Date
1 - 12 of 12
T&P 82161 40-foot Single Door boxcar
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Greg Martin
Guys,
I am looking for a bit of information on this series car T&P
82161. Certain things are obvious to me, rebuilt from a USRA clone in
12-1924 and when it was rebuilt it was rebuilt to and inside height of 10'-6"
and 10-panels sides. What I can not determine was when this series was rebuilt
and what type of roof was used as the door in the photo shown in the photo is a
post war improved light weight Youngstown Steel Door. My photo is a ¾
oblique showing the A End and I would love to have a photo of the B-end and the
running board appears to be steel but I can't ID the type. The 8-7-3 end are
simple to bash but I really want to know the other detail before I get too far
along. And help would be greatly appreciated.
TIA,
Greg Martin
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through
it. Norman Maclean |
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clipper841@att.net <clipper841@...>
greg:
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sorry to ease drop and maybe passing on, something you may have forgotten, martin lofton did a two part article in rmc, either in the late 70's or early 80's, that listed every rr, plus deviation that occured in the various rebuilds, plus the resales of these cars, that were purchased 2nd or 3rd hand by others mel perry On May 18, 2014, at 1:58 PM, tgregmrtn@... [STMFC] wrote:
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Greg Martin
Mel,
I have the first part of an article that Martin wrote in RMC in
September of 1989 that did explain the rebuilding of the USRA double sheathed
cars. Part two which I have yet to dig out of my collection of RMC (providing I
have it) was modeling the cars. In part one of this series he did touch on many
roads that did and did not rebuilt the Double sheathed cars as well as some
clones but this car is not in this issue. Perhaps more came to light later
on. It mentions the MP cars that were in service in 1948 but doesn't
mention the T&P cars and shows that the MP did not rebuild their DS USRA
cars by 1948. I have photos of rebuilt T&P cars with 10' IH and they have a
different end and a radial roof. This series of cars has piqued my interest as
they appear similar to the KCS car sans the 4-3-R end on the KCS cars.
Greg Martin
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through
it. Norman Maclean In a message dated 5/18/2014 2:08:27 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
STMFC@... writes:
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clipper841@att.net <clipper841@...>
greg:
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yep, that's the one, for some reason, i keep remembering the ri cars were resold, and i can't remember if the tp, was one of the repurchasers, sorry for the dry run mel perry On May 18, 2014, at 2:53 PM, tgregmrtn@... [STMFC] wrote:
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WILLIAM PARDIE
Greg: I also had out the September 1989 R USRA rebuilt boxcars. The T&P cars are not referred to in this article. The article does however have a photo of the Santa Fe BX-31 (10' inside height) and BX-33 (10'6" IH cars. I believe that part 2 covered modeling these cafrs. I have to find it now that I have yur ends. Bill Pardie May 18, 2014, at 10:58 AM, tgregmrtn@... [STMFC] wrote:
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Benjamin Hom
Greg Martin asked:
"I am looking for a bit of information on this series car T&P 82161. Certain things are obvious to me, rebuilt from a USRA clone in 12-1924..." Disagree that the car was REBUILT in 12-1924 - that's the original built date! I'll bet that the source car was the 60000-series DS automobile boxcars modeled by Westerfield 2001. https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=19 "...and when it was rebuilt it was rebuilt to and inside height of 10'-6" and 10-panels sides. What I can not determine was when this series was rebuilt and what type of roof was used as the door in the photo shown in the photo is a post war improved light weight Youngstown Steel Door. My photo is a ¾ oblique showing the A End and I would love to have a photo of the B-end and the running board appears to be steel but I can't ID the type. The 8-7-3 end are simple to bash but I really want to know the other detail before I get too far along. And help would be greatly appreciated." We do know that T&P took its time rebuilding these cars, with the first batch in 1935, and others following WWII. Westerfield 2052 models the first batch with 8-panel sides; Sunshine also did the prewar rebuilds plus the 81000-series postwar rebuilds. http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun64j.pdf From your description of T&P 82161, it sounds like a later rebuild than the 81000-series. Apologies for more speculation than hard facts, but hopefully provides some context. Ben Hom |
