Topics

NYC car type?


Clark Propst
 

Just found a car I’d like to model NYC 164202. Anyone have any idea if it’s something available, or kitbashable?
 
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Benjamin Hom
 

Clark Propst asked:
"Just found a car I’d like to model NYC 164202. Anyone have any idea if it’s something available, or kitbashable?"

NYC 164000-164999, Lot 759-B, postwar 10 ft 6 in IH AAR boxcar, 6 ft door opening, 4/4 Improved Dreadnaught ends, rectangular panel roof.  Branchline #1400 undec kit is your best starting point.
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/postwaraarpdf.html
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT2.htm
 
 
Ben Hom


David Sieber
 

Clark,
     Also, don't forget to model one of the distinctive minor details of NYC System boxcars of your era - the tow loop sticking out from the bolster tabs on NYC (IHB, P&LE, etc.) boxcars, as shown in photos at http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/nyc-freight.htm and http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/nyc-subs.htm . Enjoy!
Dave Sieber, Reno NV 

To: STMFC@...
From: STMFC@...
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 06:46:35 -0700
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NYC car type?
Clark Propst asked: "Just found a car I’d like to model NYC 164202. Anyone have any idea if it’s something available, or kitbashable?"

NYC 164000-164999, Lot 759-B, postwar 10 ft 6 in IH AAR boxcar, 6 ft door opening, 4/4 Improved Dreadnaught ends, rectangular panel roof.  Branchline #1400 undec kit is your best starting point.
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/postwaraarpdf.html
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT2.htm
 
Ben Hom


Clark Propst
 

Thanks Guys! Really appreciate it.
I did dig through that Canadian website to find the car. Guess it’s designed for NYC freaks? Why else would everything be listed by lot numbers instead of being in numerical order? Gads...
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Benjamin Hom
 

Clark Propst wrote:
"I did dig through that Canadian [Southern] website to find the car. Guess it’s designed for NYC freaks? Why else would everything be listed by lot numbers instead of being in numerical order? Gads..."
 
Actually, the lot number system makes more sense than number series once you crack the code (having an equipment diagram book helps immensely) as the same car type can span multiple lots, but it's still not as intuitive as the PRR Class system.
 
What's needed is a Rosetta stone that links lot numbers with frieght car types and a comparison of overall quanties to get a true sense of what the NYC fleet was truly all about. For example: Lot 703-B = 10 ft IH 1937 AAR boxcar, 1073 cars; Lots 734-B, 745-B = 10 ft 6 in IH Modified 1937 AAR boxcar, 2000 cars, and so on.
 
As a community, we really don't know what we don't know about the NYCS car fleet, and that in turn hurts model availability as we don't have a good sense of what needs to be targeted.  I'm kicking around some ideas on how to collate and display this data and should have an initial proof of concept something out later this summer.
 
 
Ben Hom


Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


Ben,
 
I don't think things are as gloomy as you think. Whenever I compile builder lists, the original identity and quantity are on the first line. Between the diagram books, Railway Age annual order summaries, and the ORER, I rarely have any trouble coming up with the primary information for NYCS cars. It only gets difficult when I get back to the wooden cars, but that's true for most railroads.
 
Eric N. 
 
 

Clark Propst wrote:
"I did dig through that Canadian [Southern] website to find the car. Guess it’s designed for NYC freaks? Why else would everything be listed by lot numbers instead of being in numerical order? Gads..."
 
Actually, the lot number system makes more sense than number series once you crack the code (having an equipment diagram book helps immensely) as the same car type can span multiple lots, but it's still not as intuitive as the PRR Class system.
 
What's needed is a Rosetta stone that links lot numbers with frieght car types and a comparison of overall quanties to get a true sense of what the NYC fleet was truly all about. For example: Lot 703-B = 10 ft IH 1937 AAR boxcar, 1073 cars; Lots 734-B, 745-B = 10 ft 6 in IH Modified 1937 AAR boxcar, 2000 cars, and so on.
 
As a community, we really don't know what we don't know about the NYCS car fleet, and that in turn hurts model availability as we don't have a good sense of what needs to be targeted.  I'm kicking around some ideas on how to collate and display this data and should have an initial proof of concept something out later this summer.
 
