Seley Hopper ca. 1944


rwitt_2000
 

Also from the Columbus, Georgia photos is a "Seley" hopper no doubt in ash service.

1944 -- Columbus, Georgia (132 photos) - Don Strack

 

Regards,

Bob Witt



csxt5555
 

Seeing that Sealy hopper got me thinking.  What other roads beside Southern had these type cars?

Kevin Sprayberry


On Jul 13, 2014, at 3:43 PM, "rwitt_2000@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Also from the Columbus, Georgia photos is a "Seley" hopper no doubt in ash service.

1944 -- Columbus, Georgia (132 photos) - Don Strack

 

Regards,

Bob Witt



Benjamin Hom
 

Kevin Sprayberry asked:
"Seeing that SELEY [FTFY - NO "A"] hopper got me thinking.  What other roads beside Southern had these type cars?"

Several other roads tried out these cars in the early 20th century, including B&O and N&W, but the other major user in the 1940s and 1950s was the D&H, who had a total of 3553 cars in July 1950, over half of their hopper fleet.  Some cars remained in their as built configuration, but many were modified by cutting away the sheathing below the slope sheets, and some cars were further modified by replacing the original hoppers on some cars with three or four "sawtooth" hoppers.  Some cars also received steel sides.  See John Nehrich's articles in the December 1987 and March 1988 issues of Mainline Modeler for more information.

Ben Hom


David
 

Seley hoppers in general were rostered by a healthy assortment of railroads in the early 20th century: N&W, Virginian, C&O, Southern, B&O, ACL, SAL, Frisco, Rock Island, D&H, O&W, etc.

If you're asking about the specific steel-end version ordered by Southern in the 1920s, the only other buyer that comes to mind is AB&C.

David Thompson


csxt5555
 

Anybody know where photos of an ACL car could be found?

Kevin Sprayberry


On Jul 13, 2014, at 5:56 PM, "jaydeet2001@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Seley hoppers in general were rostered by a healthy assortment of railroads in the early 20th century: N&W, Virginian, C&O, Southern, B&O, ACL, SAL, Frisco, Rock Island, D&H, O&W, etc.

If you're asking about the specific steel-end version ordered by Southern in the 1920s, the only other buyer that comes to mind is AB&C.

David Thompson


water.kresse@...
 

Did they have steel center sills?
 
Al Kresse


From: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
To: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2014 5:56:24 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

 

Seley hoppers in general were rostered by a healthy assortment of railroads in the early 20th century: N&W, Virginian, C&O, Southern, B&O, ACL, SAL, Frisco, Rock Island, D&H, O&W, etc.


If you're asking about the specific steel-end version ordered by Southern in the 1920s, the only other buyer that comes to mind is AB&C.

David Thompson



water.kresse@...
 

The C&Os were purchased second-hand.
Al Kresse


From: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
To: "Steam Era Frt Car Group" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2014 5:56:24 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

 

Seley hoppers in general were rostered by a healthy assortment of railroads in the early 20th century: N&W, Virginian, C&O, Southern, B&O, ACL, SAL, Frisco, Rock Island, D&H, O&W, etc.


If you're asking about the specific steel-end version ordered by Southern in the 1920s, the only other buyer that comes to mind is AB&C.

David Thompson



Benjamin Hom
 

Al Kresse asked:



"Did [Seley hoppers] have steel center sills?"

Yes.


Ben Hom


rwitt_2000
 

The "Seley" hoppers were B&O class N-11. As built I don't believe they had steel center sills. Overtime as with many freight cars they did received steel centers as noted on equipment rosters.

Private coal companys also owned these cars. Two of them affiliated with with the B&O were the Fairmont Coal Company and the Sunday Creek Coal Company.  When the coal companies sold their coal car fleets many of these cars came to the B&ORR.

There is a photo of a Fairmont Coal Co. N-11 on the B&O Yahoo Group site.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Baltimore_and_Ohio/photos/albums/660133675/lightbox/1562499995#zax/1562499995

 

Bob Witt


water.kresse@...
 

Thanks Ben!
 
