Sunshine resale values..
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I -WAS- thinking of actually building my Sunshine kits, but I'm
tempted to resell them... $138 for a KIT? Really? Speedwitch too! http://www.ebay.com/itm/161232521273 http://www.ebay.com/itm/161232519725 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151238908638 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151237937136 http://www.ebay.com/itm/201040794850 Tim O'
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tjcataldo
it would easyer to make a rubber mold and pouring resin make copy its not that hard tom
On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
--
Thomas j Cataldo
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Robert J Miller CFA
I'm hoping somebody buys Sunshine Models - a la Westerfield Models - and continues the business.
From: Tom Cataldo
To: STMFC@... Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2014 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Sunshine resale values.. it would easyer to make a rubber mold and pouring resin make copy its not that hard tomOn Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
-- Thomas j Cataldo
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Dennis Williams
She would want a small fortune. Question, does she own the masters? That would make a big difference. Dennis Williams
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On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 1:07 PM PST Bob Miller wrote:
I'm hoping somebody buys Sunshine Models - a la Westerfield Models - and continues the business.
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Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...>
Yes. As far as I know the patterns are
the property of the company.
The problem is the valuation of that kind of company. The margins are not adequate to repay investors. Recall what Al's initial asking price was and what it actually sold for in the end. The whole prospect is far more complex than most would think. Pierre Oliver www.elgincarshops.com www.yarmouthmodelworks.comOn 3/2/2014 4:53 PM, Dennis Williams wrote:
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I have to admit that I too have paid a few ridicules prices on eBay, guess it depends on how bad you want it or my brain totally malfunctioned, lol!. The Speedwitch kits will be available again, just a matter of time, so I wouldn't bid too high. Rich Christie
On Sunday, March 2, 2014 4:45 PM, Dennis Williams wrote: She would want a small fortune. Question, does she own the masters? That would make a big difference. Dennis Williams ------------------------------ On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 1:07 PM PST Bob Miller wrote: >I'm hoping somebody buys Sunshine Models - a la Westerfield Models - and continues the business. > > >________________________________ > From: Tom Cataldo >To: STMFC@... >Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2014 3:10 PM >Subject: Re: [STMFC] Sunshine resale values.. > > > > >it would easyer to make a rubber mold and pouring resin make copy its not that hard > > tom > > > > >On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote: > > >> >> >>I -WAS- thinking of actually building my Sunshine kits, but I'm >>tempted to resell them... $138 for a KIT? Really? Speedwitch too! >> >>http://www.ebay.com/itm/161232521273 >>http://www.ebay.com/itm/161232519725 >>http://www.ebay.com/itm/151238908638 >>http://www.ebay.com/itm/151237937136 >>http://www.ebay.com/itm/201040794850 >> >>Tim O' >> >> > > >-- > >Thomas j Cataldo > >
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Clark Propst
I’ve thought about what those with stock piles of kits they’ll never build
are going to do with them? In my opinion, now would be the best time for them to
recoup their money. In another 5-10 years I’m afraid the kits will be next to
worthless.
Clark
Propst Mason City Iowa
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Clark – Last year I sold the bulk of my pre-business collection – mostly
brass locos and super detailed screwdriver kits – on eBay. Made about
$7,000. Remember, he who dies with the most kits loses. – Al
Westerfield
From: cepropst@q.com
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 10:42 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine resale values..
I’ve thought about what those with stock piles of kits they’ll never build
are going to do with them? In my opinion, now would be the best time for them to
recoup their money. In another 5-10 years I’m afraid the kits will be next to
worthless.
Clark
Propst Mason City Iowa
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Clark
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People have been predicting the death of model railroading for 50 years... I think the current generation raised on RTR may decide, as many of us do as we get older, to try something more interesting and challenging -- like building prototypical models! That's what makes us modelers, and not just collectors. Tim O'
I've thought about what those with stock piles of kits they'll never build are going to do with them? In my opinion, now would be the best time for them to recoup their money. In another 5-10 years I'm afraid the kits will be next to worthless.
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clipper841@att.net <clipper841@...>
clark:
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good try, but if they haven't been built yet, they probably will get buried with their owners, or some vulture will pick the widow's bones clean mel perry
On Mar 3, 2014, at 12:40 PM, Al and Patricia Westerfield wrote:
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Jack Burgess <jack@...>
Interesting idea Clark! I recently read about a fellow from the mid-west who loved his Harley Davidson motorcycle so much that, when he died, he was buried in a Plexiglas case sitting on his Harley which was buried with him.
I can see it now...in a casket surrounded by unbuilt resin kits and a sign...Never Enough Time, I Should Have Started on Them Earlier!
Jack Burgess
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of clipper841@...
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 2:11 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine resale values..
good try, but if they haven't been built yet, they probably will get buried with their owners, or some vulture will pick the widow's bones clean mel perry
On Mar 3, 2014, at 12:40 PM, Al and Patricia Westerfield wrote:
Clark – Last year I sold the bulk of my pre-business collection – mostly brass locos and super detailed screwdriver kits – on eBay. Made about $7,000. Remember, he who dies with the most kits loses. – Al Westerfield
From: cepropst@q.com Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 10:42 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine resale values..
