A day late and a dollar short


John Barry
 

Working on something else, I came across a picture of a Linde Box Tank  http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/9/2/926272/55d377d1-88c4-4a63-8249-8c94b9f8d466-A28817.jpg and was thinking of how to model what looked like a modified 1932 AAR car with strengthened underframe.  I was going to ask the advice of the group, but decided to check the archives first.  Neo is a bit frustrating, as I never did see the Linde posts that were part of the "Most needed car thread."  But Lester Breuer's request for truck help led me to most of my answers.  It listed both a kit, Sunshine 95.2, and a reference, RPC 14.  I happen to have the latter for the MP rebuilds, I should read the rest of the story . . . I did not see a response to Lester's truck inquiry, Lester, I hope you got an answer.  Having just read the Cryogenic Box article (Thank you Pat Wilder) I now have yet another reason to lament the passing of Martin Loften and the demise of Sunshine.  Now to put up the auto search for a 95.1 that will fit my era of 1944.


 
John Barry, wishing I'd had this awakening a decade or two earlier.


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


Benjamin Hom
 

John Barry wrote:
"Working on something else, I came across a picture of a Linde Box Tank http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/9/2/926272/55d377d1-88c4-4a63-8249-8c94b9f8d466-A28817.jpg
and was thinking of how to model what looked like a modified 1932 AAR car with strengthened underframe."

Look again - it's not a "strengthened" underframe!  It's a Duryea cushion underframe.  This photo provides a nice look of the spotting features: deep cross members; slightly extended draft gear, and the unique "lower" mounting of the brake components.  You can even make out the sliding center sill.

Sunshine flyer from Jim Hayes' website:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun95a.pdf


Ben Hom


rwitt_2000
 

Yes, it is a Duryea underframe, but looking at the photo, I would agree with John that this is not a standard underframe as the outer two cross-bearers are much larger than the inner two and were not typical of those used on the many Duryea underframes under B&O box cars. The Duryea underframe for a 40-ft box car usually had four cross-bearers all of the same size.

Regards,

Bob Witt, Indianapolis, IN


---In STMFC@..., <b.hom@...> wrote :

John Barry wrote:
"Working on something else, I came across a picture of a Linde Box Tank http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/9/2/926272/55d377d1-88c4-4a63-8249-8c94b9f8d466-A28817.jpg
and was thinking of how to model what looked like a modified 1932 AAR car with strengthened underframe."

Look again - it's not a "strengthened" underframe!  It's a Duryea cushion underframe.  This photo provides a nice look of the spotting features: deep cross members; slightly extended draft gear, and the unique "lower" mounting of the brake components.  You can even make out the sliding center sill.

Ben Hom 


Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Witt wrote:
"Yes, it is a Duryea underframe, but looking at the photo, I would agree with John that this is not a standard underframe as the outer two cross-bearers are much larger than the inner two and were not typical of those used on the many Duryea underframes under B&O box cars. The Duryea underframe for a 40-ft box car usually had four cross-bearers all of the same size."

I'll concede the first point, but the maddening thing about the Duryea cushion underframes is their variety.  I have doubts that there was any "standard" Duryea cushion underframe.


Ben Hom


carl roberts
 

Linde car is also available from Stan Rydarowicz. His info is linked off the Sunshine web site.
Carl Roberts


On Monday, June 9, 2014 8:52 PM, "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Bob Witt wrote:
"Yes, it is a Duryea underframe, but looking at the photo, I would agree with John that this is not a standard underframe as the outer two cross-bearers are much larger than the inner two and were not typical of those used on the many Duryea underframes under B&O box cars. The Duryea underframe for a 40-ft box car usually had four cross-bearers all of the same size."

I'll concede the first point, but the maddening thing about the Duryea cushion underframes is their variety.  I have doubts that there was any "standard" Duryea cushion underframe.

Ben Hom 




Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

Something to consider when comparing a 40' XT to other 40' box cars is that they are usually 70-ton cars which may account for a more substantial underframe.
 
Eric N.


 

Bob Witt wrote:
"Yes, it is a Duryea underframe, but looking at the photo, I would agree with John that this is not a standard underframe as the outer two cross-bearers are much larger than the inner two and were not typical of those used on the many Duryea underframes under B&O box cars. The Duryea underframe for a 40-ft box car usually had four cross-bearers all of the same size."

I'll concede the first point, but the maddening thing about the Duryea cushion underframes is their variety.  I have doubts that there was any "standard" Duryea cushion underframe.

Ben Hom 


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Is this not the car for which Stan Rydarowicz makes a kitbash kit? Not a
Sunshine, but certainly a way to get a fairly accurate model.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 10:28 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] A day late and a dollar short





Something to consider when comparing a 40' XT to other 40' box cars is that
they are usually 70-ton cars which may account for a more substantial
underframe.



Eric N.





Bob Witt wrote:
"Yes, it is a Duryea underframe, but looking at the photo, I would agree
with John that this is not a standard underframe as the outer two
cross-bearers are much larger than the inner two and were not typical of
those used on the many Duryea underframes under B&O box cars. The Duryea
underframe for a 40-ft box car usually had four cross-bearers all of the
same size."

I'll concede the first point, but the maddening thing about the Duryea
cushion underframes is their variety. I have doubts that there was any
"standard" Duryea cushion underframe.

Ben Hom


John Barry
 

Eric,

The nearly 10K gallons of Liquid Oxygen or other cryogenic liquified gas needed a sturdy double walled vessel that had to withstand internal pressure to vacuum on the inner and atmospheric pressure to vacuum on the outer.  That cann't have been light.  The cross bearers inboard of the bolsters seem to be about the same size as those.  Much beefier than the Duryea UF used on Santa Fe's Bx-27, of which I have a great personal use copy of a builders photo out of the CSRM collection.  My comment about "reinforced" was based on those extra large cross bearers and the riveted doubler plates attaching them to the sides.  These were heavy cars, with 115-116 K light weights, so I would expect a stronger UF and trucks.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "'Eric Neubauer' eaneubauer@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 9, 2014 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] A day late and a dollar short

 
Something to consider when comparing a 40' XT to other 40' box cars is that they are usually 70-ton cars which may account for a more substantial underframe.
 
Eric N.

 
Bob Witt wrote:
"Yes, it is a Duryea underframe, but looking at the photo, I would agree with John that this is not a standard underframe as the outer two cross-bearers are much larger than the inner two and were not typical of those used on the many Duryea underframes under B&O box cars. The Duryea underframe for a 40-ft box car usually had four cross-bearers all of the same size."

I'll concede the first point, but the maddening thing about the Duryea cushion underframes is their variety.  I have doubts that there was any "standard" Duryea cushion underframe.

Ben Hom 




John Barry
 

Thanks Carl,

I will contact Stan from your pointer!
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "carl roberts eagleu18b@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, June 9, 2014 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] A day late and a dollar short

 
Linde car is also available from Stan Rydarowicz. His info is linked off the Sunshine web site.
Carl Roberts


On Monday, June 9, 2014 8:52 PM, "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Bob Witt wrote:
"Yes, it is a Duryea underframe, but looking at the photo, I would agree with John that this is not a standard underframe as the outer two cross-bearers are much larger than the inner two and were not typical of those used on the many Duryea underframes under B&O box cars. The Duryea underframe for a 40-ft box car usually had four cross-bearers all of the same size."

I'll concede the first point, but the maddening thing about the Duryea cushion underframes is their variety.  I have doubts that there was any "standard" Duryea cushion underframe.

Ben Hom 






Benjamin Hom
 

Carl Roberts wrote:
"Linde car is also available from Stan Rydarowicz. His info is linked off the Sunshine web site."

http://www.sunshinekits.com/stanpage.htmlhttp://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/stanlinde.jpg

Be advised that Stan's kit models the 1945-46 cars and NOT CGBX 603, the car in the photo linked in John Barry's original post.  Best starting point for that car would be a 1932 ARA boxcar model with 4/4 Dreadnaught ends and rectangular panel roof.


Ben Hom


Clark Propst
 

Stan Rydarowicz has been selling a kit for that car (or similar) long before the Sunshine model was introduced. Give Stan a call. He’ll send you one.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Tony Thompson
 

Ben Hom wrote:

Be advised that Stan's kit models the 1945-46 cars and NOT CGBX 603, the car in the photo linked in John Barry's original post.  Best starting point for that car would be a 1932 ARA boxcar model with 4/4 Dreadnaught ends and rectangular panel roof.


     Right. That 1932 box car does need a bunch of new horizontal rivet rows. Obviously there was a lot of reinforcement for the tanks inside. I have one of the Sunshine kits built up, and can send a photo off-list if anyone needs to see what I mean.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
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