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FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)


Schuyler Larrabee
 

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-21-14/C4648.jpg

Another freight car incidentally caught by the DL&W's photographer - 1918.

Schuyler

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Brennan
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 10:17 PM
To: EL List
Subject: Re: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)

At 07:18 AM 6/21/2014, McKnight, Richard wrote:
http://lists.railfan.net/listthumb.cgi?erielack-06-21-14

C4648--Unknown location--Boxcars next to dual trolley tracks
[1918.xx.xx] C4649--Unknown location--Boxcars next to dual trolley
tracks [1918.xx.xx]
The boxcar carrying a lumber load being inspected by the 3 gentlemen with a
ladder is:
SP 85753 - Harriman Class B-50-1, built by AC&F-Detroit, October 1904
Ref: Southern Pacific Freight Cars - Vol. 4 - Tony Thompson, Signature Press
(p102)

N.B. In HO... this would be Westerfield #1701...


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------


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paul.doggett2472@...
 

What a great photo  thank you for sharing


Paul Doggett UK


Eric Lombard
 

Thanks for posting the link to this photo. The next in the sequence (click "Next Image" below photo) has a better shot of SP 85753 and also includes SOO 19764. I hazard that what appears to be lumber in the open doorway of SP 85753 are actually three grain boards. The wood item leaning against the car would then be a fourth, smaller, upper one. That image also shows SP 85753 to have a "what do we have in the junk pile to patch that hole in the end" repair.

Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL


On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 10:20 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-21-14/C4648.jpg

Another freight car incidentally caught by the DL&W's photographer - 1918.

Schuyler

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Brennan
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 10:17 PM
To: EL List
Subject: Re: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)

At 07:18 AM 6/21/2014, McKnight, Richard wrote:
>http://lists.railfan.net/listthumb.cgi?erielack-06-21-14
>
>C4648--Unknown location--Boxcars next to dual trolley tracks
>[1918.xx.xx] C4649--Unknown location--Boxcars next to dual trolley
>tracks [1918.xx.xx]

The boxcar carrying a lumber load being inspected by the 3 gentlemen with a
ladder is:
SP 85753 - Harriman Class B-50-1, built by AC&F-Detroit, October 1904
Ref: Southern Pacific Freight Cars - Vol. 4 - Tony Thompson, Signature Press
(p102)

N.B. In HO... this would be Westerfield #1701...

--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------

The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List
http://EL-List.railfan.net/
To Unsubscribe: http://Lists.Railfan.net/erielackunsub.html



Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


Box car ends and roofs were the source of many headaches. SP 85753 is a nice example of the former. It was built by ACF in 1904. The end sill is very similar to early PSC designs. It makes me wonder if PSC was still supplying materials to ACF at this late date. They certainly were in late 1901 when P&R class XMg was built.
 
Eric N.
 

Thanks for posting the link to this photo. The next in the sequence (click "Next Image" below photo) has a better shot of SP 85753 and also includes SOO 19764. I hazard that what appears to be lumber in the open doorway of SP 85753 are actually three grain boards. The wood item leaning against the car would then be a fourth, smaller, upper one. That image also shows SP 85753 to have a "what do we have in the junk pile to patch that hole in the end" repair.

Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL


On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 10:20 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-21-14/C4648.jpg

Another freight car incidentally caught by the DL&W's photographer - 1918.

Schuyler

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Brennan
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 10:17 PM
To: EL List
Subject: Re: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)

At 07:18 AM 6/21/2014, McKnight, Richard wrote:
>http://lists.railfan.net/listthumb.cgi?erielack-06-21-14
>
>C4648--Unknown location--Boxcars next to dual trolley tracks
>[1918.xx.xx] C4649--Unknown location--Boxcars next to dual trolley
>tracks [1918.xx.xx]

The boxcar carrying a lumber load being inspected by the 3 gentlemen with a
ladder is:
SP 85753 - Harriman Class B-50-1, built by AC&F-Detroit, October 1904
Ref: Southern Pacific Freight Cars - Vol. 4 - Tony Thompson, Signature Press
(p102)

N.B. In HO... this would be Westerfield #1701...

--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------

The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List
http://EL-List.railfan.net/
To Unsubscribe: http://Lists.Railfan.net/erielackunsub.html



Schuyler Larrabee
 

On that SOO Line car . . . there appears to be a crank integral with the stand-off that supports the vertical staff for the brakewheel . . .  but there’s no confirming shadow.  Is that what I’m seeing, or is it a feature of the board behind there?

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 6:41 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)

 

 

Thanks for posting the link to this photo. The next in the sequence (click "Next Image" below photo) has a better shot of SP 85753 and also includes SOO 19764. I hazard that what appears to be lumber in the open doorway of SP 85753 are actually three grain boards. The wood item leaning against the car would then be a fourth, smaller, upper one. That image also shows SP 85753 to have a "what do we have in the junk pile to patch that hole in the end" repair.


