X29 ends - PMM


Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
 

So... Prior to this 1978 article (in the 8th issue of PMM);
How many 18-page write-ups of a single prototype class had been published... anywhere?

--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------

At 06:43 PM 6/3/2014, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:
---In STMFC@..., <b.hom@...> wrote :

"Finally, there an article that started it all - Jack Amerine's article in the October 1978 issue of Prototype Modeler:"
<http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/778/50802/october-1978-page-6>http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/778/50802/october-1978-page-6

Me too!
That article corrupted me for life :-(


Benjamin Hom
 

Richard Brennan asked:
"So... Prior to this 1978 article (in the 8th issue of PMM);
How many 18-page write-ups of a single prototype class had been
published... anywhere?"
 
Not of a single class, but James Lane's article on the USRA designs appeared in R&LHS Number 128 in 1973.  This article is still the baseline of what we know about these cars, and has been reprinted with additional material in early issues of Mainline Modeler.  (The additional material is a mixed bag - the photos are valuable, but the lettering diagrams of the SS and DS boxcars are of dubious quality, with several glaring errors that unsupecting manufacturers copied.)
 
As for the X29, a 12-page article by Gary Rausch and Bob Johnson predated the Amerine article in the December 1976 issue of The Keystone.
 
 
Ben Hom


Dennis Storzek
 

None, not that I can think of, ever. Which is why that article was such an eye opener... before that, everyone just sort of assumed that this sort of in depth information was simply unobtainable, I know I did. This article proved that wrong, in spades.

Dennis


Bill Welch
 

Dennis, did this article in turn inspire your article a few years later: "Five Changes..." about the changes a modeler could make to a Athearn 40-ft steel boxcar to make it more prototypical in appearance?

Sorry I do not remember the full name of the article, which I think was about 1982.

Bill Welch


Dan Sweeney Jr
 

Bill, good memory!  Dennis's article would be in RMC April 1982, a classic that I still frequently consult while chopping away at 17 blue-box and yellow-box Athearn 40-footers.  (Am too cheap to give up on 'em.)
Thank you, thank you, Dennis--32 years ago and still invaluable.
Dan Sweeney, Jr.
Alexandria, VA


Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <fgexbill@...> wrote :

"Dennis, did this article in turn inspire your article a few years later: "Five Changes..." about the changes a modeler could make to a Athearn 40-ft steel boxcar to make it more prototypical in appearance?

Sorry I do not remember the full name of the article, which I think was about 1982."

If I remember correctly, it was "Five Boxcar Improvements", but it's been a long time....

I think its influence, on me, anyway, was making me look differently at freight cars, as individual models rather than "train filler". Of course, that sort of thing was already being done quite well for steam models, but hey, I didn't have Bill Schopp's budget to buy three brass Big Boys and chop them into a dozen Docksiders :-)

Here dawned the understanding that the background behind the $5 Train Miniature kit could be just as interesting. Looking critically at what was available led to wanting to improve the compromises that were built into all the models that were available at the time, and that led to my article.

It also led to wanting to produce multiples of some models that I wanted, because once one understands that there are differences, they are hard to ignore. Resin technology allowed much more time to be put into patterns than could be justified in a single model, so I went down that path for a while.

Dennis Storzek


Scott H. Haycock
 

Yes, the name of the article was "Five Boxcar Improvements", and it appeared in the April, 1982 issue of RMC. 



Scott Haycock


 




---In STMFC@..., wrote :

"Dennis, did this article in turn inspire your article a few years later: "Five Changes..." about the changes a modeler could make to a Athearn 40-ft steel boxcar to make it more prototypical in appearance?

Sorry I do not remember the full name of the article, which I think was about 1982."

If I remember correctly, it was "Five Boxcar Improvements", but it's been a long time....

I think its influence, on me, anyway, was making me look differently at freight cars, as individual models rather than "train filler". Of course, that sort of thing was already being done quite well for steam models, but hey, I didn't have Bill Schopp's budget to buy three brass Big Boys and chop them into a dozen Docksiders :-)

Here dawned the understanding that the background behind the $5 Train Miniature kit could be just as interesting. Looking critically at what was available led to wanting to improve the compromises that were built into all the models that were available at the time, and that led to my article.

It also led to wanting to produce multiples of some models that I wanted, because once one understands that there are differences, they are hard to ignore. Resin technology allowed much more time to be put into patterns than could be justified in a single model, so I went down that path for a while.

Dennis Storzek




Robert kirkham
 

I find the emergence of interest in prototype freight cars in the model railroading hobby interesting.  I came to the topic much later than many here, but can retrace the developing interest through certain key articles. 
 
I think the interesting bit to me is that I had not heard of James Lane’s articles, nor those of  Gary Rausch and Bob Johnson or Amerine until this discussion in this list.    Each of those was published in a journal that was unknown to me back in the 1970s.  I spent a few years there colleting back issue of MR and RMC, but that still didn’t give me awareness of other periodicals.  In fact, I’m not sure when I first became aware of historical societies with publications – but it would have been in the 1980s. 
 