I’ve thought about what those with stock piles of kits they’ll never build are going to do with them? In my opinion, now would be the best time for them to recoup their money. In another 5-10 years I’m afraid the kits will be next to worthless. Clark Propst
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Dennis Williams
Jack. That is why I am in business. By the way, I have about 300+ kits of my own unbuilt. HMMMMMM. Never enough time. Dennis Williams/Owner
On Monday, March 3, 2014 5:55 PM, Jack Burgess
wrote: Interesting idea Clark! I recently read about a fellow from the mid-west who loved his Harley Davidson motorcycle so much that, when he died, he was buried in a Plexiglas case sitting on his Harley which was buried with him. I can see it now...in a casket surrounded by unbuilt resin kits and a sign...Never Enough Time, I Should Have Started on Them Earlier! Jack Burgess From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of clipper841@... Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 2:11 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine resale values.. clark: good try, but if they haven't been built yet, they probably will get buried with their
owners, or some vulture will pick the widow's bones clean mel perry On Mar 3, 2014, at 12:40 PM, Al and Patricia Westerfield wrote: Clark – Last year I sold the bulk of my pre-business collection – mostly brass locos and
super detailed screwdriver kits – on eBay. Made about $7,000. Remember, he who dies with the most kits loses. – Al Westerfield From: cepropst@q.com Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 10:42 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine resale values.. I’ve thought about what those with
stock piles of kits they’ll never build are going to do with them? In my opinion, now would be the best time for them to recoup their money. In another 5-10 years I’m afraid the kits will be next to worthless. Clark Propst Mason City Iowa
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tyesac@...
What's happening is a pure case of "auction frenzy" whereby bidders are more focused on winning than the considering reasonable cash value of what they're getting for the money. I say that as someone who was out bid on a few of those things, and have no regrets of "losing" an auction with the knowledge I still have cash in my pocket for when the next auction for the same item inevitably comes up again. Having attended a few old car auctions, this is mild stuff, ever see what a mid sixties Corvette with the right/engine/trans/original match to build sheet goes for? You could buy a nice house for what those can bid up to. (and believe me, that car won't be a daily driver!)
For our hobby, those high prices can have a good news/bad news effect. High prices may attract a new supplier to the business if they see an opportunity to sell kits somewhere between Sunshine's original prices and the nutty high auction price ranges , but the price increase will ripple through the market.
Tom Casey
-----Original Message----- From: Dennis Williams To: STMFC Sent: Mon, Mar 3, 2014 6:42 pm Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine resale values.. Jack. That is why I am in business. By the way, I have about 300+
kits of my own unbuilt. HMMMMMM. Never enough time.
Dennis Williams/Owner
On Monday, March 3, 2014 5:55 PM, Jack Burgess
<jack@...> wrote:
Interesting idea Clark! I recently read about a fellow from the mid-west who loved his Harley Davidson motorcycle so much that, when he died, he was buried in a Plexiglas case sitting on his Harley which was buried with him.
I can see it now...in a casket surrounded by unbuilt resin kits and a sign...Never Enough Time, I Should Have Started on Them Earlier!
Jack Burgess
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of clipper841@...
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 2:11 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine resale values.. clark: good try, but if they haven't been built yet, they probably will get buried with their
owners,
or some vulture will pick the widow's bones clean
mel perry
On Mar 3, 2014, at 12:40 PM, Al and Patricia Westerfield wrote:
Clark – Last year I sold the bulk of my pre-business collection – mostly brass locos and
super detailed screwdriver kits – on eBay. Made about $7,000. Remember, he who dies with the most kits loses. – Al Westerfield
From: cepropst@q.com
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 10:42 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine resale values..
I’ve thought about what those with
stock piles of kits they’ll never build are going to do with them? In my opinion, now would be the best time for them to recoup their money. In another 5-10 years I’m afraid the kits will be next to worthless.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
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rob.mclear3@...
Hi Tom
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I really don't know if some of those were "auction frenzy" or not, I know personally that as a prototype modeller that needs certain freight/passenger/head end cars, if I need it, I need it, and I don't really care what the price goes to and believe me some of these things never get repeated. For me personally trying to recreate something is more important than the money. Having said that of course these days on a military disability pension funds are tight so I have my maximums that I can spend but if the right car comes up and I need it then I am prepared to go pretty high. Kind of damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead kind of thing. As for what Clarke said, I'm not so sure about that either I think Sunshine kits will be in demand for a very long time there are a lot of people out there just starting to realise the joy of finishing a craftsman resin kit and Sunshine were amongst the very best in some respects. I think the future will see more of a demand for kits that are no longer being produced not less. I really hope that Sunshine does not go under and that someone like Andrew at Westerfield can manage to pick up the business and keep it going. It would be a sad day if all of those moulds and all of that work were to go to the never never so to speak. Rob McLear. ---In STMFC@..., <tyesac@...> wrote: What's happening is a pure case of "auction frenzy" whereby bidders are more focused on winning than the considering reasonable cash value of what they're getting for the money. I say that as someone who was out bid on a few of those things, and have no regrets of "losing" an auction with the knowledge I still have cash in my pocket for when the next auction for the same item inevitably comes up again. Having attended a few old car auctions, this is mild stuff, ever see what a mid sixties Corvette with the right/engine/trans/original match to build sheet goes for? You could buy a nice house for what those can bid up to. (and believe me, that car won't be a daily driver!) For our hobby, those high prices can have a good news/bad news effect. High prices may attract a new supplier to the business if they see an opportunity to sell kits somewhere between Sunshine's original prices and the nutty high auction price ranges , but the price increase will ripple through the market. Tom Casey
-----Original Message----- From: Dennis Williams <pennsy6200@...> To: STMFC <STMFC@...> Sent: Mon, Mar 3, 2014 6:42 pm Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine resale values.. Jack. That is why I am in business. By the way, I have about 300+ kits of my own unbuilt. HMMMMMM. Never enough time. Dennis Williams/Owner On Monday, March 3, 2014 5:55 PM, Jack Burgess
<jack@...> wrote: Interesting idea Clark! I recently read about a fellow from the mid-west who loved his Harley Davidson motorcycle so much that, when he died, he was buried in a Plexiglas case sitting on his Harley which was buried with him. I can see it now...in a casket surrounded by unbuilt resin kits and a sign...Never Enough Time, I Should Have Started on Them Earlier! Jack Burgess From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of clipper841@... Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 2:11 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine resale values.. clark: good try, but if they haven't been built yet, they probably will get buried with their
owners, or some vulture will pick the widow's bones clean mel perry
Clark – Last year I sold the bulk of my pre-business collection – mostly brass locos and
super detailed screwdriver kits – on eBay. Made about $7,000. Remember, he who dies with the most kits loses. – Al Westerfield From: cepropst@... Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 10:42 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine resale values.. I’ve thought about what those with
stock piles of kits they’ll never build are going to do with them? In my opinion, now would be the best time for them to recoup their money. In another 5-10 years I’m afraid the kits will be next to worthless. Clark Propst Mason City Iowa
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Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
Dennis, 300+ kits is $3,000+ in trucks and couplers (to say nothing of paint and misc. supplies), and over 3000 hours in construction time. Do you have the time and resources to build all those kits in your lifetime? Nelson Moyer
On Mar 3, 2014, at 4:06 PM, Dennis Williams <pennsy6200@...> wrote:
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Recently I've seen well-built Westerfield models go for between $150 and $200
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on Feebay. If you can get the build time down to 7-8 hours and finish one car a day, that's not a terrible living, clearing $100 a car. I believe some people on this list have built 500 or more resin kits, so it's not impossible to do. Tim O'
Dennis,
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Dennis Williams
Right now I have very close to 300 built kits on my layout. When I have my layout open for the NMRA usually in April, this is the feature they want to see. Trust me, they are overwhelmed.
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I have it down to under 6 hours of TOTAL time per car. Some, vin tank, take longer. I build 30 at a time. I always throw a few of mine in also. Build all bodies first, bottom detail next, side details, roof details then end brake detail last. During the winter I work 10 to 12 hours a day on these. My wife's co. is seasonal. A lot of free time in winter. Building all of the stored kits will take time. Hard part is finding the time for doing the brass restoring. As for profit, 1 or 2 cars at a time is rough, 4+, way better. As for how many I built, 1000+ easy. Remember, I have been doing this for many years. Dennis Williams ------------------------------
On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 8:20 PM PST Tim O'Connor wrote:
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Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...>
Tim,
If you're like Dennis and myself, and doing this as part of your living(for me it's a significant part) a car a day is a good average to aim for. That doesn't mean I'm cranking out over 300 cars a year, there are other things that arise. But I have well over 1000 kits under my belt now. It's also worth noting that there's no way that one car actually gets completely finished in one day. Painting, drying time, decal application, etc can't be rushed, but shop organization can allow for a jobs in various states of completion. I also will take breaks from custom building work to recharge the "batteries" and make progress on my own stuff. It can be a delicate balancing act, but it's worked out so far. Those "breaks" also take the form of flurries of work at the arena, like when we had Disney on Ice in for a week. NO model building that week. Pierre Oliver www.elgincarshops.com www.yarmouthmodelworks.comOn 3/3/2014 11:20 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
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Clark Propst
I was expecting arbitrary replies. The hobby’s not going away, nor is the
resin market. Let me explain my logic.
If we look at just Sunshine Models. They targeted the transition era. The
majority of modelers of that era are from an age group that remembers those
times. They are also from the kit building modeling era. As this ‘wave’, if you
will, of modelers ages their collections, built/unbuilt will come on the market.
The supply could out grown the demand, driving prices down.
So, sell those collections now while we who build can enjoy their “play
value” ; ))
Clark
Propst Mason City Iowa
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Allen Cain
What has me scratching my head is not necessarily the “death of model railroading” but the potential loss of interest in the “transition” and earlier eras as us older modelers get buried with our unbuilt kits in tow.
Allen Cain
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