Topics

Tru-color paint

Clark Propst
 

I finally squirted some Tru-color paint yesterday. I bought a bottle of some UP freight car color from a vendor last summer at the St Louis RPM meet thinking it would be a redder hue than most. Yesterday I airbrushed it on the underside of one of two Pennsy X29s I’d just finished, thinking it might look ok on them. I was surprised to see that the color looked just like the color of a UP box car  :  )) Much browner than I was thinking it look. The stuff sprayed well right out of the bottle with a nice gloss and cleaned up with acetone.
Of course I didn’t spray the rest of the cars with that color, but now that I’ve tried it I will be buying more. Hopefully I can find a vendor before the St Louis meet....
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

Alexander Schneider Jr
 

Al's Hobby Shop in Elmhurst IL has a rack of this paint, as does Des Plaines Hobbies. Not that I'm suggesting you drive to the Chicago area, but Tru-Color seems to be filling the shelf space abandoned by Floquil and Pollyscale.
 
Alex Schneider

From: "cepropst@q.com"
To: STMFC
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2013 1:42 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Tru-color paint



I finally squirted some Tru-color paint yesterday. I bought a bottle of some UP freight car color from a vendor last summer at the St Louis RPM meet thinking it would be a redder hue than most. Yesterday I airbrushed it on the underside of one of two Pennsy X29s I’d just finished, thinking it might look ok on them. I was surprised to see that the color looked just like the color of a UP box car  :  )) Much browner than I was thinking it look. The stuff sprayed well right out of the bottle with a nice gloss and cleaned up with acetone.
Of course I didn’t spray the rest of the cars with that color, but now that I’ve tried it I will be buying more. Hopefully I can find a vendor before the St Louis meet....
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa




 

For those not close to a LHS, Tru Color paints can be purchased over the phone or by email:

http://www.trucolorpaint.com/

Donald B. Valentine
 

--- In STMFC@..., <lajrmdlr@...> wrote:

For those not close to a LHS, Tru Color paints can be purchased over the phone or by email:
http://www.trucolorpaint.com/

And as I have noted before, the same paint from the same formulation and the same paint supplier as the former Accu-Paint line. Tru Color, like Accu-Paint simply bottles it from 5 gallon pails. Easily the best thing available for use on styrene.

Andy Carlson
 

Don,
Accupaint bottled up their product from ONE gallon pails, not five. And they stepped on it a bit, supposedly to enhance the covering abilities, but I suspect it was to increase the profit margin. Tim O'Connor could tell us much more, as he knew the principals.

Tru-paint, like Accupaint, is sourced from Southern California.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


From: Don
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2013 10:55 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint

 


--- In STMFC@..., wrote:
>
> For those not close to a LHS, Tru Color paints can be purchased over the phone or by email:
> http://www.trucolorpaint.com/
>

And as I have noted before, the same paint from the same formulation and the same paint supplier as the former Accu-Paint line. Tru Color, like Accu-Paint simply bottles it from 5 gallon pails. Easily the best thing available for use on styrene.



Craig Zeni
 

3a. Re: Tru-color paint
Posted by: "Don" riverman_vt@... riverman_vt
Date: Sat Dec 7, 2013 8:03 pm ((PST))



--- In STMFC@..., <lajrmdlr@...> wrote:

For those not close to a LHS, Tru Color paints can be purchased over the phone or by email:
http://www.trucolorpaint.com/

And as I have noted before, the same paint from the same formulation and the same paint supplier as the former Accu-Paint line. Tru Color, like Accu-Paint simply bottles it from 5 gallon pails. Easily the best thing available for use on styrene.
I have some NYO&W decals that were custom made by Mal Houck back in the early 1980s that have the yellow stripes for the diesels. He told me the color was matched to Accupaint's Light Imitation Gold...and sure enough it matched very very well to the Tru-Color Light Imitation Gold.


Craig Zeni
Sent from my soup can with the string pulled really tight.

Donald B. Valentine
 

--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

Don,
Accupaint bottled up their product from ONE gallon pails, not five. And they stepped on it a bit, supposedly to enhance the covering abilities, but I suspect it was to increase the profit margin. Tim O'Connor could tell us much more, as he knew the principals.