 
Ben Hom 


Noel Widdifield
 

You can also get in touch with us at the NYCSHS.  We have a very active Modeling Committee working on some of the issue you talk about. We use lot numbers to find the cars and then the equipment diagram books give us the road number for the lots.
 If you have specific questions you can direct them to us at NYCSHS@... and we can probably help you.
Thanks, Noel
Noel Widdifield
NYCSHS Director
Chair, NYCSHS Modeling Committee


Michael Aufderheide
 

Clark,

 

Branchline did issue the series after this-Lot 763-B.....if you can find one on ebay, etc. It looks to be identical to the lot you asked about with the possible exception of handbrake and running board (per the Steam Era site table)  I have car number 165289. Intermountain has done many series similar to these lots, but I don't know with which ends. 

 

Regards,

 

Mike Aufderheide



Rick Jesionowski
 

Use Control F to look up a car number in a series of cars. Works for me.

Rick Jesionowski


Benjamin Hom
 

Eric Neubauer wrote:
"I don't think things are as gloomy as you think.
Whenever I compile builder lists, the original identity and quantity are on the
first line. Between the diagram books, Railway Age annual order summaries, and
the ORER, I rarely have any trouble coming up with the primary information for
NYCS cars. It only gets difficult when I get back to the wooden cars, but that's
true for most railroads."
You misunderstand me.  I have no doubt that the details exist.  As Clark's earlier comments illustrate, what's missing is an understanding of the big picture.  For example, the casual modeler on this list knows what PRR boxcars are the most common thanks to the work done by many researchers, including Ian Fischer, Richard Burg, and others over the years.  Nothing approaching even this coarse granularity exists for the NYCS.  Everyone wants a magnum opus - it simply doesn't exist for the NYCS.  Can anyone point to ANY source that shows proportions of cars that a modeler can use to build a fleet?  How many USRA-design steel boxcars?  How many prewar AAR boxcars?  How many postwar AAR boxcars?  Sadly, the answer is a resounding no. 

The details are there, but what needs to be done is someone to do the work putting all of the pieces together into a mosaic capturing the big picture.


Ben Hom


Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

I guess the main problem is that their lot system makes their fleet seem very complex and even a bit scary. It's not very intuitive.
 
Eric N.
 
 

Eric Neubauer wrote:
"I don't think things are as gloomy as you think.
Whenever I compile builder lists, the original identity and quantity are on the
first line. Between the diagram books, Railway Age annual order summaries, and
the ORER, I rarely have any trouble coming up with the primary information for
NYCS cars. It only gets difficult when I get back to the wooden cars, but that's
true for most railroads."
You misunderstand me.  I have no doubt that the details exist.  As Clark's earlier comments illustrate, what's missing is an understanding of the big picture.  For example, the casual modeler on this list knows what PRR boxcars are the most common thanks to the work done by many researchers, including Ian Fischer, Richard Burg, and others over the years.  Nothing approaching even this coarse granularity exists for the NYCS.  Everyone wants a magnum opus - it simply doesn't exist for the NYCS.  Can anyone point to ANY source that shows proportions of cars that a modeler can use to build a fleet?  How many USRA-design steel boxcars?  How many prewar AAR boxcars?  How many postwar AAR boxcars?  Sadly, the answer is a resounding no. 

The details are there, but what needs to be done is someone to do the work putting all of the pieces together into a mosaic capturing the big picture.

Ben Hom  


Allan Smith
 

The Railmodel Journal Nov 99 Page 28 has pictures and construction details of the 164000-164999 Lot 759B  boxcars. One photo is of the A end and the murphy roof. Also the various lettering schemes.
Al Smith


On Monday, July 7, 2014 6:46 AM, "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Clark Propst asked:
"Just found a car I’d like to model NYC 164202. Anyone have any idea if it’s something available, or kitbashable?"

NYC 164000-164999, Lot 759-B, postwar 10 ft 6 in IH AAR boxcar, 6 ft door opening, 4/4 Improved Dreadnaught ends, rectangular panel roof.  Branchline #1400 undec kit is your best starting point.
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/postwaraarpdf.html
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT2.htm
 
 
Ben Hom



Seth Lakin
 

Clark as Dave pointed out, NYC boxcar characteristics of the day included the tow lugs at the bolsters. I use Detail Associates 1106 Alco PA/FA lift rings, they need a little squeeze to narrow them down a bit. I see that DA also offers a #6214 roping rings, they look the same as the lift rings but I don't have any to measure the difference, the LHS only stocks DA diesel parts so that is what usually comes home.
 
Also one detail that are on NYC boxcars that are not represented on the Branchline kit are polling pockets. I drill them into the ends with a 1/16 drill. Be careful, one quarter twist too far, you'll end up with a hole instead of a cup. I show this technique in my article on modeling a NYC lot 858-B boxcar that is slated to run in the next (Sept or Oct) NYCModeler, the free modeling ezine from the New York Central System Historical Society.
 
Decals are a little hard to find. I suggest CDS dry transfer #459 which is for a NYC lot 763-B boxcar. While not quite the same, the data should be all correct, as it is an identical boxcar, just from a different builder. If you want a jade green car, Microscale should have everything you need.
 
Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN
Member NYCHS Modeler's Committee
 
 
 
 


riverman_vt@...
 

     Speaking of the NYC boxcar fleet, does anyone know if any of the NYC USRA single or double sheathed boxcars make it into the post war era in their original construction or were all either rebuilt with steel sides or destroyed in service beforehand?

 

Cordially, Don Valentine ..... hoping to find a few of each survived in their original form.


Jeff English
 

Folks,

 

You don't hear from me very often (partly because I can't keep up with the bandwidth on this list), but I've been made aware that the topic is NYC box cars.  If anyone has a question about this particular topic, please feel free to contact me <off list> and I'll be happy to help as best I can.

 

Seth Lakin mentions "tow lugs"; as far as I know, the correct term for these is "roping staples".

 

Ben Hom is thinking about ways to parse NYC System's 50,000-car box car fleet; Ben I'd like to discuss what your ideas are.  I have a pretty good familiarity with all the groupings, but I think one of the primary organizational tools would be the NYC's "Spec"s; I have not yet gotten a hold of a document that lays out all the Specs (something I've been meaning to do for a long time, assuming NYCSHS has such an animal).

 

Jeff English

Troy, New York

also a member of the NYCSHS Modelers Committee


David
 

I dunno, NYCS always seemed fairly straightforward to me, once you get past the subsidiary renumberings. Plenty of oddball groups in rather low numbers, plus a few primary designs in large quantities.

Lots of 36' ds boxes with large straight side sills in the early-mid Teens, then the 40' ds and steel auto boxes late in the decade, a relative handful of USRA ds and ss boxes, the tidal wave of USRA steel boxes and auto car derivatives in the '20s, a breather in the '30s with a few steel-sided rebuilds, then launching into large purchases on 50-foot auto boxes and the 10' IH 40-foot boxes in the '40s.

Hoppers are even simpler: piles of the NYC-version of the 1905CD twins before 1920, then more piles of USRA twins and some triples in the '20s, with a few offset-side orders later in the decade. then NYC's shorty version of the AAR offset-side twin in the '40s, and their bazillion-rib 70-ton triples in the '50s.

David Thompson


Clark Propst
 

Do to the lack of NYC box car decals I was thinking of using an NYC decorated car and changing what needs changing, ends, roof, numbers, etc.
 
As a causal NYC modeler, meaning I may have three cars. I could give a rats rear about lots. I wish someone would take all that great info on that Canadian website and transfer it to excel so one could filter to find what one’s looking for in a few clicks.
 
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Earl Tuson
 

Ben Hom says:

�Can anyone point to ANY source that shows proportions of cars that a modeler can use to build a fleet? �How many
USRA-design steel boxcars? �How many prewar AAR boxcars? �How many postwar AAR boxcars? �Sadly, the answer is a
resounding no.�

Hmm, I have a very distinct impression of having a just such a handout from Jeff English that offered that precise
information. I think the appropriate model list was limited to S scale models though�

Either that, or my memory is going at a rather young age.

Earl Tuson


Armand Premo
 


Clark,Have you thought of Speedwitch NYC decals? Ted has an excellent  set. .Think they might be still available.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 11:22 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NYC car type?

 

Do to the lack of NYC box car decals I was thinking of using an NYC decorated car and changing what needs changing, ends, roof, numbers, etc.
 
As a causal NYC modeler, meaning I may have three cars. I could give a rats rear about lots. I wish someone would take all that great info on that Canadian website and transfer it to excel so one could filter to find what one’s looking for in a few clicks.
 
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

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Benjamin Hom
 

Earl Tuson wrote:
"Hmm, I have a very distinct impression of having a just such a handout from Jeff English that offered that precise information.  I think the appropriate model list was limited to S scale models though…"
You mean this handout?
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/nycsboxmain.html

Any work on this subject should use Jeff's research as a starting point - it does contain overall numbers, but is missing an important component - the population of cars over time.


Ben Hom