My 1918-1922 C&O FC diagram sheet 602 for C&O 55-ton nos. 20810-20999 series hopper-bottom gondola cars blt by South Baltimore Car and Foundry in 7-1906 thru 7-1907 only mentioned their Bettendorf trucks (versus arch-bar).  Usually, steel center sills are mentioned only on cars originally blt w/o them. 
 
Wooden HBGs stayed around on the C&O in iron ore and limestone service from branch lines to the blast furnaces through WW One.  They did keep them segregated from those all-steel "battleships" as reported in the newspapers.  The only time they stayed in C&O yards was when the tracks in the furnace yards got to bad that they were afraid to take a "heavy" older 2-8-0 into the yard.  Tipple side tracks at the mines were also problematic.
 
A Kresse

 

Al Kresse asked:

"Did [Seley hoppers] have steel center sills?"

Yes.

Ben Hom



A&Y Dave in MD
 

At 05:56 PM 7/13/2014, you wrote:
Seley hoppers in general were rostered by a healthy assortment of railroads in the early 20th century: N&W, Virginian, C&O, Southern, B&O, ACL, SAL, Frisco, Rock Island, D&H, O&W, etc.

If you're asking about the specific steel-end version ordered by Southern in the 1920s, the only other buyer that comes to mind is AB&C.

David Thompson

I've collected a set of 8 of the F&C kits of the Seley hopper for the Southern (mix of K and modernized AB brake versions), as they were used on the CF line (A&Y, and, post 1950, Southern) for clay service from the pit near Gulf, NC up to Pomona and/or Pleasant Garden, NC for vitrified pipe and possibly brick.

Is the F&C kit accurate for the Southern's steel end version?  I made a lot of assumptions in the past when purchasing kits, and now, after a few months on this list, I'm questioning a lot more than I used to do.

Dave Bott


David
 

Without putting a scale rule to it, I'd say yes. I think I have one sitting around here somewhere. If I find it, I'll give it a once-over and report in.

David Thompson


drgwrail
 

--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 7/13/14, Kevin csxt5555@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Seley Hopper ca. 1944
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Date: Sunday, July 13, 2014, 2:58 PM


 I can clearly remember a few Seley hoppers going north on the D&H around 1944. Probably loaded with bituminous for loco fuel.

Only reseaon I cn rmember them so well ws the curious (to me) chains and pulleys for holding the hopper doors closed.

Chuck Yungkurth
Louisville CO









Seeing that Sealy hopper got me thinking.
 What other roads beside Southern had these type
cars?
Kevin
Sprayberry

Sent from my
iPhone
On Jul 13, 2014, at 3:43
PM, "rwitt_2000@...
[STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
wrote:
















 






Also from the Columbus, Georgia photos is a
"Seley" hopper no doubt in ash service.

1944
-- Columbus, Georgia (132 photos) - Don Strack



1944
-- Columbus, Georgia (132 photos) - Don Strack
Columbus,
Georgia



View on donstrack.smugmug.com


Preview by Yahoo
 Regards,

Bob Witt
























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David
 

There is a nice broadside photo of K-3 80543 in Bill Griffin's ACL book, p.191. Aside from that, they generally show up in the background of photos taken at engine terminals before 1940. These were shorter, 2-bay, 40-ton cars. The AB&C cars became ACL 84000-84209, but those were almost gone by 1950.

David Thompson


Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 



Is the F&C kit accurate for the Southern's steel end version?  I made a lot of assumptions in the past when purchasing kits, and now, after a few months on this list, I'm questioning a lot more than I used to do.

Dave Bott

 
Hi Dave
 
Yes - good to go - nice little kits and accurate and remarkably easy to build.  Scribing the insides and fitting weights to them is a bit of a challenge if you want empties, but that's about the worst thing I can say.
 
Do you have a copy of the article published in the old SHRS Southern Rails about 20-25 years ago?
 
Aidrian


Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


As far as I can tell, these are ex Island Creek in 4-12 and possibly nee N&W 57450-59949 class HJ. Not sure what the IC series was, possibly 6000-6199? HJ had steel underframes.
 
Eric N.

Thanks Ben!
 
My 1918-1922 C&O FC diagram sheet 602 for C&O 55-ton nos. 20810-20999 series hopper-bottom gondola cars blt by South Baltimore Car and Foundry in 7-1906 thru 7-1907 only mentioned their Bettendorf trucks (versus arch-bar).  Usually, steel center sills are mentioned only on cars originally blt w/o them. 
 
Wooden HBGs stayed around on the C&O in iron ore and limestone service from branch lines to the blast furnaces through WW One.  They did keep them segregated from those all-steel "battleships" as reported in the newspapers.  The only time they stayed in C&O yards was when the tracks in the furnace yards got to bad that they were afraid to take a "heavy" older 2-8-0 into the yard.  Tipple side tracks at the mines were also problematic.
 
A Kresse

 

Al Kresse asked:

"Did [Seley hoppers] have steel center sills?"

Yes.

Ben Hom



water.kresse@...
 

Thanks Eric,
 
The pix of C&O 20855 bleed through and Island Creek is consistent with the letters bleeding through and they have four digit numbers starting with "6".
 
Al Kresse


From: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
To: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 7:36:25 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

 



As far as I can tell, these are ex Island Creek in 4-12 and possibly nee N&W 57450-59949 class HJ. Not sure what the IC series was, possibly 6000-6199? HJ had steel underframes.
 
Eric N.

Thanks Ben!
 
My 1918-1922 C&O FC diagram sheet 602 for C&O 55-ton nos. 20810-20999 series hopper-bottom gondola cars blt by South Baltimore Car and Foundry in 7-1906 thru 7-1907 only mentioned their Bettendorf trucks (versus arch-bar).  Usually, steel center sills are mentioned only on cars originally blt w/o them. 
 
Wooden HBGs stayed around on the C&O in iron ore and limestone service from branch lines to the blast furnaces through WW One.  They did keep them segregated from those all-steel "battleships" as reported in the newspapers.  The only time they stayed in C&O yards was when the tracks in the furnace yards got to bad that they were afraid to take a "heavy" older 2-8-0 into the yard.  Tipple side tracks at the mines were also problematic.
 
A Kresse

 

Al Kresse asked:


"Did [Seley hoppers] have steel center sills?"

Yes.

Ben Hom




Ray Breyer
 

Seeing that Sealy hopper got me thinking.  What other roads beside Southern had these type cars?
Kevin Sprayberry
 
In the 1940s? A few:
 
AB&C
ACL (ex-AB&C)
B&O
CP&A
D&H
GB&W
GM&O
L&HR
L&N
N&W (in company service only after 1926)
NYO&W
 
The ACL cars made it to 1950, the GM&O cars to 1951, and the D&H and Southern cars made it to right around 1960 (the D&H rebuilt their cars in the mid-1930s, so they didn't look much like Seley hoppers).
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Ray Breyer
 

Seley hoppers in general were rostered by a healthy assortment of railroads in the early 20th century:
N&W, Virginian, C&O, Southern, B&O, ACL, SAL, Frisco, Rock Island, D&H, O&W, etc.
If you're asking about the specific steel-end version ordered by Southern in the 1920s, the only other
buyer that comes to mind is AB&C.
David Thompson
 
The M&O cars also had steel ends, and seem to be exact copies of the Southern's cars (the AB&A cars aren't quite, and have heap shields on their steel ends). The M&O cars passed to the GM&O in 1938, and stayed on the Go-Mo's roster until 1951-1952.
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Ray Breyer
 

Did they have steel center sills?
Al Kresse
 
Yes. ALL Seley-designed freight cars had steel underframes (after 1899), and that's one of the primary spotting features of a Seley car. Seley didn't just design steel SIDE structural members, but integrated steel components for the entire car.
 
See the 1903 Car Builder's Dictionary for a N&W Seley general arrangement drawing, the 1909 CBD for a D&H car, and the January, 1910 Franklin Institute Magazine (Google Books), pages 278-295 for several photos of Seley designed cars without their wood sheathing. All three should give you a pretty good picture of how extensive and progressive Charles Seley's car designs were for the time, and why he's the grandfather of "modern" freight car design.
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL