Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting


John Sykes III
 

Cross-posted from the moribund Erie group.

 

HELP!!!  I need some help from experts the likes of Paul T., Ted C., George E. or Larry DY.

 

I just got some Erie boxcars off e-bay (some haven't even arrived yet), and already I am planning on modifying them!  I have a lot of detail information from the Erie equipment diagrams I have, but I don't have P&LD drawings.

 

These questions are all predicated on the lack of color overhead shots of these cars online or in the few books I have.

 

The first question I had pertained to the 78500 series, but I found an Innovative Model Works 1937-style boxcar I bought some time ago that had a set of Speedwitch decals with Teds painting directions in with it, so that issue is solved.  Ted recommended SCII Oxide red, which is what I used, and makes this car a lot lighter than the Intermountain and Atlas models.  My memory from the late 1950's and early 1960's is of a more maroon red, close to SCII caboose red (originally called D&H caboose red).  What's the consensus here?

 

I have some of the 8200-82499 ACF boxcars on hand and on order.  The earlier cars had Murphy carbon steel roofs and the latter bunch had Murphy galvanized steel roofs.  The cars I have already received (Intermountain) have red roofs, but the numbers are from the galvanized series.  So, were these roofs painted red, black or left as bare galvanizing?

 

Same question as above for the 82500-83199 cars (red, black or unpainted galvanized?).  I think this whole series got the Murphy galvanized roofs.  But some had Apex roofwalks and some the USGs.

 

I have some USG diamond tread roofwalks on hand and more on order, so with the various brake wheels, Apex roofwalks and Viking roofs I already have I am covered there.

 

All the cars came with ends painted black.  Is this correct?

 

On the roof subject again, if the galvanized roofs were painted black, was it overall black (with or without boxcar red overspray on the sides?), or were just the roof seams painted black (actually black roof cement for waterproofing)?  Also, were the roofwalks painted or left bare? (they were also galvanized)

 

Finally, I ordered a Intermountain PS-1 boxcar, without noticing that the car number is higher than the range of Erie cars (84000-84009 -- Intermountain model is 84042?!?!?).  Other than trying to renumber it correctly and adding the cushioned couplers, what other alternatives are there?  I double checked a 1958 ORER and there are no Erie boxcars in the 8404x series at all.  I will have to renumber this car.  However, since the Speedwitch decal set has extra Erie-style numbers, that shouldn't be a problem.  Oh, yeah, I have a new way of removing the factory lettering (using Turtle Wax red Rubbing Compound -- it even leaves the surface glossy & ready to decal).


P.S.  I am modeling the PRR in the 1953-1956 timeframe.  Starting date is flexible but ending date is fixed by the closing of the EBT in March 1956 (I am doing the Middle Division w/interchange with the EBT and Erie), so mid-1950's paint scheme is what I want.

 

-- John


John Sykes III
 

A little clarification.


Schuyler e-mailed me and asked what I meant by the moribund Erie group.  Apparently there are two groups here, the one I belong to is the Erie Railroad Collector and Modeler group.  Is there also an EL group here???  I think I didn't join that one because I am not very interested in the Erie after the 1960 merger.  I think that was the death knell for the Erie and just postponed its demise until CONRAIL adsorbed the EL.  I say this in spite of the fact that one of my uncles worked for the Erie and one for the Lackawanna, so when the merger occurred it gave me the opportunity for a cab ride (I blew the horn for the grade crossings) at the age of 12, circa 1961 or so.


-- John


John Sykes III
 

P.S.  I forgot to mention, I have a lettering diagram for Erie Auto Box cars which shows the change to the yellow diamond on 1/17/1944 and the change to the white 6' diamond on 12/17/1946 (diagram 152-12-368).  I would assume that the change occurred for the regular boxcars around the same dates.


-- John


Schuyler Larrabee
 

That is correct on both counts.  After’46, the ERIE seemed to chase down all the small diamond cars and repaint them, in some cases repainting ONLY the diamond.  There are photos of small-diamonded house cars after, say, 1948, but not very many.

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 8:21 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting

 

 

P.S.  I forgot to mention, I have a lettering diagram for Erie Auto Box cars which shows the change to the yellow diamond on 1/17/1944 and the change to the white 6' diamond on 12/17/1946 (diagram 152-12-368).  I would assume that the change occurred for the regular boxcars around the same dates.

 

-- John


Schuyler Larrabee
 

I don’t know if there is an EL group, an Erie Lackawanna group on Yahoo.  Probably, given the vast array of groups out there.  But what I suggested to John is that he might want to be on the “erieclack” list, which is NOT a Yahoo list.  It’s hosted by Railfan.net.  it is a less-rigorously managed list than the STMFC (no complaints, Mike!) and covers ERIE, DL&W and EL.  There’s a tilt toward EL, but as I said to John, I have a delete key.  it’s moderately active, probably 20 posts per day.  It’s the source of the daily 5-shots of DL&W historical photos that I have, from time to time, forwarded links for when there is steam era freight equipment in the pictures.  To subscribe:

 

Subscribing to the list is easy! Simply send an E-mail to majordomo@..., and in the BODY of the message, type in:

      subscribe erielack yourname@...

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 8:16 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting

 

 

A little clarification.

 

Schuyler e-mailed me and asked what I meant by the moribund Erie group.  Apparently there are two groups here, the one I belong to is the Erie Railroad Collector and Modeler group.  Is there also an EL group here???  I think I didn't join that one because I am not very interested in the Erie after the 1960 merger.  I think that was the death knell for the Erie and just postponed its demise until CONRAIL adsorbed the EL.  I say this in spite of the fact that one of my uncles worked for the Erie and one for the Lackawanna, so when the merger occurred it gave me the opportunity for a cab ride (I blew the horn for the grade crossings) at the age of 12, circa 1961 or so.

 

-- John


John Sykes III
 

OK, this discussion keeps going around in circles, so I will simplify.


Does anyone know what color the ends and roofs on the Erie 8400-8409 PS-1 boxcars were when delivered?


That should be a simple question to answer.


-- John


Ed Hawkins
 

On Jul 1, 2014, at 4:19 PM, johnsykesiii@yahoo.com [STMFC] wrote:

Does anyone know what color the ends and roofs on the Erie 8400-8409 PS-1 boxcars were when delivered?
John,
Presumably you are seeking data for Erie 84000-84009, 10 cars built 2-54 having Pullman cushion underframes. The ends were coated with black car cement. Based on what I can see from the builder's photo of 84009, the roof was unpainted galvanized steel, however, the seam caps appear to have received a thin coat of black car cement. This was a fairly common practice for box cars with unpainted roofs particularly during the early to mid-1950s. The running board was not painted.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


John Sykes III
 

Thanks Ed, that is EXACTLY what I was looking for!


-- John