Pennsy N6B Wood Caboose color


Paul Hillman
 

What color were the Pennsy N6B Wood Cabooses painted? I have some Walthers N6B's and need to weather them. They're a redish-dark brown, maybe Tuscan red? Just want to get a weathered-color more "correct".

Thanks, Paul Hillman


Brad Andonian
 

I just painted mine with Trucolor paint

PRR frt car brown #209

Thanks,
Brad Andonian

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 11:57 AM, "chris_hillman@..." wrote:
 
What color were the Pennsy N6B Wood Cabooses painted? I have some Walthers N6B's and need to weather them. They're a redish-dark brown, maybe Tuscan red? Just want to get a weathered-color more "correct".
Thanks, Paul Hillman



naptownprr
 

Chris,

It depends on what time period you are modeling. When those cars were first built, they were probably a much redder color than they were later on. By the late 1930s and the 1940s they were freight car color, including the roofs. After roughly 1950 or so, they were freight car color but with black roofs. Freight car color on the Pennsy is debated and often a matter of personal perception, but it was not Tuscan red. Tuscan red was used on passenger cars. FCC was redder in the twenties, became more like an orange iron-oxide in the 40s, and became browner through the 1950s.

I model 1951, and I paint all my cabin cars Scalecoat II iron oxide. The color that Walthers used is just a tad too brown for me, but might work for the early 60s, just before merger. Of course, the effects of the elements and the vagaries of photography all affect what we perceive in old photographs. Maybe a dilute spray of some light boxcar color would be good for weathering. Bragdon powders or chalk might also help.

Jim


Quoting chris_hillman@msn.com:

What color were the Pennsy N6B Wood Cabooses painted? I have some
Walthers N6B's and need to weather them. They're a redish-dark brown,
maybe Tuscan red? Just want to get a weathered-color more "correct".
Thanks, Paul Hillman


Bruce Smith
 

Paul,

What scheme are the cabin cars and what year do you model?  These matter!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] on behalf of chris_hillman@... [chris_hillman@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 1:57 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Pennsy N6B Wood Caboose color



What color were the Pennsy N6B Wood Cabooses painted? I have some Walthers N6B's and need to weather them. They're a redish-dark brown, maybe Tuscan red? Just want to get a weathered-color more "correct".

Thanks, Paul Hillman




Paul Hillman
 

The cars have a black roof and the repack date is 1953. I model 1950.
 
I'm curious about the original base-color hue, whether reddish or brownish. Weathering produces all kinds of different shades of the original color depending upon the length of time. (As we all know.)  I have a photo of 6 ATSF cabooses in a line and there's 6 different hues of fading, but they're al based on ATSF's (I believe) "Mineral Brown" color. (I'd assume.)
 
The latest issue of "Historic Rail" has a neat painting of the PRR on the cover, and the caboose, and hoppers, seem to be faded to a reddish-brown color. It's said to depict the PRR in 1948.
 
Paul Hillman
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 3:07 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Pennsy N6B Wood Caboose color

 

Paul,

What scheme are the cabin cars and what year do you model?  These matter!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] on behalf of chris_hillman@... [chris_hillman@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 1:57 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Pennsy N6B Wood Caboose color



What color were the Pennsy N6B Wood Cabooses painted? I have some Walthers N6B's and need to weather them. They're a redish-dark brown, maybe Tuscan red? Just want to get a weathered-color more "correct".

Thanks, Paul Hillman




Bruce Smith
 

Paul,

Thanks.  For 1953, the base color could be either the 1940s FCC or 1950s FCC, depending on when the cabin car was repainted completely.  The Walthers base color on this car is pretty close to the 1950's color.  The 1940's color would be more orange.  There are several recipes for these colors on Jerry Britton's site, Keystone Crossings (under Modeling - General). If you can get it, PolyScale Zinc Chromate is a good color to work with.  It will be slightly more red/orange than the Walthers color and will help fade the Walthers color and lettering. I use 50% zinc chromate, 50% special oxide red for my plastic cabins and a mix of 3 to 4 parts Scalecoat Illinois Central Orange to 1 part Oxide Red on my brass cabins for that 1940s color.

Here's hoping Walthers brings the N6B back and uses the center cupola body with the offset cupola roof to fix that annoying window issue.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] on behalf of Paul Hillman [chris_hillman@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 4:02 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Pennsy N6B Wood Caboose color



The cars have a black roof and the repack date is 1953. I model 1950.
 