It makes me think just how much easier it is to discovery these things today.  
 
Rob Kirkham


Armand Premo
 


I don't believe that John Nehrich and the RPI group get nearly enough credit for the ,"Great Awakening".Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM

 

I find the emergence of interest in prototype freight cars in the model railroading hobby interesting.  I came to the topic much later than many here, but can retrace the developing interest through certain key articles. 
 
I think the interesting bit to me is that I had not heard of James Lane’s articles, nor those of  Gary Rausch and Bob Johnson or Amerine until this discussion in this list.    Each of those was published in a journal that was unknown to me back in the 1970s.  I spent a few years there colleting back issue of MR and RMC, but that still didn’t give me awareness of other periodicals.  In fact, I’m not sure when I first became aware of historical societies with publications – but it would have been in the 1980s. 
 
It makes me think just how much easier it is to discovery these things today.  
 
Rob Kirkham

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/7622 - Release Date: 06/04/14


 

For me the seminal modeling projects were Gibb Kennedy’s Kettle Valley passenger cars and John Chapp’s B&LE Pressed Steel hopper. – Al Westerfield
 

Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:30 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM
 
 



I don't believe that John Nehrich and the RPI group get nearly enough credit for the ,"Great Awakening".Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM
 
 

I find the emergence of interest in prototype freight cars in the model railroading hobby interesting.  I came to the topic much later than many here, but can retrace the developing interest through certain key articles. 
 
I think the interesting bit to me is that I had not heard of James Lane’s articles, nor those of  Gary Rausch and Bob Johnson or Amerine until this discussion in this list.    Each of those was published in a journal that was unknown to me back in the 1970s.  I spent a few years there colleting back issue of MR and RMC, but that still didn’t give me awareness of other periodicals.  In fact, I’m not sure when I first became aware of historical societies with publications – but it would have been in the 1980s. 
 
It makes me think just how much easier it is to discovery these things today.  
 
Rob Kirkham

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/7622 - Release Date: 06/04/14


Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 


Hi List Members,
 
For me, it was the multi-installment series on PRR hoppers done by John Teichmoeller in, I believe, RMJ. I never knew such a quantity of information of cars could be amassed!
 
  -  Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM

For me the seminal modeling projects were Gibb Kennedy’s Kettle Valley passenger cars and John Chapp’s B&LE Pressed Steel hopper. – Al Westerfield
 
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:30 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM
 
 



I don't believe that John Nehrich and the RPI group get nearly enough credit for the ,"Great Awakening".Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM
 
 

I find the emergence of interest in prototype freight cars in the model railroading hobby interesting.  I came to the topic much later than many here, but can retrace the developing interest through certain key articles. 
 
I think the interesting bit to me is that I had not heard of James Lane’s articles, nor those of  Gary Rausch and Bob Johnson or Amerine until this discussion in this list.    Each of those was published in a journal that was unknown to me back in the 1970s.  I spent a few years there colleting back issue of MR and RMC, but that still didn’t give me awareness of other periodicals.  In fact, I’m not sure when I first became aware of historical societies with publications – but it would have been in the 1980s. 
 
It makes me think just how much easier it is to discovery these things today.  
 
Rob Kirkham

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/7622 - Release Date: 06/04/14


Greg Martin
 

Claus,
 
It was actually Model Railroading. It was a great mix of the prototype and modeling "how to". A brilliant piece of work.
 
For me it start with two modelers, Mont Switzer and Richard Hendrickson and their articles in Prototype Modeler. I was on both the research and the modeling.
 
 
Greg Martin
 
 
Claus writes:

  
Hi List Members,
 
For me, it was the multi-installment series on PRR hoppers done by John Teichmoeller in, I believe, RMJ. I never knew such a quantity of information of cars could be amassed!
 
  -  Claus Schlund
 
 


Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 


Hi Greg,
 
Of course, those articles were published in 'DING! Thanks for the correction.
 
  -  Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM

Claus,
 
It was actually Model Railroading. It was a great mix of the prototype and modeling "how to". A brilliant piece of work.
 
For me it start with two modelers, Mont Switzer and Richard Hendrickson and their articles in Prototype Modeler. I was on both the research and the modeling.
 
 
Greg Martin
 
 
Claus writes:
  
Hi List Members,
 
For me, it was the multi-installment series on PRR hoppers done by John Teichmoeller in, I believe, RMJ. I never knew such a quantity of information of cars could be amassed!
 
  -  Claus Schlund
 
 


Benjamin Hom
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:
"I think the interesting bit to me is that I had not heard of James Lane’s articles, nor those of Gary Rausch and Bob Johnson or Amerine until this discussion in this list. Each of those was published in a journal that was unknown to me back in the 1970s. I spent a few years there colleting back issue of MR and RMC, but that still didn’t give me awareness of other periodicals. In fact, I’m not sure when I first became aware of historical societies with publications – but it would have been in the 1980s.
 
