[EXTERNAL] J.W. Ellsworth Coal GL design cars (UNCLASSIFIED)


David
 

There was a large disbursement of privately-owned hoppers and gondolas circa 1922, prompted by one of those ICC rulings. A few of the larger fleets stayed private (Berwind, Westmoreland, Koppers), but most of the smaller ones were sold off, either to the connecting railroad or on the open market.

David Thompson


David
 

That was the car that PRR backdated for display at the 1939 World's Fair. It eventually found its way to the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania.

David Thompson


 

As described in my clinic Billboard Reefers and Other Disasters: How Government Regulations Affected Car Building, ICC regulations forced private coal companies to divest themselves of their cars, not once, but twice.  Only Berwind was strong enough to maintain their fleet.  They did it better than Pennsy which is why those GLA’s, when sold to Pennsy, were the last on the roster.  As far as I am able to determine, the cars owned by car mine companies were identical to GL’s and except for Berwind were probably maintained by the railroad.  I’m not sure but I think the clinic was reprinted in book form.  Tony Thompson was responsible; maybe he remembers.  The history sheets for GL and GLC/GLCA kits enumerate all the cars I could account for. – Al Westerfield    
 

Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 1:27 PM
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] J.W. Ellsworth Coal GL design cars (UNCLASSIFIED)
 
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Eric;

Here is an interesting shot:

http://cdm16038.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15017coll8/id/2682/rec/985

....and the fact that they deliberately call it a "relic"?

Check out those interior brackets, and dual brake wheels...

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Eric Neubauer
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 11:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] J.W. Ellsworth Coal GL design cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

This was my first thought since they appear to be related to PRR, however I was un able to find any likely number series. 1,000 cars would be hard to hide.

Eric N.




Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Eric;

Have you looked into whether or not they were sold to the PRR? Many coal companies that bought PRR class clones did this when economic downturns necessitated sale of assets. PRR rostered many ex-coal company hoppers.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Eric Neubauer
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:19 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] J.W. Ellsworth Coal GL design cars

Does anyone know where their fleet of 1000+ GL design cars mostly built by PSC in 1902 went? They don't appear to have gone to the coal company successors.

Thanks,
Eric

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE



Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


SUVCWORR@...
 

From a 1904 topo map,  Ellsworth was adjacent to Bentleyville,  It was on the PRR Monongahela & Washington Branch
 
Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Neubauer
To: STMFC
Sent: Wed, Mar 12, 2014 3:02 pm
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] J.W. Ellsworth Coal GL design cars (UNCLASSIFIED)



The coal mines were in the Pittsburgh area and went to Lackawanna Steel in 1907.
 
Eric
 
 
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Eric;

I did not educate myself sufficiently on this topic, since the PRR hopper effort was (perhaps) being pursued by other individuals within the PRRT&HS; however, there was some discussion at one time, some of it with Al Westerfield, over the number of hoppers in certain private fleets declining quickly, and the number of cars appearing in the ORERs under PRR ownership growing by roughly that number. If one were to take it on (ORER analysis), I would guess you could hazard some pretty good guesses as to what was happening, and when. I believe there were significant numbers (like thousands) of H21A that went that way, too. The Berwind-White GLA were some of the last cars leased/sold to the PRR, and surprisingly for a late date, the PRR found room on the roster for those small twins.

BTW, where did Ellsworth run these cars/interchange them onto the PRR?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Eric Neubauer
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 11:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] J.W. Ellsworth Coal GL design cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

This was my first thought since they appear to be related to PRR, however I was un able to find any likely number series. 1,000 cars would be hard to hide.

Eric N.




Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Eric;

Have you looked into whether or not they were sold to the PRR? Many coal companies that bought PRR class clones did this when economic downturns necessitated sale of assets. PRR rostered many ex-coal company hoppers.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Eric Neubauer
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:19 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] J.W. Ellsworth Coal GL design cars

Does anyone know where their fleet of 1000+ GL design cars mostly built by PSC in 1902 went? They don't appear to have gone to the coal company successors.

Thanks,
Eric

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE



Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE




Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

The coal mines were in the Pittsburgh area and went to Lackawanna Steel in 1907.
 