I'm curious about the original base-color hue, whether reddish or brownish. Weathering produces all kinds of different shades of the original color depending upon the length of time. (As we all know.)  I have a photo of 6 ATSF cabooses in a line and there's 6 different hues of fading, but they're al based on ATSF's (I believe) "Mineral Brown" color. (I'd assume.)
 
The latest issue of "Historic Rail" has a neat painting of the PRR on the cover, and the caboose, and hoppers, seem to be faded to a reddish-brown color. It's said to depict the PRR in 1948.
 
Paul Hillman


Paul Hillman
 

Thanks Bruce, Sounds like you've got these Pennsy colors down to a deep perfection.
 
Paul Hillman
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 5:27 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Pennsy N6B Wood Caboose color

 

Paul,

Thanks.  For 1953, the base color could be either the 1940s FCC or 1950s FCC, depending on when the cabin car was repainted completely.  The Walthers base color on this car is pretty close to the 1950's color.  The 1940's color would be more orange.  There are several recipes for these colors on Jerry Britton's site, Keystone Crossings (under Modeling - General). If you can get it, PolyScale Zinc Chromate is a good color to work with.  It will be slightly more red/orange than the Walthers color and will help fade the Walthers color and lettering. I use 50% zinc chromate, 50% special oxide red for my plastic cabins and a mix of 3 to 4 parts Scalecoat Illinois Central Orange to 1 part Oxide Red on my brass cabins for that 1940s color.

Here's hoping Walthers brings the N6B back and uses the center cupola body with the offset cupola roof to fix that annoying window issue.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


naptownprr
 

But you can't be sure that an artist's rendering is the "real"color.

Jim


Quoting Paul Hillman <chris_hillman@msn.com>:

The cars have a black roof and the repack date is 1953. I model 1950.

I'm curious about the original base-color hue, whether reddish or
brownish. Weathering produces all kinds of different shades of the
original color depending upon the length of time. (As we all know.)
I have a photo of 6 ATSF cabooses in a line and there's 6 different
hues of fading, but they're al based on ATSF's (I believe) "Mineral
Brown" color. (I'd assume.)

The latest issue of "Historic Rail" has a neat painting of the PRR on
the cover, and the caboose, and hoppers, seem to be faded to a
reddish-brown color. It's said to depict the PRR in 1948.

Paul Hillman



----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce F. Smith<mailto:smithbf@auburn.edu>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 3:07 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Pennsy N6B Wood Caboose color




Paul,


What scheme are the cabin cars and what year do you model? These matter!


Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
[STMFC@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of
chris_hillman@msn.com<mailto:chris_hillman@msn.com>
[chris_hillman@msn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 1:57 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Pennsy N6B Wood Caboose color





What color were the Pennsy N6B Wood Cabooses painted? I have some
Walthers N6B's and need to weather them. They're a redish-dark brown,
maybe Tuscan red? Just want to get a weathered-color more "correct".

Thanks, Paul Hillman







Paul Hillman
 

Jim, No you can't, but Bruce Smith's, etc. description of the Pennsy FCC 1940 color being a more reddish/orange color seems to be a close rendition of the artist's.
 
I just think that it's a nice faded-color rendering and seems to follow the FCC 1940 description. Photos are color deceptive also.
 
Paul Hillman
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Pennsy N6B Wood Caboose color

 

But you can't be sure that an artist's rendering is the "real"color.

Jim

Quoting Paul Hillman <chris_hillman@...>:

> The cars have a black roof and the repack date is 1953. I model 1950.
>
> I'm curious about the original base-color hue, whether reddish or
> brownish. Weathering produces all kinds of different shades of the
> original color depending upon the length of time. (As we all know.)
> I have a photo of 6 ATSF cabooses in a line and there's 6 different
> hues of fading, but they're al based on ATSF's (I believe) "Mineral
> Brown" color. (I'd assume.)
>
> The latest issue of "Historic Rail" has a neat painting of the PRR on
> the cover, and the caboose, and hoppers, seem to be faded to a
> reddish-brown color. It's said to depict the PRR in 1948.
>
> Paul Hillman
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bruce F. Smith
> To: STMFC@...
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 3:07 PM
> Subject: RE: [STMFC] Pennsy N6B Wood Caboose color
>
>
>
>
> Paul,
>
>
> What scheme are the cabin cars and what year do you model? These matter!
>
>
> Regards
> Bruce Smith
> Auburn, AL
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: STMFC@...
> [STMFC@...] on behalf of
> chris_hillman@...> [chris_hillman@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 1:57 PM
> To: STMFC@...
> Subject: [STMFC] Pennsy N6B Wood Caboose color
>
>
>
>
>
> What color were the Pennsy N6B Wood Cabooses painted? I have some
> Walthers N6B's and need to weather them. They're a redish-dark brown,
> maybe Tuscan red? Just want to get a weathered-color more "correct".
>
> Thanks, Paul Hillman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