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Benjamin Hom
Mel Perry wrote:
"...for some reason, I keep remembering the RI cars were resold, and I can't remember if [it was] the T&P, was one of the repurchasers, sorry for the dry run." The RI rebuilt boxcar story is a bit confusing. Not all of their USRA DS cars were rebuilt, with some running out their service life as DS cars. Some of their steel rebuilds were sold to an equipment leasing company where they ended up on roads including the FtDDM&S (but NOT the T&P); in turn, the RI leased some ex-CMO rebuilds. http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun64g.pdf Ben Hom |
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Ed Hawkins
On May 18, 2014, at 3:58 PM, tgregmrtn@... [STMFC] wrote:
I am looking for a bit of information on this series car T&P 82161.Greg, The steel rebuilds in series T&P 82000-82786 received "S.R.E.M. Co. Diagonal Panel" roofs according to the T&P diagram. All rebuilt cars also received Apex running boards & brake steps. Hand brakes were Ajax & Universal, however, the diagram doesn't specify how many of each or any car number assignments of the two types. In-service photos are pretty scarce. The photo of 82161 shows the "A" end. T&P 82450 rebuilt 7-52 had an Ajax hand brake. The cars were originally double-sheathed auto cars built by ACF in late 1924 to early 1925 (T&P 50000-50999). From 1950 to 1953 T&P's shops at Marshall, Texas, rebuilt 787 cars as all-steel and 10'-6" inside height. Sunshine Models offered a very nice kit (#9.1) of this steel rebuild. More than 20 years ago I built the model. A number of years later I discovered the error that the roof should have been diagonal panel instead of the Murphy panel-type roof that came in the kit. I subsequently removed the Murphy panel roof and replaced it with a Branchline diagonal panel roof, which fit perfectly. An article about these T&P box cars and all of T&P's earlier steel rebuilds was published by the MPHS in "The Eagle" (Fall 2004, Volume 29, no. 3). I believe the issue is available from the MPHS Company Store. Regards, Ed Hawkins |
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Benjamin Hom
I wrote:
"I'll bet that the source car [for T&P 82161] was the 60000-series DS automobile boxcars modeled by Westerfield 2001. https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=19 From your description of T&P 82161, it sounds like a later rebuild than the 81000-series." Did some more investigating and discovered that the source cars weren't the 60000-series DS automobile boxcars, but the 50000-series boxcars modeled by Sunshine 52.13-52.14: http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun52c.pdf The rebuilding started in 1952, which puts the 82000-series chronologically after the other two groups of rebuilds. Ben Hom |
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Benjamin Hom
Ed Hawkins wrote:
"Sunshine Models offered a very nice kit (#9.1) of this steel rebuild. More than 20 years ago I built the model. A number of years later I discovered the error that the roof should have been diagonal panel instead of the Murphy panel-type roof that came in the kit. I subsequently removed the Murphy panel roof and replaced it with a Branchline diagonal panel roof, which fit perfectly." Here's a link to the Sunshine flyer (which I blew right past - the dangers of trying to reply to posts and make dinner at the same time): http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun09a.pdf Ben Hom |
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Benjamin Scanlon
Hi
It seemed weird to me that the T&P rebuilds were not included in the excellent RMC 1989 article. I assume this is one:
Rolling Stock - 82153 Boxcar | The Texas & Pacific Railway - Railfans Depot
Thank you for the information on the roof. A diagonal roof is coming along in TT so another possible scratchbuild.
Regards
Ben Scanlon Tottenham Hale, England
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Greg Martin
Ed,
As always you insight and help is greatly appreciated. You make my bash
plausible. I just wonder why at this point in time that they would
elect to keep the original ends as other roads that continued to rebuild
during this period elected to buy and replace the original ends. I just
think it is the frugal attitude of "don't fix what ain't broke..."
My enthusiasm for Rebuilt USRA car both Single and Double Sheathed at times
dominates my modeling. I love the evolution of freight cars
particularly boxcars. Watching such a conservative group prevail in ingenious
ways, but every so subtlety small changes at a time like baby steps.
Greg Martin
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through
it. Norman Maclean In a message dated 5/18/2014 3:31:09 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
STMFC@... writes:
Greg, |
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