Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER


Eric Hansmann
 

As a modeler focused on the mid-1920s, box and ventilator cars that are less than 40-foot length have garnered my attention as they are a significant portion of the US freight car fleet. I have noted the decline of these cars over the next two decades and the WW2 years seem to be the last major use for 36-foot box cars as a decent percentage of the box car fleet. The New York Central lines listed over 5000 short, double sheathed box cars, many of which sported inverted Murphy corrugated steel ends.

Assembled below you will find XM only recapitulation summary data of individual lines from the 1943 ORER. Quantities of 40-foot and 50-foot cars are included to offer perspective on the less than 40-foot car quantities. Quantities of VS, VA, XV, XA, XAB, and similar AAR designations were not included, but noted in a couple of examples.

NYC

50-foot, 6-inch - 500 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 42,391 cars

Less than 40-foot - 2894 cars

 

Boston & Albany

50-foot, 6-inch - 0 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 994 cars

Less than 40-foot - 1217 cars

 

Cleveland Cincinnati Chicago & St Louis

50-foot, 6-inch - 0 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 3293 cars

Less than 40-foot - 146 cars

 

Michigan Central

50-foot, 6-inch - 0 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 2211 cars

Less than 40-foot - 65 cars

Also listed 632 less than 40-foot cars designated as XAB

 

Pittsburgh & Lake Erie

50-foot, 6-inch - 100 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 2993 cars

Less than 40-foot - 888 cars

 

PMcK&Y

50-foot, 6-inch - 0 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 570 cars

Less than 40-foot - 303 cars

 

Here are the overall numbers for the NYC System

50-foot, 6-inch - 600 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 51,458 cars

Less than 40-foot - 5513 cars

Does not include the MC XAB shorties

 

And a few other railroads with significant numbers of less than 40-foot box cars listed in the 1943 ORER, as compared with the rest of their XM fleet.

Reading

50-foot, 6-inch - 0 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 3964 cars

Less than 40-foot - 3013 cars

 

Central RR of New Jersey

50-foot, 6-inch - 0 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 2328 cars

Less than 40-foot - 552 cars

 

Delaware Lackawanna & Western

50-foot, 6-inch - 0 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 5196 cars

Less than 40-foot - 1943 cars

 

Erie

50-foot, 6-inch - 0 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 7559 cars

Less than 40-foot - 2336 cars

 

Delaware & Hudson

50-foot, 6-inch - 0 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 689 cars

Less than 40-foot - 1811 cars

 

New Haven

50-foot, 6-inch - 0 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 1000 cars

Less than 40-foot - 7016 cars

 

Nickel Plate Road

50-foot, 6-inch - 0 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 5368 cars

Less than 40-foot - 1089 cars

 

Chesapeake & Ohio

50-foot, 6-inch - 0 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 8555 cars

Less than 40-foot - 1806 cars

 

Louisville & Nashville

50-foot, 6-inch - 300 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 5641 cars

Less than 40-foot - 7753 cars

Also lists 2096 ventilator cars of 36-foot length

 

Southern

50-foot, 6-inch - 0 cars

40-foot to 40-foot, 7-inch - 11,348 cars

Less than 40-foot - 13678 cars

 

Outside of the ACL and SAL ventilator car fleets, these are probably the majority of the US railroads with a decent proportion of less than 40-foot XM box cars listed in the 1943 ORER. I did this quickly, so I’m probably missing a plum or two. 


I chose to focus on US railroads for this information, so the list does not include several thousand Canadian National and Canadian Pacific Fowler/Dominion design box cars that were less than 40-foot in length.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX


Bill Welch
 

Just a footnote to Eric's very fine post. Note that the L&N was one of the few roads noted w/fifty-foot cars. One hundred of these were single sheathed door and half furniture cars w/SS ends. AFAIK these were the only cars of 50-ft composite construction in the US owned by a RR east of the Mississippi River. A picture is in the Kline-Culotta NMRA book.
Bill Welch


Benjamin Hom
 

Bill Welch wrote:
"Just a footnote to Eric's very fine post. Note that the L&N was one of the few roads noted w/fifty-foot cars. One hundred of these were single sheathed door and half furniture cars w/SS ends. AFAIK these were the only cars of 50-ft composite construction in the US owned by a RR east of the Mississippi River. A picture is in the Kline-Culotta NMRA book."