mrprksr <mrprksr@...>
 

I always get a kick out of these proto color discussions....I put 42 years as a conductor on PRR thru NS.....I've seen the cabin tracks at Enola, Pa and Meadows, NJ with many cabin cars on them....I started when crews had assigned cabins.....and you would be hard pressed to see 2 cabins in the exact same hue......Tuscan passenger cars were the same thing....I would attend a PRRT&HS annual meetings and here the "experts" say a car was the wrong color and then watch movies that night of trains going around horseshoe curve and any shade of tuscan you wanted was there,.....Enjoy the hobby....it's suppose to be fun....Don't take yourselves too seriously.....Lar


From: Paul Hillman
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Pennsy N6B Wood Caboose color

 
Jim, No you can't, but Bruce Smith's, etc. description of the Pennsy FCC 1940 color being a more reddish/orange color seems to be a close rendition of the artist's.
 
I just think that it's a nice faded-color rendering and seems to follow the FCC 1940 description. Photos are color deceptive also.
 
Paul Hillman
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Pennsy N6B Wood Caboose color

 
But you can't be sure that an artist's rendering is the "real"color.

Jim

Quoting Paul Hillman <chris_hillman@...>:

> The cars have a black roof and the repack date is 1953. I model 1950.
>
> I'm curious about the original base-color hue, whether reddish or
> brownish. Weathering produces all kinds of different shades of the
> original color depending upon the length of time. (As we all know.)
> I have a photo of 6 ATSF cabooses in a line and there's 6 different
> hues of fading, but they're al based on ATSF's (I believe) "Mineral
> Brown" color. (I'd assume.)
>
> The latest issue of "Historic Rail" has a neat painting of the PRR on
> the cover, and the caboose, and hoppers, seem to be faded to a
> reddish-brown color. It's said to depict the PRR in 1948.
>
> Paul Hillman
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bruce F. Smith> To: STMFC@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 3:07 PM
> Subject: RE: [STMFC] Pennsy N6B Wood Caboose color
>
>
>
>
> Paul,
>
>
> What scheme are the cabin cars and what year do you model? These matter!
>
>
> Regards
> Bruce Smith
> Auburn, AL
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: STMFC@...
> [STMFC@...] on behalf of
> chris_hillman@...
> [chris_hillman@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 1:57 PM
> To: STMFC@...
> Subject: [STMFC] Pennsy N6B Wood Caboose color
>
>
>
>
>
> What color were the Pennsy N6B Wood Cabooses painted? I have some
> Walthers N6B's and need to weather them. They're a redish-dark brown,
> maybe Tuscan red? Just want to get a weathered-color more "correct".
>
> Thanks, Paul Hillman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




Tony Thompson
 

Jim Hunter. wrote:

But you can't be sure that an artist's rendering is the "real"color.

       That depends. If the artist painted from life, I think you might think it was actually pretty good. In the case of the famous Grif Teller calendar paintings for PRR, we know he DID paint from life. I would not hesitate to match a freight car to a Teller painting. If, that is, I morphed into a SPF.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





naptownprr
 

Tony,

Even if the artist painted from life, he's still going to give us what he/she saw in a certain light, and with highlights, shadows, etc. Grif Teller was great, but, with all due respect, I would not rely on a painting as a conclusive guide. I would also look at lots of photos from different sources, and take into consideration lighting, type of film, etc. I would also consult people in the historical society associated with the railroad that owned the equipment in question.

In the end, I suppose, we modelers make our best guesses as to how something looked.

Jim



Quoting Tony Thompson <tony@signaturepress.com>:

Jim Hunter. wrote:
But you can't be sure that an artist's rendering is the "real"color.
That depends. If the artist painted from life, I think you
might think it was actually pretty good. In the case of the famous
Grif Teller calendar paintings for PRR, we know he DID paint from
life. I would not hesitate to match a freight car to a Teller
painting. If, that is, I morphed into a SPF.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history