Tru-paint, like Accupaint, is sourced from Southern California.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

You are correct on the source but that is all, Andy.
As far as Tim O'Connor is concerned I knew George Bishop, the sole "pricipal" and quite well at that as we used to meet at
noon at least once per week, before anyone over heard of Tim.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Andy Carlson
 

Don,
This isn't meant to promote a spitting match, and I don't doubt that you knew George Bishop and I am not surprised longer then Tim. Your 5 gallon pails, though is incorrect. I saw the supplies on the pallet as received from California, and there were multiple cardboard cartons containing four ONE gallon pails (128 fluid ounces). I was told he got about double after adding his additives.

George's proprietary thinner was his own creation.

And did you know that it was not George Bishop who "Discovered" Accu-paint? George learned from Fred of Front Range that the lacquer Fred was using on his freight car kits was from the specialty coatings of Southern California. George was smart to recognize an excellent product for hobbyist use. Star Brands and Tru-color may never had heard about that source if George's underpaid help didn't freely offer their source for the lacquer.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



From: Don
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2013 11:34 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint

 


--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson wrote:
>
> Don,
> Accupaint bottled up their product from ONE gallon pails, not five. And they stepped on it a bit, supposedly to enhance the covering abilities, but I suspect it was to increase the profit margin. Tim O'Connor could tell us much more, as he knew the principals.
>
> Tru-paint, like Accupaint, is sourced from Southern California.
> -Andy Carlson
> Ojai CA

You are correct on the source but that is all, Andy.
As far as Tim O'Connor is concerned I knew George Bishop, the sole "pricipal" and quite well at that as we used to meet at
noon at least once per week, before anyone over heard of Tim.

Cordially, Don Valentine



Timothy Cannon
 

On the subject of True Color Paint- The Protocraft Decal web site calls for TCP-923 color for a certain decal set. For the life of me I cannot find this number listed anywhere on the TCP color chart. Am I missing something here or what???

Thanks!

Tim

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 1:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint

 

 



--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
>
> Don,
> Accupaint bottled up their product from ONE gallon pails, not five. And they stepped on it a bit, supposedly to enhance the covering abilities, but I suspect it was to increase the profit margin. Tim O'Connor could tell us much more, as he knew the principals.
>
> Tru-paint, like Accupaint, is sourced from Southern California.
> -Andy Carlson
> Ojai CA

You are correct on the source but that is all, Andy.
As far as Tim O'Connor is concerned I knew George Bishop, the sole "pricipal" and quite well at that as we used to meet at
noon at least once per week, before anyone over heard of Tim.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Gene Deimling
 

Tim

You are.  Protocraft published a little flyer that grouped paints based upon similarity of shades.  I believe Ed Hawkins may have consulted with Norm Buckhart on this scheme.  Some of the lettering sets don't have a discrete paint number in the Tru-Color line.   The numbers assigned to groups allow one to pick a paint that is available in the group.  


Gene Deimling

El Dorado Hills, CA

Tim O'Connor
 

Don

What a silly argument. I didn't meet George until 1988. Obviously I was
not the first person to know George.

But, Andy is correct. The paint came in 1 gallon quantities by 1988, for
certain. And even at that size, George got about 250 bottles out of a gallon.
In fact this "huge" quantity was the reason that George allowed his stock to
dry up completely and he would not re-order a color until he had back orders
to cover his up front cost! All arguments that this was a really bad way to
run a paint business fell on deaf ears, since people could not GET his paints
at all for long periods of time. George was a masterful modeler, but not a
good businessman. Still, I learned a lot from George!

Tim O'

Accupaint bottled up their product from ONE gallon pails, not five.
> You are correct on the source but that is all, Andy.
> Cordially, Don Valentine

Norm Buckhart
 

TIm - Protocraft's TCP numbers are a propitiatory number assigned by True Color Paints for the Protocraft Paint Package line - where you can order them .  The 8 freight car red/brown colors are matched to actual paint chips given to Ed Hawkins, Pat Wider and Ray Long (publishers of the comprehensive RP CYC series) when they were given access to AC&F's factory archives long before the factory closed and the materials were sent to the St Louis Mercantile Library at the University of Missouri (where they can be seen today.)  Ed's research separating all the many chips taken from drift cards at the back of each Bill of Materials for each Lot number of cars ordered and built at ACF, proved that while there were many paint manufacturers specified by the car purchaser, and each had a name or different number for their product, or both, that dozens of different chips would reveal themselves to be identical.  For Pullman, the Bill of Materials was the reference, but the same paint manufacturers were used.

The net of Ed's research - and I have gone through his collection of grouped colors - is that there really was only 8 different shades of freight car red/brown.  For example, the early shades fell into what we called Group I.  This was a dark brown used in the early years:1930-1940's.  Different paint chips had different paint manufacturers such as Glidden, Pittsburg Paint, Dupont and others, with each having a part number and usually a named color.   The roads that specified the Group I colors were ATSF, B&O, CGW, C&O, ERIE, NK,  PM, KCS, L&A, MP and subsidiarys, NdeM, RI and W&LE.  BUT when the chips were laid out on the table in sunlight - they were all identical in color and shade.

Therefor if painting a model for any of these roads for the period 1930-1940's, TCP-921 would be correct.  However there is a caveat to this - while prototypically correct, this shade is a very dark brown.  Next it is important to understand that this paint faded and oxidized rather quickly, resulting in a much lighter shade.  The shade gets lighter as the paint oxidized over a period of 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, etc.  So you don't want to use the TCP paint straight out of the bottle, unless you want to model the day the car came out of the paint shop.  The answer is to mix in a small amount of TCP179 Grey (included in the paint package) to achieve the years the car was being exposed to the elements.  This is achieved by first priming a piece of scrap styrene and then experimenting to find the shade you want.  And finally, examine your dried sample under the layout's lights, which will be different than sunlight.

Then too, after 8-10 years the cars were repainted, using a later shade of paint, and probably a new synthetic one, plus new lettering schemes.  The actual paint chips show the same thing in these groups, but now with a more reddish hues and oxidized colors; hence the higher TCP Group numbers, ending in Group VIII.   These were slower to fade, but they did and still need to be blended with TCP-179 to replicate normal aging.

The result is a very accurate color for your period model, from the 1930's right up to the 1960's.

Norm Buckhart
Protocraft

On Dec 9, 2013, at 7:16 PM, Timothy Cannon wrote:

 

On the subject of True Color Paint- The Protocraft Decal web site calls for TCP-923 color for a certain decal set. For the life of me I cannot find this number listed anywhere on the TCP color chart. Am I missing something here or what???

Thanks!

Tim

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 1:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint

 

 



--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
>
> Don,
> Accupaint bottled up their product from ONE gallon pails, not five. And they stepped on it a bit, supposedly to enhance the covering abilities, but I suspect it was to increase the profit margin. Tim O'Connor could tell us much more, as he knew the principals.
>
> Tru-paint, like Accupaint, is sourced from Southern California.
> -Andy Carlson
> Ojai CA

You are correct on the source but that is all, Andy.
As far as Tim O'Connor is concerned I knew George Bishop, the sole "pricipal" and quite well at that as we used to meet at
noon at least once per week, before anyone over heard of Tim.

Cordially, Don Valentine



Bill Welch
 

Norm, I hope you will consider putting your research and findings into a presentation for The Beach, Lisle, etc. and/or doing something in one of the mags, print or electronic.


Bill Welch

Timothy Cannon
 

Thanks for the info Norm! I am still unsure as to where I can get this paint. Where can I get TCP-923 or its equal? I am modeling early Frisco cars.

Thanks for any info you can provide.

Tim

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Protocraft
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:14 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint

 

 

TIm - Protocraft's TCP numbers are a propitiatory number assigned by True Color Paints for the Protocraft Paint Package line - where you can order them .  The 8 freight car red/brown colors are matched to actual paint chips given to Ed Hawkins, Pat Wider and Ray Long (publishers of the comprehensive RP CYC series) when they were given access to AC&F's factory archives long before the factory closed and the materials were sent to the St Louis Mercantile Library at the University of Missouri (where they can be seen today.)  Ed's research separating all the many chips taken from drift cards at the back of each Bill of Materials for each Lot number of cars ordered and built at ACF, proved that while there were many paint manufacturers specified by the car purchaser, and each had a name or different number for their product, or both, that dozens of different chips would reveal themselves to be identical.  For Pullman, the Bill of Materials was the reference, but the same paint manufacturers were used.

 

The net of Ed's research - and I have gone through his collection of grouped colors - is that there really was only 8 different shades of freight car red/brown.  For example, the early shades fell into what we called Group I.  This was a dark brown used in the early years:1930-1940's.  Different paint chips had different paint manufacturers such as Glidden, Pittsburg Paint, Dupont and others, with each having a part number and usually a named color.   The roads that specified the Group I colors were ATSF, B&O, CGW, C&O, ERIE, NK,  PM, KCS, L&A, MP and subsidiarys, NdeM, RI and W&LE.  BUT when the chips were laid out on the table in sunlight - they were all identical in color and shade.

 

Therefor if painting a model for any of these roads for the period 1930-1940's, TCP-921 would be correct.  However there is a caveat to this - while prototypically correct, this shade is a very dark brown.  Next it is important to understand that this paint faded and oxidized rather quickly, resulting in a much lighter shade.  The shade gets lighter as the paint oxidized over a period of 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, etc.  So you don't want to use the TCP paint straight out of the bottle, unless you want to model the day the car came out of the paint shop.  The answer is to mix in a small amount of TCP179 Grey (included in the paint package) to achieve the years the car was being exposed to the elements.  This is achieved by first priming a piece of scrap styrene and then experimenting to find the shade you want.  And finally, examine your dried sample under the layout's lights, which will be different than sunlight.

 

Then too, after 8-10 years the cars were repainted, using a later shade of paint, and probably a new synthetic one, plus new lettering schemes.  The actual paint chips show the same thing in these groups, but now with a more reddish hues and oxidized colors; hence the higher TCP Group numbers, ending in Group VIII.   These were slower to fade, but they did and still need to be blended with TCP-179 to replicate normal aging.

 

The result is a very accurate color for your period model, from the 1930's right up to the 1960's.

 

Norm Buckhart

Protocraft

 

On Dec 9, 2013, at 7:16 PM, Timothy Cannon wrote:



 

 

On the subject of True Color Paint- The Protocraft Decal web site calls for TCP-923 color for a certain decal set. For the life of me I cannot find this number listed anywhere on the TCP color chart. Am I missing something here or what???

Thanks!

Tim

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 1:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint

 

 



--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
>
> Don,
> Accupaint bottled up their product from ONE gallon pails, not five. And they stepped on it a bit, supposedly to enhance the covering abilities, but I suspect it was to increase the profit margin. Tim O'Connor could tell us much more, as he knew the principals.
>
> Tru-paint, like Accupaint, is sourced from Southern California.
> -Andy Carlson
> Ojai CA

You are correct on the source but that is all, Andy.
As far as Tim O'Connor is concerned I knew George Bishop, the sole "pricipal" and quite well at that as we used to meet at
noon at least once per week, before anyone over heard of Tim.

Cordially, Don Valentine

 

 

Norm Buckhart
 

Protocraft's paint packages are available only from Protocraft.   while not yet on the web catalog you can order directly.  Just email me at norm@... with the specific model you are doing and we will assemble the correct paint package for you.  Norm

On Dec 12, 2013, at 5:05 AM, Timothy Cannon wrote:

 

Thanks for the info Norm! I am still unsure as to where I can get this paint. Where can I get TCP-923 or its equal? I am modeling early Frisco cars.

Thanks for any info you can provide.

Tim

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Protocraft
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:14 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint

 

 

TIm - Protocraft's TCP numbers are a propitiatory number assigned by True Color Paints for the Protocraft Paint Package line - where you can order them .  The 8 freight car red/brown colors are matched to actual paint chips given to Ed Hawkins, Pat Wider and Ray Long (publishers of the comprehensive RP CYC series) when they were given access to AC&F's factory archives long before the factory closed and the materials were sent to the St Louis Mercantile Library at the University of Missouri (where they can be seen today.)  Ed's research separating all the many chips taken from drift cards at the back of each Bill of Materials for each Lot number of cars ordered and built at ACF, proved that while there were many paint manufacturers specified by the car purchaser, and each had a name or different number for their product, or both, that dozens of different chips would reveal themselves to be identical.  For Pullman, the Bill of Materials was the reference, but the same paint manufacturers were used.

 

The net of Ed's research - and I have gone through his collection of grouped colors - is that there really was only 8 different shades of freight car red/brown.  For example, the early shades fell into what we called Group I.  This was a dark brown used in the early years:1930-1940's.  Different paint chips had different paint manufacturers such as Glidden, Pittsburg Paint, Dupont and others, with each having a part number and usually a named color.   The roads that specified the Group I colors were ATSF, B&O, CGW, C&O, ERIE, NK,  PM, KCS, L&A, MP and subsidiarys, NdeM, RI and W&LE.  BUT when the chips were laid out on the table in sunlight - they were all identical in color and shade.

 

Therefor if painting a model for any of these roads for the period 1930-1940's, TCP-921 would be correct.  However there is a caveat to this - while prototypically correct, this shade is a very dark brown.  Next it is important to understand that this paint faded and oxidized rather quickly, resulting in a much lighter shade.  The shade gets lighter as the paint oxidized over a period of 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, etc.  So you don't want to use the TCP paint straight out of the bottle, unless you want to model the day the car came out of the paint shop.  The answer is to mix in a small amount of TCP179 Grey (included in the paint package) to achieve the years the car was being exposed to the elements.  This is achieved by first priming a piece of scrap styrene and then experimenting to find the shade you want.  And finally, examine your dried sample under the layout's lights, which will be different than sunlight.

 

Then too, after 8-10 years the cars were repainted, using a later shade of paint, and probably a new synthetic one, plus new lettering schemes.  The actual paint chips show the same thing in these groups, but now with a more reddish hues and oxidized colors; hence the higher TCP Group numbers, ending in Group VIII.   These were slower to fade, but they did and still need to be blended with TCP-179 to replicate normal aging.

 

The result is a very accurate color for your period model, from the 1930's right up to the 1960's.

 

Norm Buckhart

Protocraft

 

On Dec 9, 2013, at 7:16 PM, Timothy Cannon wrote:



 

 

On the subject of True Color Paint- The Protocraft Decal web site calls for TCP-923 color for a certain decal set. For the life of me I cannot find this number listed anywhere on the TCP color chart. Am I missing something here or what???

Thanks!

Tim

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 1:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint

 

 



--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
>
> Don,
> Accupaint bottled up their product from ONE gallon pails, not five. And they stepped on it a bit, supposedly to enhance the covering abilities, but I suspect it was to increase the profit margin. Tim O'Connor could tell us much more, as he knew the principals.
>
> Tru-paint, like Accupaint, is sourced from Southern California.
> -Andy Carlson
> Ojai CA

You are correct on the source but that is all, Andy.
As far as Tim O'Connor is concerned I knew George Bishop, the sole "pricipal" and quite well at that as we used to meet at
noon at least once per week, before anyone over heard of Tim.

Cordially, Don Valentine

 

 



Matt Smith
 

I used Tru Color for almost all of my projects this last year. Things that have worked for me. 

Use the Tru Color brand thinner, I thin maybe 20-25%, I clean up with laquer thinner.
Use several drops of Tru Color retarder in the cup (I use an Iwata with fine tip).
I shoot with a 20lb CO2 tank, (moisture in line does not exist and lasts forever)
I shoot 30 psi.
You will use more volume of paint then say Vallejo or Pollys
Several light coats as stated it dries very fast.

This is all per the FAQ on the Tru Color website.

Much like switching from Pollys to Vallejo there is a curve and start with products recommended by the manufacturer and work out from there.

I now prefer Vallejo Acrylics for weathering with an airbrush and shooting the car bodies with Tru Color as it is decal ready when dry.

Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL




Jon Miller
 

    Well I decided to use Scalecoat.  And even thought it looked good and sprayed on another surface good it came out blotched on the BL sides.  Figured I had a ruined pair of sides but took some Scalecoat gloss and thinned it a bunch.  Lightly sprayed that over and I think everything is OK.  One problem is it's going to take a while to dry.
    What makes me mad about these modern hobby paints is that I have a very old (40 years?) 2 oz bottle of Floquil boxcar red.  This paint works as good as the day it was made.


-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Donald B. Valentine
 




---In STMFC@..., <atsfus@...> wrote :

    Well I decided to use Scalecoat.  And even thought it looked good and sprayed on another surface good it came out blotched on the BL sides.  Figured I had a ruined pair of sides but took some Scalecoat gloss and thinned it a bunch.  Lightly sprayed that over and I think everything is OK.  One problem is it's going to take a while to dry.
    What makes me mad about these modern hobby paints is that I have a very old (40 years?) 2 oz bottle of Floquil boxcar red.  This paint works as good as the day it was made.


-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Jeez Jon,
   Count me as one of those who thought Floquil was worthless the day it was made and forever afterward except for weathering. Do you want more of it? There may still be several bottles of it here from a good friend who passed away. If interested contact me off list and I might make you an offer you can't refuse.
Cordially, Don Valentine