Eric Lombard

Homewood, IL

 

On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 10:20 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-21-14/C4648.jpg

Another freight car incidentally caught by the DL&W's photographer - 1918.

Schuyler

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Brennan
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 10:17 PM
To: EL List
Subject: Re: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)

At 07:18 AM 6/21/2014, McKnight, Richard wrote:
>http://lists.railfan.net/listthumb.cgi?erielack-06-21-14
>
>C4648--Unknown location--Boxcars next to dual trolley tracks
>[1918.xx.xx] C4649--Unknown location--Boxcars next to dual trolley
>tracks [1918.xx.xx]

The boxcar carrying a lumber load being inspected by the 3 gentlemen with a
ladder is:
SP 85753 - Harriman Class B-50-1, built by AC&F-Detroit, October 1904
Ref: Southern Pacific Freight Cars - Vol. 4 - Tony Thompson, Signature Press
(p102)

N.B. In HO... this would be Westerfield #1701...

--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------

The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List
http://EL-List.railfan.net/
To Unsubscribe: http://Lists.Railfan.net/erielackunsub.html

 


Ray Breyer
 

That's the ratchet mechanism you're seeing Schuyler. We're used to seeing that sort of thing on the brake platform, which this car doesn't have.
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


From: "'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)

On that SOO Line car . . . there appears to be a crank integral with the stand-off that supports the vertical staff for the brakewheel . . .  but there’s no confirming shadow.  Is that what I’m seeing, or is it a feature of the board behind there?
 Schuyler
 


Ray Breyer
 

Thanks for posting the link to this photo. The next in the sequence (click "Next Image" below photo) has a better shot of SP 85753 and also includes SOO 19764. I hazard that what appears to be lumber in the open doorway of SP 85753 are actually three grain boards. The wood item leaning against the car would then be a fourth, smaller, upper one. That image also shows SP 85753 to have a "what do we have in the junk pile to patch that hole in the end" repair.
Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL



They're definitely "grain" doors Eric; the high-res version of the photo gives you a lot of detail that the downloadable version doesn't show. There's no clues as to what the lading was, however.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Charles Morrill
 

There is some mystery there. Why would a car load of grain or whatever be at this street side team track and have a professional photographer there to take multiple photos of the event?

Charlie

-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@yahoo.com [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 4:40 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)


Thanks for posting the link to this photo. The next in the sequence (click "Next Image" below photo) has a better shot of SP 85753 and also includes SOO 19764. I hazard that what appears to be lumber in the open doorway of SP 85753 are actually three grain boards. The wood item leaning against the car would then be a fourth, smaller, upper one. That image also shows SP 85753 to have a "what do we have in the junk pile to patch that hole in the end" repair.
Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL



They're definitely "grain" doors Eric; the high-res version of the photo gives you a lot of detail that the downloadable version doesn't show. There's no clues as to what the lading was, however.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



------------------------------------
Posted by: Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@yahoo.com>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Guy Wilber
 

Charlie wrote:
 
"There is some mystery there. Why would a car load of grain or whatever be
at this street side team track and have a professional photographer there to
take multiple photos of the event?"
 
 
Charlie,
 
I doubt that we will ever know a 100% accurate answer, but I would guess there is something going on that relates to a claim against the railroad(s) involved with moving a load of grain.  It may have something to do with the damage to the end of the car which may have caused the loss of grain.  That may be why the upper grain door was able to be removed without causing a good amount to flow onto the ground.   It was also not uncommon for a buyer to take samples of the grain, but they wouldn't have needed to remove the upper grain door in order to access the load.
 
Regards,
 
Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada 


Douglas Harding
 

Charlie that appears to be a grain elevator or feed mill behind the car. As there are a few grain door boards on the ground near the ladder, I suspect they are checking the contents of the load. Grain testing was a common practice, checking for quality, moisture content, etc. The grain doors do not complete close the opening, because the load weighted out before cubing out a 40’ car. Boxcars commonly had lines marked on the interior near the door showing the load limit for different types of grain.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Michael Aufderheide
 

It might also be that the boxcar happened to be at the site of a railroad/auto or wagon accident.  I've seen many great photos of interesting, but unremarkable, places thanks to legal dept. photographers.

Mike Aufderheide


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Charlie, there’s not really any mystery to this.  The DL&W retained a professional photographer to take photos all the time.  The SP car has a broken-through end.  This is probably documentation of that fact, as once the car was emptied, the DL&W would be required to fix it.  The cost of the repair would be borne by the SP.  This gave them incontrovertible proof of the extent of the repair.

 

In this same series is a shot of a road crossing.  It’s likely that the photo of the crossing was taken to show that the crossing was well marked and whoever lost their wagon or horse or maybe their life at this crossing should have known to “Watch out for the train.”  It’s like the signs on the UP in Nebraska these days:  “Trains pass this crossing at speeds in excess of 90 miles per hour.”