Bill, gotta watch those absolutes - they'll get you every time:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=x38b.gif&fr=cl
PRR 119991, Class X38B, one-of-a-kind SS boxcar built in 1942. Of note, this car originally had a wood roof that was later replaced by a rectangular panel steel roof.  Car appeared through the January 1959 ORER; it was no longer listed as of the January 1960 ORER.

You'll find the single-door MDC 50 SS boxcar painted in this scheme - the only thing that this prototype has in common with the model is that they're both 50 ft SS boxcars.  It's not an accurate model by any stretch of the imagination.


Ben Hom


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 14, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Bill Welch wrote:
"Just a footnote to Eric's very fine post. Note that the L&N was one of the few roads noted w/fifty-foot cars. One hundred of these were single sheathed door and half furniture cars w/SS ends. AFAIK these were the only cars of 50-ft composite construction in the US owned by a RR east of the Mississippi River. A picture is in the Kline-Culotta NMRA book."

Bill, gotta watch those absolutes - they'll get you every time:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=x38b.gif&fr=cl
PRR 119991, Class X38B, one-of-a-kind SS boxcar built in 1942. Of note, this car originally had a wood roof that was later replaced by a rectangular panel steel roof.  Car appeared through the January 1959 ORER; it was no longer listed as of the January 1960 ORER.

Ben, you’re right, of course, but only one car?  Seems to me that only barely qualifies as an exception.

More to the point, the Akron, Canton & Youngstown acquired a couple of hundred ex-Frisco 50’ single-sheathed ca. 1958, which is late in the time span covered by this list but still barely qualifies as “steam era.”  However, for the late ‘40s-early ‘50s period Bill and I (and many others on this llist) are modeling, his observation is essentially correct to the best of my knowledge.

Richard Hendrickson



Benjamin Hom
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
"Ben, you’re right, of course, but only one car?  Seems to me that only barely qualifies as an exception.

More to the point, the Akron, Canton & Youngstown acquired a couple of hundred ex-Frisco 50 single-sheathed ca. 1958, which is late in the time span covered by this list but still barely qualifies as “steam era. However, for the late ‘40s-early ‘50s period Bill and I (and many others on this list) are modeling, his observation is essentially correct to the best of my knowledge."

Honestly, it was too easy to take shots at an absolute statement.  No argument here that we're stretching to find exceptions - the only other one I can think of is the 1938-41 NYC lease of ATSF Class Fe-S double-sheathed automobile boxcars, and that's stretching the definition to include both steel underframe and the fact that NYC borrowed them from somebody else.


Ben Hom


Ray Breyer
 

?????
 
Chicago, Burlington and Quincy were all cities in Illinois. The Q had 983 50' long single sheathed cars in 1950. 
 
Based on my car counts, other 50-foot plus single sheathed cars east of the Mississippi included the IC, Milwaukee, Rock Island, and that single Pennsy car.
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

From: "fgexbill@..."
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 2:29 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER



Just a footnote to Eric's very fine post. Note that the L&N was one of the few roads noted w/fifty-foot cars. One hundred of these were single sheathed door and half furniture cars w/SS ends. AFAIK these were the only cars of 50-ft composite construction in the US owned by a RR east of the Mississippi River. A picture is in the Kline-Culotta NMRA book.
Bill Welch





Alexander Schneider Jr
 

Although there is a Burlington IL, doesn't the railroad name refer to Burlington Iowa?

Alex Schneider

From: Ray Breyer
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER



?????
 
Chicago, Burlington and Quincy were all cities in Illinois. The Q had 983 50' long single sheathed cars in 1950. 
 
Based on my car counts, other 50-foot plus single sheathed cars east of the Mississippi included the IC, Milwaukee, Rock Island, and that single Pennsy car.
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

From: "fgexbill@..."
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 2:29 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER



Just a footnote to Eric's very fine post. Note that the L&N was one of the few roads noted w/fifty-foot cars. One hundred of these were single sheathed door and half furniture cars w/SS ends. AFAIK these were the only cars of 50-ft composite construction in the US owned by a RR east of the Mississippi River. A picture is in the Kline-Culotta NMRA book.
Bill Welch









Douglas Harding
 

Ray, last I checked (was there about a week ago) Burlington (as in the CB&Q) was still on the Iowa side of the Mississippi. Though there is a Burlington IL in the outer suburbs of Chicago. The Q did run east of the Mississippi

 

The M&StL got rid of most of their less than 40’ boxcars prior to 1938, but they did have one series that lasted till 1944. 26000 to 26418 (210 cars) purchased used in 1938, they were ex-W&LE/NKP 36' steel ctrsill w/truss.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Rupert & Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Alex

The very short and abbreviated history is that the first “CB&Q” was the Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Railroad Company formed in 1855 from the Aurora Branch and the Chicago & Aurora railroads, and referred to East Burlington in Illinois. (Later three other companies with variation of the name) The Burlington & Missouri River RR (in Iowa) was in operation from 1857 but it wasn’t until 1872 that the CB&Q leased all the company’s operations including those at Burlington on the west bank.

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Alex Schneider
Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2014 8:47 a.m.
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER

 

Although there is a Burlington IL, doesn't the railroad name refer to Burlington Iowa?

 

Alex Schneider

 

From: Ray Breyer
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER

 

????

 

Chicago, Burlington and Quincy were all cities in Illinois. The Q had 983 50' long single sheathed cars in 1950. 

 

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Bill Welch
 

Obviously I am challenged by geography, although I did not realize to what extent. I was going from my memory of articles by Richard several years ago covering SS 50-foot cars where he said--I am paraphrasing here--that the type was owned by Western railroads. I should have used that phrase rather than east of the MR. Still there is the pesky IC. Oh well.
Bill Welch


Ray Breyer
 

Ray, last I checked (was there about a week ago) Burlington (as in the CB&Q)
was still on the Iowa side of the Mississippi. Though there is a Burlington
IL in the outer suburbs of Chicago. The Q did run east of the Mississippi

Oops; dur me. And to think that I live five miles away from the IL side Burlington too! (which is along the IC's Iowa Division).



The M&StL got rid of most of their less than 40’ boxcars prior to 1938, but
they did have one series that lasted till 1944. 26000 to 26418 (210 cars)
purchased used in 1938, they were ex-W&LE/NKP 36' steel ctrsill w/truss.
 Doug Harding

Actually, I worked with Gene Green a few years ago properly identifying those cars. They weren't Wheeling cars at all, but ex-NKP 25000-29299 series boxcars.

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Douglas Harding
 

Thanks for the correction Ray. I was quoting from Gene’s notes on M&StL freight cars.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Eric Hansmann
 

I took a moment to review and compile the CN and CP 1943 ORER details. The listing does not include a nice and neat recapitulation listing, so here’s a rough count of only those box cars (XM) that are less than 40-foot interior length.

 

CN – 25,998

CP – 35,360

 

And here’s a little bit of perspective on these box car numbers. The 1943 total of the CN & CP less than 40-foot box cars was more than all of the DS & SS USRA box cars built and assigned in 1919 (49,500).

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 


John Barry
 

Eric,

Which 43 edition got re-printed?  I've only seen the NMRA 53 reprint and am fortunate to have one of the 43 originals, but it is in storage.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682



From: "eric@..."
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER

 
I took a moment to review and compile the CN and CP 1943 ORER details. The listing does not include a nice and neat recapitulation listing, so here’s a rough count of only those box cars (XM) that are less than 40-foot interior length.
 
CN – 25,998
CP – 35,360
 
And here’s a little bit of perspective on these box car numbers. The 1943 total of the CN & CP less than 40-foot box cars was more than all of the DS & SS USRA box cars built and assigned in 1919 (49,500).
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
 
 



cinderandeight@...
 

The Michigan Central leased (I think) former 50' composite box cars from the UP beginning in 1937 (151001-152000).  Starting with 100 cars and increasing to 200 cars in 1938.  They lasted on the railroad until 1942.  The cars had been converted to all steel by the UP at some earlier date, maybe Richard can shed some light on them?
    Rich Burg


devansprr
 

For WWII, there is still the issue of just how many of the Canadian cars reached how far south into the US. Clearly Ike has spotted one very far south, but in the few WWII yard photos I have found, I do not recall seeing a sub 40 foot Canadian car, although I am not skilled enough to spot them by car body - I need to see the herald or reporting marks.

I have spotted a number of other US sub-40's in those photos (L&N and Southern being the most common), and since the US sub-40 fleet was only about 15-20% larger than the Canadian sub-40 fleet, statistically (recognizing a pretty small sample set - although a lot of the yard photo's are Delano's from the upper midwest) this would indicate that they were not as common south of the border as one would expect if there were no car service rules requiring Canadian cars to migrate back to Canada as soon as possible??

Thoughts? Am I missing something? I am not the expert.... But I am wondering how many CN and CP cars should be in a WWII fleet for a US railroad.
F&C has recently been a big help with some of their new single piece body sub-40 US box car kits. For WWII, a fleet needs many of these cars - and flat kits take considerably longer to assemble.

Dave Evans


---In STMFC@..., <eric@...> wrote :

I took a moment to review and compile the CN and CP 1943 ORER details. The listing does not include a nice and neat recapitulation listing, so here’s a rough count of only those box cars (XM) that are less than 40-foot interior length.

 

CN – 25,998

CP – 35,360

 

And here’s a little bit of perspective on these box car numbers. The 1943 total of the CN & CP less than 40-foot box cars was more than all of the DS & SS USRA box cars built and assigned in 1919 (49,500).

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 


devansprr
 

John,

January 1943, Vol. LVIII, No. 3 NMRA reproduced it because it reflects the end of depression era scrapping, and the start of WWII car building - it also includes passenger cars, and Gene Green in the Introduction indicates it was one of the last ORER's with freight and passenger cars in the same volume.

Dave Evans

---In STMFC@..., <northbaylines@...> wrote :

Eric,
Which 43 edition got re-printed?  I've only seen the NMRA 53 reprint and am fortunate to have one of the 43 originals, but it is in storage.
John Barry


Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


My 1-43 ORER (original) does not appear to include passenger cars, at least for most of the listings. I thought these were elimnated in about 1941..
 

John,

January 1943, Vol. LVIII, No. 3 NMRA reproduced it because it reflects the end of depression era scrapping, and the start of WWII car building - it also includes passenger cars, and Gene Green in the Introduction indicates it was one of the last ORER's with freight and passenger cars in the same volume.

Dave Evans

---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Eric,
Which 43 edition got re-printed?  I've only seen the NMRA 53 reprint and am fortunate to have one of the 43 originals, but it is in storage.
John Barry


John Barry
 

Dave,

I can now say that it was the Last one with Passenger Car info, at least on a large scale as I found the date from mine in a spreadsheet and it is April of 43, which would be the first without the Passenger info.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682



From: "devans1@..."
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Less than 40-foot box car data from 1943 ORER

 
John,

January 1943, Vol. LVIII, No. 3 NMRA reproduced it because it reflects the end of depression era scrapping, and the start of WWII car building - it also includes passenger cars, and Gene Green in the Introduction indicates it was one of the last ORER's with freight and passenger cars in the same volume.

Dave Evans

---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Eric,
Which 43 edition got re-printed?  I've only seen the NMRA 53 reprint and am fortunate to have one of the 43 originals, but it is in storage.
John Barry




Eric Hansmann
 

The NMRA reprinted the 1943 ORER as well. That's the one I've been reviewing.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX