Lines
 
Here are some additional prototypes to consider. These were not produced in the quantity of those listed above but they are distinctive designs:
1924 ARA proposed standard XM-1 single-sheathed, Howe truss box car design - L&N, B&M, more
Seaboard Air Line B-3 or B-4 box car - similarities to the XM-1 above
Atlantic Coast Line ventilated box car (an updated version better than the old Con-Cor model)
wood vinegar tank car 

I'm looking forward to the Dominion/Fowler model from True Line Trains someday. I'd be even happier if a 6-foot door version was produced to cover several US roads.

I model 1926, YMMV.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX



---In STMFC@..., wrote:

Doug Harding wrote:
"What else is there?"
 
Signature cars for major roads that have not been sufficiently explored or analyzed, and the biggest elephant in the room is the New York Central.  What modelers think is covered and what we really need as steam era freight car modelers are two different things, and we really don't know what we don't know, even with the efforts of Jeff English in the late 1990s.
 
For example, the recent release of the Broadway Limited 8 ft 7 in IH USRA-design steel boxcar would lead you to believe that we have the most common boxcar covered.  However, the NYCS raised the IH of these cars during the production run, building large numbers of 9 ft 3 in and 10 ft IH cars.
 
Another example: what is the most common NYCS hopper car?  The USRA/USRA-design twin?  Bob Karig's early common standard?  Oddball IL offset twins?  It sure as heck isn't the AAR offset twin, which was a rare care on the NYCS - only 1000 cars!
 
How many?  Nobody really knows because nobody cares enough to go through the Byzantine lot system of the NYCS to really figure this out.
 
The B&O is another one - the M-53 and M-15 subclass wagontop boxcar were certainly signature cars of the railroad, but they were far outnumbered by the 1923 ARA alternate standard steel boxcars.
 
Additionally, there's another slamdunk that hasn't been done yet - the 10 ft IH postwar steel boxcar.  (The Intermountain car is a prototype unique to the GN.)  You can sell NYC Pacemaker boxcars and SP Overnight boxcars until the sun turns into a red giant, and that doesn't include the other prototypes!
 
 
Ben Hom 



Douglas Harding
 

Steve a good start would be the series of 46 articles that Ted Cullotta published in Railroad Model Craftsman, titled “Essential Freight Cars” http://steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/research/EssentialFreightCars.html

While many of the models are resin, this list certainly provides a list of important models that have already been offered in HO.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


midrly
 

Indeed, Douglas. Ted Culotta's Essential Freight Car #8 is a CN' 40' steel-frame boxcar. Numbered CN 503500-513499, these ten thousand 1929-1931-built cars were seen all over North American rails.  


http://www.cnrphotos.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=16802


Accurail makes a very nice shake-the-box model that can be detailed up for slightly different predecessor CN 500500-503499, of which CN had 3,000.  But only resin kits are available for the CN 503500- series.


Though I must admit that I will buy some UTLX X-3's when they come out...


Steve Lucas.   



---In stmfc@..., <doug.harding@...> wrote:

Steve a good start would be the series of 46 articles that Ted Cullotta published in Railroad Model Craftsman, titled “Essential Freight Cars” http://steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/research/EssentialFreightCars.html

While many of the models are resin, this list certainly provides a list of important models that have already been offered in HO.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Tim O'Connor
 

Ben Hom wrote

> Additionally, there's another slamdunk that hasn't been done yet - the 10 ft IH postwar steel boxcar.
> (The Intermountain car is a prototype unique to the GN.)

Ben, not quite -- The Intermountain 12 panel, 10'0" IH postwar box car body is good
for SP classes B-50-25 and B-50-26 -- A total of 5,600 cars built 1946-1948. Of course
appropriate doors, ends and roofs have to be acquired and applied to make each accurate.
I have a small box of the bodies and other parts I bought directly from IRC (with doors
from Dan Hall) to model these cars...

Tim O'Connor


Benjamin Hom
 

I wrote
"(The Intermountain car is a prototype unique to the GN.)"

Tim O'Connor replied:
"Ben, not quite -- The Intermountain 12 panel, 10'0" IH postwar box car body is good
for SP classes B-50-25 and B-50-26 -- A total of 5,600 cars built 1946-1948. Of course
appropriate doors, ends and roofs have to be acquired and applied to make each accurate.
I have a small box of the bodies and other parts I bought directly from IRC (with doors
from Dan Hall) to model these cars..."


Doors, end, and roof replacement does not make a match.  It's an excellent starting point for your SP classes, but certainly not good out of the box.
 
 
Ben Hom


Steve H <nwicfan@...>
 

I remember seeing a bunch of those articles and they are great if you model the 40s and 50s. But as you know, there are many, many so-called "Signature" cars that have not been introduced in any format especially the pre-depression era cars.
 