 

As to why it’s there on an team track?  Because a lot of freight was delivered to team tracks and carted, wagonned, drayed, or otherwise carried away to a location not directly served by rails.  Someone (perhaps on another list) suggested that the plant in the background (which somebody should be able to use to locate this picture) was perhaps a brewery or something else that might use grain.  I doubt that this carload was intended to go to that location, because that industry is certainly large enough to have had its own sidings.

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 6:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)

 

 

There is some mystery there. Why would a car load of grain or whatever be
at this street side team track and have a professional photographer there to
take multiple photos of the event?

Charlie

-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 4:40 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646
thru C4650)

>Thanks for posting the link to this photo. The next in the sequence (click
>"Next Image" below photo) has a better shot of SP 85753 and also includes
>SOO 19764. I hazard that what appears to be lumber in the open doorway of
>SP 85753 are actually three grain boards. The wood item leaning against the
>car would then be a fourth, smaller, upper one. That image also shows SP
>85753 to have a "what do we have in the junk pile to patch that hole in the
>end" repair.
>Eric Lombard
>Homewood, IL

They're definitely "grain" doors Eric; the high-res version of the photo
gives you a lot of detail that the downloadable version doesn't show.
There's no clues as to what the lading was, however.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

------------------------------------
Posted by: Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...>
------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Dennis Storzek
 

You guys are too fixated on the freight cars :-) It's obvious from the composition of the photos that they are NOT the main subject, the streetscape is. IF they were taken in response to an accident, the issue was likely sight lines being blocked by the cars.

Can anyone read the initials of the interurban company on the car stop sign that states that "limited cars stop here"?

And no, the Soo Line did not use brake steps, on anything, until the first of the AAR standard cars arrived in 1936. On their cars, the pawl and ratchet mechanism was always combined with the upper brake staff bracket.

Dennis Storzek


Douglas Harding
 

Dennis, appears to read SL&NRR

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Dennis Storzek
 

Thanks Doug. I belatedly see that in the second photo the other side of the same sign is visible at the left edge of the image, easily readable. One would think in DL&W territory, with the letters S and L, that the words Scranton and Lackawanna would bring something up on Google; they do, but none of the predecessors of the Northern Electric seem to have the right initials. I'm going to have to dig out my copy of Hilton & Drew's "The Interurban Electric Railway In America".

Dennis Storzek


Douglas Harding
 

Dennis the only railroad I found was the Shepaug, Litchfield & Northern  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepaug,_Litchfield_and_Northern_Railroad

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Steve Haas
 

 

<<As to why it’s there on an team track?  Because a lot of freight was delivered to team tracks and carted, wagonned, drayed, or otherwise carried away to a location not directly served by rails.  Someone (perhaps on another list) suggested that the plant in the background (which somebody should be able to use to locate this picture) was perhaps a brewery or something else that might use grain.  I doubt that this carload was intended to go to that location, because that industry is certainly large enough to have had its own sidings.>>

 

Spotting the damaged car on the team track might have provided better access to the photographer asked to document the damage to the car.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA

 


Dennis Storzek
 

Nobody is documenting the damaged car. If they were, it would be central to the image. The car has been coopered, and is perfectly fit for service... the shipper loaded it, right?

99 times out of 100, boxcar ends were damaged from the inside, when the load broke loose and tried to blast its way out of the car. You would think that the shipper of this load of granular material ( the car is fitted with grain doors) should have rejected this car, but hey, when cars were hard ti get, you take what is offered.

For that matter, for all we know, the car is spotted at the shipper. The crew is just finishing applying the grain doors... without seeing the other side of the car, it's hard to tell.

No matter, since the car is not centered in the frame, it's not the subject of interest, just an incidental bystander. If the end damage was the point of interest, I'd expect to see close-ups of the repair, complete with a stream of grain trickling out.

Thanks, Scott, for the id of the location... it will save me from trying to find my copy of Hilton & Drew after all these years.

Dennis


Guy Wilber
 

Dennis wrote:
 
"For that matter, for all we know, the car is spotted at the shipper. The crew is just finishing applying the grain doors... without seeing the other side of the car, it's hard to tell."
 
 
There is absolutely no way that the crew is just finishing applying the grain doors.  Those  grain doors which are on the ground are beat to hell and still contain nails which you can clearly see at the ends indicating that they have been removed from the car.  Grain doors were typically built up with two layers while the ones on the ground in this photo have been separated during removal. 
 
Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


rwitt_2000
 

FWIW, it looks like a team track to me so any load in any type of freight car could appear.

The roadway seems wider providing a lane for trucks or wagons next to the railroad track. The first image in this group captures the end of the spur and two horse and wagon teams in the background.

An interesting scene with a meandering track along a city street.

Bob Witt, Indianapolis, IN