It makes me think just how much easier it is to discover these things today."
 
This illustrates how difficult it was at first for prototype modeling to get traction - the major magazines at the time wouldn't touch this stuff during this era of "Olde Frothingslosh", so it fell to alternate venues to break the ice - minor magazines such as Protoype Modeler and its predecessors (e.g., Western Prototype Modeler, Santa Fe Modeler), historical society publications, and in the case of one extensive Jack Amerine treatise on the AAR boxcar design, a photocopied journal called something to the effect of "Modeler and Gaming History.  Credit definitely is due to the editorial staff at Railroad Model Craftsman in the mid-1970s, who took a chance with material such as Dennis Storzek's boxcar improvement article, the early NEB&W articles, and the Protofile series on modeling specific cars and locomotives.  This did a lot to give this thing called prototype modeling mainstream exposure.
 
 
Ben Hom


genegreen1942@...
 

Were the original Red Caboose X29 dies altered to add the patch panels?
Will the original Red Caboose X29s without patch panels ever be available again?
Gene Green


Benjamin Hom
 

Gene Green asked:
"Were the original Red Caboose X29 dies altered to add the patch panels?"
Yes.


"Will the original Red Caboose X29s without patch panels ever be available again?"
Barring new tooling, probably not, but there are still plenty of the older models on the market.



Ben Hom


Aley, Jeff A
 

I find this surprising, as the cars currently in production by Intermountain (RTR) do not appear to have patch panels (based on photos on their website).  But perhaps these were molded long ago, and are only now being assembled and painted.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2014 8:45 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM

 

 

Gene Green asked:
"Were the original Red Caboose X29 dies altered to add the patch panels?"
Yes.

"Will the original Red Caboose X29s without patch panels ever be available again?"
Barring new tooling, probably not, but there are still plenty of the older models on the market.

Ben Hom


Benjamin Hom
 

Jeff Aley wrote:
"I find this surprising, as the cars currently in production by Intermountain (RTR) do not appear to have patch panels (based on photos on their website).  But perhaps these were molded long ago, and are only now being assembled and painted."

http://www.intermountain-railway.com/distrib/redcaboose/redcabooseho.html
The tooling change information was based on a posting on either STMFC, PRR-Modeling, or the B&O list when the patch panel models first came out.  If this is not the case, I'm happy to be wrong!

I'm a bit disappointed with what's being offered, though, especially if you're going to shell out $34.95 MSRP.  They're using tooling without patch panels for these models, which limits their utility to transition-era modelers, as most cars needed to have side sill repairs by the 1950s.  They continue to exhibit the incorrect AB brake arrangement noted in an earlier post.  The trucks shown (Accurail "Bettendorf") are incorrect for the PRR cars, which is inexplicable as the original Red Caboose models had the correct trucks. Finally, I'd check my research before buying - there's no indication that Intermountain matched the right bodies (1924 PRR, 1928 PRR, ARA) to the roads offered; some of these prototypes had different roofs (CNJ, MEC green, LNE black); Duryea cushion underframes (B&O), and two are outright bogus (SAL, N&W).  Caevat emptor.


Ben Hom


O Fenton Wells
 

Gentlemen, FYI , I just received a letter from Red Caboose and the RC-7001 ' 28 body, X-29 with dreadnaught ends and their RC-7002 X-29 '24 body with plate ends are "in stock"
Fenton Wells


On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Jeff Aley wrote:
"I find this surprising, as the cars currently in production by Intermountain (RTR) do not appear to have patch panels (based on photos on their website).  But perhaps these were molded long ago, and are only now being assembled and painted."

http://www.intermountain-railway.com/distrib/redcaboose/redcabooseho.html
The tooling change information was based on a posting on either STMFC, PRR-Modeling, or the B&O list when the patch panel models first came out.  If this is not the case, I'm happy to be wrong!

I'm a bit disappointed with what's being offered, though, especially if you're going to shell out $34.95 MSRP.  They're using tooling without patch panels for these models, which limits their utility to transition-era modelers, as most cars needed to have side sill repairs by the 1950s.  They continue to exhibit the incorrect AB brake arrangement noted in an earlier post.  The trucks shown (Accurail "Bettendorf") are incorrect for the PRR cars, which is inexplicable as the original Red Caboose models had the correct trucks. Finally, I'd check my research before buying - there's no indication that Intermountain matched the right bodies (1924 PRR, 1928 PRR, ARA) to the roads offered; some of these prototypes had different roofs (CNJ, MEC green, LNE black); Duryea cushion underframes (B&O), and two are outright bogus (SAL, N&W).  Caevat emptor.

Ben Hom 




--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Benjamin Hom
 

Fenton Wells wrote:
"Gentlemen, FYI , I just received a letter from Red Caboose and the RC-7001 ' 28 body, X-29 with dreadnaught ends and their RC-7002 X-29 '24 body with plate ends are 'in stock'"


First, NO DASHES IN PRR CAR CLASSES!

Second, with or without patch panels?


Ben Hom