- Steve Hedlund


On Monday, October 21, 2013 7:23 PM, "lucas@..." wrote:
 
Indeed, Douglas. Ted Culotta's Essential Freight Car #8 is a CN' 40' steel-frame boxcar. Numbered CN 503500-513499, these ten thousand 1929-1931-built cars were seen all over North American rails.  


Accurail makes a very nice shake-the-box model that can be detailed up for slightly different predecessor CN 500500-503499, of which CN had 3,000.  But only resin kits are available for the CN 503500- series.

Though I must admit that I will buy some UTLX X-3's when they come out...

Steve Lucas.   


---In stmfc@..., wrote:

Steve a good start would be the series of 46 articles that Ted Cullotta published in Railroad Model Craftsman, titled “Essential Freight Cars” http://steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/research/EssentialFreightCars.html
While many of the models are resin, this list certainly provides a list of important models that have already been offered in HO.
 
Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org
 



Tim O'Connor
 

Ben, the car is incorrect for ALL of the GN and SP&S cars as well,
because it comes with the wrong door. You do not need to REPLACE the
parts to model SP -- you simply have to order the correct ends and
roof (made by Intermountain) and the correct door (made by Dan Hall).
The same comment applies to the GN and SP&S cars.

Tim O'Connor

Doors, end, and roof replacement does not make a match. It's an excellent starting point for your SP classes, but certainly not good out of the box.

Ben Hom


Jeff Coleman
 

Seems there is quite a few cars in the list of "most needed" and for the past 20 yrs or so I always thought it was the N&W HU/HUa 70T hopper


Jeff Coleman



---In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

It would be interesting to see a list of "signature" cars and find out what types have been offered and what has not been offered.
 
- Steve Hedlund, Everett WA


On Monday, October 21, 2013 1:36 PM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
 
Doug Harding wrote:
"What else is there?"
 
Signature cars for major roads that have not been sufficiently explored or analyzed, and the biggest elephant in the room is the New York Central.  What modelers think is covered and what we really need as steam era freight car modelers are two different things, and we really don't know what we don't know, even with the efforts of Jeff English in the late 1990s.
 
For example, the recent release of the Broadway Limited 8 ft 7 in IH USRA-design steel boxcar would lead you to believe that we have the most common boxcar covered.  However, the NYCS raised the IH of these cars during the production run, building large numbers of 9 ft 3 in and 10 ft IH cars.
 
Another example: what is the most common NYCS hopper car?  The USRA/USRA-design twin?  Bob Karig's early common standard?  Oddball IL offset twins?  It sure as heck isn't the AAR offset twin, which was a rare care on the NYCS - only 1000 cars!
 
How many?  Nobody really knows because nobody cares enough to go through the Byzantine lot system of the NYCS to really figure this out.
 
The B&O is another one - the M-53 and M-15 subclass wagontop boxcar were certainly signature cars of the railroad, but they were far outnumbered by the 1923 ARA alternate standard steel boxcars.
 
Additionally, there's another slamdunk that hasn't been done yet - the 10 ft IH postwar steel boxcar.  (The Intermountain car is a prototype unique to the GN.)  You can sell NYC Pacemaker boxcars and SP Overnight boxcars until the sun turns into a red giant, and that doesn't include the other prototypes!
 
 
Ben Hom 



Noel Widdifield
 

Ben,

 The NYCSHS is no longer Byzantine.  We have made several changes over the last two years and I think you would find that we are now in the business of helping modelers.  Check out our website www.nycshs.og  You will find that we have published several editions of an online NYCentral Modeler magazine and have offered several new NYC models and have several more in the pipeline.

 thanks, Noel

 Noel Widdifield

NYCSHS Director




---In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

Seems there is quite a few cars in the list of "most needed" and for the past 20 yrs or so I always thought it was the N&W HU/HUa 70T hopper


Jeff Coleman



---In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

It would be interesting to see a list of "signature" cars and find out what types have been offered and what has not been offered.
 
- Steve Hedlund, Everett WA


On Monday, October 21, 2013 1:36 PM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
 
Doug Harding wrote:
"What else is there?"
 
Signature cars for major roads that have not been sufficiently explored or analyzed, and the biggest elephant in the room is the New York Central.  What modelers think is covered and what we really need as steam era freight car modelers are two different things, and we really don't know what we don't know, even with the efforts of Jeff English in the late 1990s.
 
For example, the recent release of the Broadway Limited 8 ft 7 in IH USRA-design steel boxcar would lead you to believe that we have the most common boxcar covered.  However, the NYCS raised the IH of these cars during the production run, building large numbers of 9 ft 3 in and 10 ft IH cars.
 
Another example: what is the most common NYCS hopper car?  The USRA/USRA-design twin?  Bob Karig's early common standard?  Oddball IL offset twins?  It sure as heck isn't the AAR offset twin, which was a rare care on the NYCS - only 1000 cars!
 
How many?  Nobody really knows because nobody cares enough to go through the Byzantine lot system of the NYCS to really figure this out.
 
The B&O is another one - the M-53 and M-15 subclass wagontop boxcar were certainly signature cars of the railroad, but they were far outnumbered by the 1923 ARA alternate standard steel boxcars.
 
Additionally, there's another slamdunk that hasn't been done yet - the 10 ft IH postwar steel boxcar.  (The Intermountain car is a prototype unique to the GN.)  You can sell NYC Pacemaker boxcars and SP Overnight boxcars until the sun turns into a red giant, and that doesn't include the other prototypes!
 
 
Ben Hom 



Alexander Schneider Jr
 

Noel,
 
He wrote that the lot numbering system of the NYCS (New York Central System) is Byzantine, which may or may not agree with your perception or mine, but he did not comment on the Society.
 
Alex

From: "nycbigfour@..."
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 11:38 AM
Subject: RE: RE: Re: [STMFC] Re: Most needed car?



Ben,
 The NYCSHS is no longer Byzantine.  We have made several changes over the last two years and I think you would find that we are now in the business of helping modelers.  Check out our website www.nycshs.og  You will find that we have published several editions of an online NYCentral Modeler magazine and have offered several new NYC models and have several more in the pipeline.
 thanks, Noel
 Noel Widdifield
NYCSHS Director



---In STMFC@..., wrote:

Seems there is quite a few cars in the list of "most needed" and for the past 20 yrs or so I always thought it was the N&W HU/HUa 70T hopper

Jeff Coleman


---In STMFC@..., wrote:

It would be interesting to see a list of "signature" cars and find out what types have been offered and what has not been offered.
 
- Steve Hedlund, Everett WA


On Monday, October 21, 2013 1:36 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
 
Doug Harding wrote:
"What else is there?"
 
Signature cars for major roads that have not been sufficiently explored or analyzed, and the biggest elephant in the room is the New York Central.  What modelers think is covered and what we really need as steam era freight car modelers are two different things, and we really don't know what we don't know, even with the efforts of Jeff English in the late 1990s.
 
For example, the recent release of the Broadway Limited 8 ft 7 in IH USRA-design steel boxcar would lead you to believe that we have the most common boxcar covered.  However, the NYCS raised the IH of these cars during the production run, building large numbers of 9 ft 3 in and 10 ft IH cars.
 
Another example: what is the most common NYCS hopper car?  The USRA/USRA-design twin?  Bob Karig's early common standard?  Oddball IL offset twins?  It sure as heck isn't the AAR offset twin, which was a rare care on the NYCS - only 1000 cars!
 
How many?  Nobody really knows because nobody cares enough to go through the Byzantine lot system of the NYCS to really figure this out.
 
The B&O is another one - the M-53 and M-15 subclass wagontop boxcar were certainly signature cars of the railroad, but they were far outnumbered by the 1923 ARA alternate standard steel boxcars.
 
Additionally, there's another slamdunk that hasn't been done yet - the 10 ft IH postwar steel boxcar.  (The Intermountain car is a prototype unique to the GN.)  You can sell NYC Pacemaker boxcars and SP Overnight boxcars until the sun turns into a red giant, and that doesn't include the other prototypes!
 
 
Ben Hom 







Benjamin Hom
 

Noel Widdefield wrote:
"The NYCSHS is no longer Byzantine.  We have made several changes over the last two years and I think you would find that we are now in the business of helping modelers.  Check out our website http://www.nycshs.og/  You will find that we have published several editions of an online NYCentral Modeler magazine and have offered several new NYC models and have several more in the pipeline."
 
Noel, these efforts are certainly steps in the right direction and are defintely appreciated.  However, one of the things that would help the hobby the most is effort directed towards "big picture" projects such as ones that would answer the questions that I asked in my previous posts - what do modelers and manufacturers really need to know about modeling the New York Central System?  These are admittedly not easy projects, and it will take concerted effort by people who know what they are doing to get them right.  Right now, you're only bumping along the edges of the iceberg.  For examples of what I mean, see the Elden Gatwood's articles on gons, Bruce Smith and Elden's articles on flat cars, and my articles on boxcars in earlier issues of The Keystone Modeler, and PRRT&HS flat car and gon books.
 
 
Ben Hom


Ray Breyer
 

How many?  Nobody really knows because nobody cares enough to go through the Byzantine
lot system of the NYCS to really figure this out.
Ben Hom 
 
Hi Ben,
 
The NYCL (LINES) lot system isn't hard to understand at all: you just ignore it. At least, you don't rely on it for anything.
 
What you have to do is cross-index three things: the lot numbers, the pages of the diagram book they're in, and their general arrangement drawing numbers. Crossing all three at the same time gives you a better picture of what was going on in the NYC's fleet. The lot numbers themselves are really nothing more than purchase order numbers.
 
Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL