NYC boxcar 163277
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Dave Nelson
Roger, the answer is on drawing T-54247
Dave Nelson
p.s. I also endorse the utility of the NYC Historical Society CD’s. They can be a bit expensive but when you compute the per drawing cost it usually works out to dirt cheap.
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
No mention is made on this drawing of who the supplier is but it's obviously the vendor being discussed. The intermediate roof sheets( qty 10) are raised panel type with a two inch high profile, the two end sheets are flat
This drawing is available from the NYC Historical Society on their CD 157. Roof General Arrangements were prepared for the majority of the NYC box cars and are a better source of information than diagram books or full car general arrangrments.
Roger Hinman |
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David
Judging by this:
Official Gazette of the United States Patent Office
looks like SRE started out in St. Louis. David Thompson |
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Bob, that box car -- 19682 -- is almost certainly a Wabash box car built by General American in 1953, series 19500-19799 Tim At 7/12/2014 04:13 PM Saturday, you wrote: Found this ad for a diagonal pane roof in that collection for 1955. They use the term "Standard". |
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ROGER HINMAN
Back to the original question. I have a copy of New York Central drawing Y-54262 titled "General Arrangement, All Steel Roof, Freight Cars" dated Apr 24, 1946 which is applicable to Lot 743-B as well as five other contemporary lots.
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No mention is made on this drawing of who the supplier is but it's obviously the vendor being discussed. The intermediate roof sheets( qty 10) are raised panel type with a two inch high profile, the two end sheets are flat This drawing is available from the NYC Historical Society on their CD 157. Roof General Arrangements were prepared for the majority of the NYC box cars and are a better source of information than diagram books or full car general arrangrments. Roger Hinman On Jul 12, 2014, at 4:13 PM, rwitt_2000@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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rwitt_2000
Found this ad for a diagonal pane roof in that collection for 1955. They use the term "Standard".
Waide Collection of Vintage Railroad Advertisements 1950 - Present - WaidePhoto
Bob Witt |
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proto48er
Ed - Many, many thanks!!! You have been a tremendous help in keeping us on the prototype "straight and narrow!" Anxiously awaiting an import....
A. T. Kott |
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Tony Thompson
Tim O'Connor wrote:
I first realized the timing on the Stanray change when I was systematically going through all issues of Railway Age, over 25 years ago when researching for the PFE book. The Stanray ads in the magazine suddenly appeared in about 1961. Previously the term had never surfaced in their ads. I later saw a 1961 Cyc, as Tim describes. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Tony's comment inspired me to do some digging... Technically, Standard Railway Equipment become a SUBSIDIARY of Stanray Corporation, and both names appear together in the 1961 Car Builder Cyclopedia. So we probably should not refer to the railroad products as "Stanray" regardless of the era -- SRE or SRECO is more precise. Seems to me I've seen "SRE" used before. But poking around led me to this collection of RAILROAD ADVERTISEMENTS which is definitely worth a visit! There are over 2,000 ads here in the 1950-2011 collection and most of them seem to be from the 1950's. http://waidephoto.smugmug.com/Trains Tim O' A.T. Kott wrote: |
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Tony Thompson
A.T. Kott wrote:
Small point of nomenclature: the Standard Railway Equipment Company did not begin to refer to itself as "Stanray" until after the term of this list, and my opinion no roofs of cars which fall into the period of this list should be called Stanray roofs. It is purely an anachronistic term on this list. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Ed Hawkins
On Jul 11, 2014, at 8:06 PM, atkott@... [STMFC] wrote:
In your roof photos, can you see whether they have US Gypsum runningA.T., NYC 162000-163999, Lot 743-B, are as follows: Running boards & brake steps: Apex 162000-162999 (1,000) U.S. Gypsum 163000-163999 (1,000) Hand brakes: Ajax first 162000-162499 (500) Miner 162500-162981, 163000-163017 (500) Ureco 162982-162999, 163018-163348, 163350-163500 (500) Superior 163349, 163501-163699, 163950-163999 (250) Klasing 163700-163949 (250) Regards, Ed Hawkins |
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A
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In the photo that Ben linked, the handbrake is clearly Ajax. But in one of my photos, it appears to be a Ureco. The running boards and brake platforms are Apex. T Thanks, Tim! |
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proto48er
Thanks, Tim!
In your roof photos, can you see whether they have US Gypsum running boards? Also, can you see what make of handbrake they had? A.T. Kott |
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The 969-B cars had rectangular panel roofs -- At least they do in the
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two roof shots I have. The modeling recommendations at http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT2.htm are misleading for both 743-B and 969-B - AFAIK, no postwar AAR boxcars were built with carbuilder's flat panel roofs. The the photo of the lot 969-B cars is inconclusive regarding rectangular vs. diagonal panels, but you'd think if the cars were given new roofs (which I find highly unlikely), they would have received overhanging-eave roofs given the date. |
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proto48er
Ben - Thank you! I am wondering what mechanical drawing Dave has that gives roof type, truck type and running board type information. None of my pre-1948 NYC diagrams have that; nor does Ed Hawkins' fantastic compilation of the 1944 AAR 40' boxcar data (for Lot 743-B, that is) - except for the roof type.
I am trying to build up a small roster of NYC 40' boxcars circa April, 1948. I have one USRA double sheathed car, six clones of the all-steel USRA boxcars, one 1937 alternate design boxcar, and would like one 1944 AAR car with 4+4 improved Drednaught ends - that is my reason for asking. This should balance out my 14 PRR boxcar fleet! Down here in south Texas, we saw more PRR cars on MP than NYC cars, and about equal numbers of NYC and PRR cars on the M-K-T. Thanks again! A. T. Kott |
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Benjamin Hom
A.T. Kott asked:
"Dave - I have a question about the type of roof indicated on your mechanical drawing for the NYC Lot 743-B boxcars. In post #126331, you indicate that the cars had a "STANRAY roof". Since the 2,000 boxcars in Lot 743-B were built in 1945, does this "STANRAY" mean the diagonal panel roof? (I thought it was first applied to freight cars in late 1948!?) Does the Stanray mean a flat panel roof (sans diagonals) by the same manufacturer? Or is your mechanical drawing for the 500 cars modified in 1965-66 and placed in Lot 969-B?" Ed Hawkins' spreadsheet lists Lot 743-B having rectangular panel roofs, not a diagonal panel roof.http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/postwaraarpdf.html The modeling recommendations at http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT2.htm are misleading for both 743-B and 969-B - AFAIK, no postwar AAR boxcars were built with carbuilder's flat panel roofs. The the photo of the lot 969-B cars is inconclusive regarding rectangular vs. diagonal panels, but you'd think if the cars were given new roofs (which I find highly unlikely), they would have received overhanging-eave roofs given the date. http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-207295.jpg Ben Hom |
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proto48er
Dave - I have a question about the type of roof indicated on your mechanical drawing for the NYC Lot 743-B boxcars. In post #126331, you indicate that the cars had a "STANRAY roof". Since the 2,000 boxcars in Lot 743-B were built in 1945, does this "STANRAY" mean the diagonal panel roof? (I thought it was first applied to freight cars in late 1948!?) Does the Stanray mean a flat panel roof (sans diagonals) by the same manufacturer? Or is your mechanical drawing for the 500 cars modified in 1965-66 and placed in Lot 969-B?
Thank you for your response! A.T. Kott |
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Dave Nelson
Probably but there isn’t anything I have that specifically says so.
They are identified as Intermediate side posts, 20 per car. There are also 4 corner posts, 4 door posts, and 4 door filler posts. Length is from the top of the floor to ½ inch below the bottom of the side plate and so on this car that would 10ft, 5 and 5/16 inches.
Dave Nelson
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 3:22 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] NYC boxcar 163277
So the 3x3 posts were used to attach the lining?
Eric N. The mechanical drawing for the car shows a series of interior 3x3 inch wood posts set vertically. The rivets you see on the outside are fastening a small L shape which holds c-bolts that run thru the post. The L shapes are set so they fit on both sides of the post, alternating sides, top to bottom. The boxcar was built as a “Grain Boxcar”… Lot 743-B, with a US Gypsum running board, Barber S-2 trucks, STANRAY roof & ends per the 1944 standard. Dave Nelson |
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Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
So the 3x3 posts were used to attach the
lining?
Eric
N.
The mechanical drawing for the car shows a series of interior 3x3 inch wood posts set vertically. The rivets you see on the outside are fastening a small L shape which holds c-bolts that run thru the post. The L shapes are set so they fit on both sides of the post, alternating sides, top to bottom.
The boxcar was built as a “Grain Boxcar”… Lot 743-B, with a US Gypsum running board, Barber S-2 trucks, STANRAY roof & ends per the 1944 standard.
Dave Nelson
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
What are is the function of the 2 large rivets between each steel panel about a foot from the edge of the roof? gary laakso south of Mike Brock |
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Dave Nelson
The mechanical drawing for the car shows a series of interior 3x3 inch wood posts set vertically. The rivets you see on the outside are fastening a small L shape which holds c-bolts that run thru the post. The L shapes are set so they fit on both sides of the post, alternating sides, top to bottom.
The boxcar was built as a “Grain Boxcar”… Lot 743-B, with a US Gypsum running board, Barber S-2 trucks, STANRAY roof & ends per the 1944 standard.
Dave Nelson
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 3:14 AM To: stmfc Subject: [STMFC] NYC boxcar 163277
What are is the function of the 2 large rivets between each steel panel about a foot from the edge of the roof?
gary laakso south of Mike Brock
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Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
The end rivets (actually bolts) are easier to
explain. Usually there are four across the end and they attach a wooden
part inside the rib which is used to nail the lining to. There are more
toward the bottom of the end than the top.
Eric N.
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