Eric
 

 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Eric;

I did not educate myself sufficiently on this topic, since the PRR hopper effort was (perhaps) being pursued by other individuals within the PRRT&HS; however, there was some discussion at one time, some of it with Al Westerfield, over the number of hoppers in certain private fleets declining quickly, and the number of cars appearing in the ORERs under PRR ownership growing by roughly that number. If one were to take it on (ORER analysis), I would guess you could hazard some pretty good guesses as to what was happening, and when. I believe there were significant numbers (like thousands) of H21A that went that way, too. The Berwind-White GLA were some of the last cars leased/sold to the PRR, and surprisingly for a late date, the PRR found room on the roster for those small twins.

BTW, where did Ellsworth run these cars/interchange them onto the PRR?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Eric Neubauer
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 11:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] J.W. Ellsworth Coal GL design cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

This was my first thought since they appear to be related to PRR, however I was un able to find any likely number series. 1,000 cars would be hard to hide.

Eric N.




Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Eric;

Have you looked into whether or not they were sold to the PRR? Many coal companies that bought PRR class clones did this when economic downturns necessitated sale of assets. PRR rostered many ex-coal company hoppers.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Eric Neubauer
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:19 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] J.W. Ellsworth Coal GL design cars

Does anyone know where their fleet of 1000+ GL design cars mostly built by PSC in 1902 went? They don't appear to have gone to the coal company successors.

Thanks,
Eric

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE



Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Eric;

Here is an interesting shot:

http://cdm16038.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15017coll8/id/2682/rec/985

....and the fact that they deliberately call it a "relic"?

Check out those interior brackets, and dual brake wheels...

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Eric Neubauer
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 11:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] J.W. Ellsworth Coal GL design cars (UNCLASSIFIED)



This was my first thought since they appear to be related to PRR, however I was un able to find any likely number series. 1,000 cars would be hard to hide.

Eric N.




Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Eric;

Have you looked into whether or not they were sold to the PRR? Many coal companies that bought PRR class clones did this when economic downturns necessitated sale of assets. PRR rostered many ex-coal company hoppers.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Eric Neubauer
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:19 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] J.W. Ellsworth Coal GL design cars

Does anyone know where their fleet of 1000+ GL design cars mostly built by PSC in 1902 went? They don't appear to have gone to the coal company successors.

Thanks,
Eric

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Eric;

I did not educate myself sufficiently on this topic, since the PRR hopper effort was (perhaps) being pursued by other individuals within the PRRT&HS; however, there was some discussion at one time, some of it with Al Westerfield, over the number of hoppers in certain private fleets declining quickly, and the number of cars appearing in the ORERs under PRR ownership growing by roughly that number. If one were to take it on (ORER analysis), I would guess you could hazard some pretty good guesses as to what was happening, and when. I believe there were significant numbers (like thousands) of H21A that went that way, too. The Berwind-White GLA were some of the last cars leased/sold to the PRR, and surprisingly for a late date, the PRR found room on the roster for those small twins.

BTW, where did Ellsworth run these cars/interchange them onto the PRR?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Eric Neubauer
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 11:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] J.W. Ellsworth Coal GL design cars (UNCLASSIFIED)



This was my first thought since they appear to be related to PRR, however I was un able to find any likely number series. 1,000 cars would be hard to hide.

Eric N.




Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Eric;

Have you looked into whether or not they were sold to the PRR? Many coal companies that bought PRR class clones did this when economic downturns necessitated sale of assets. PRR rostered many ex-coal company hoppers.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Eric Neubauer
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:19 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] J.W. Ellsworth Coal GL design cars

Does anyone know where their fleet of 1000+ GL design cars mostly built by PSC in 1902 went? They don't appear to have gone to the coal company successors.

Thanks,
Eric

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

This was my first thought since they appear to be related to PRR, however I was un able to find any likely number series. 1,000 cars would be hard to hide.
 
Eric N.
 

 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Eric;

Have you looked into whether or not they were sold to the PRR? Many coal companies that bought PRR class clones did this when economic downturns necessitated sale of assets. PRR rostered many ex-coal company hoppers.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Eric Neubauer
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:19 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] J.W. Ellsworth Coal GL design cars

Does anyone know where their fleet of 1000+ GL design cars mostly built by PSC in 1902 went? They don't appear to have gone to the coal company successors.

Thanks,
Eric

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Eric;

Have you looked into whether or not they were sold to the PRR? Many coal companies that bought PRR class clones did this when economic downturns necessitated sale of assets. PRR rostered many ex-coal company hoppers.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Eric Neubauer
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 1:19 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] J.W. Ellsworth Coal GL design cars



Does anyone know where their fleet of 1000+ GL design cars mostly built by PSC in 1902 went? They don't appear to have gone to the coal company successors.

Thanks,
Eric



Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE