Flatcar deck color


Fran Giacoma
 

All - I purchased a Bachman 52' N&W flatcar for use at the interchange on my B&O Shenandoah SD layout. The simulated wood deck is painted flat black like the rest of the car. Given the built date on the car is 5-56 and the setting for my layout is fall 1956, what would be the actual color of the deck? It just does not look right as it is now. Thanks.

Fran Giacoma 


Benjamin Hom
 

Fran Giacoma asked:
"I purchased a Bachman[n] 52' N&W flatcar for use at the interchange on my B&O Shenandoah SD layout. The simulated wood deck is painted flat black like the rest of the car. Given the built date on the car is 5-56 and the setting for my layout is fall 1956, what would be the actual color of the deck? It just does not look right as it is now."

Builders photos of N&W Class F-3 (built June 1953) from the Virginia Tech Norfolk Southern collection:
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2473.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2549.jpeg

Unfortunately, they're in black and white and don't give you a conclusive answer, but the decks are definitely not a light "fresh" lumber color.


Ben Hom


Fran Giacoma
 

Thanks Ben for the two great pics. I'll just lightly weather it as I agree with you that they do not have that 'light "fresh" lumber color' look even in the B&W photos.

Fran Giacoma


 

Fran
If the cars aren't new &/or fresh out of the paint shop, the decks show whatever USE & ABUSE from the loads being carried. After any use at all, the decks were littered w/ trash, stains, etc, etc, etc. .And no great care was given during loading/unloading either. In the real world no one ever worried about what flat car decks looked like after use, so modelers shouldn't worry about it either.


destorzek@...
 

Three possibilities for flatcar decks:

1) Natural wood, typically Oak, Douglas Fir, or Southern Yellow pine. The first two are considerably darker than our model stripwood, with a pinkish or redish cast. Yellow pine is, well, yellow. All of these weathered to a silver gray in just a year or so.

2) Treated wood, which in the steam era meant creosote. Initially dark brown or oily black when new, these eventually weathered to a lighter gray, but always darker than natural wood.

3) Paint.

Since in the B&W builders photo Ben cited there is absolutely no tonal difference between the upward facing surfaces of the wood, the cast steel bolster and draft sill, and the bolt heads pulled into the wood, I surmise that this deck is painted.Since we know the car is black, the deck must also be black. Yes, it will eventually lose its paint, but not likely in the first year. Scrapes and gouges are a different story.

Dennis (who spent way too much time laying those black boards) Storzek


Bruce Smith
 

And let me add, as we have discussed here previously, the use of these materials varied by railroad and location. So for example, the PRR used untreated oak, whereas the AT&SF used creosote treated pine.  Models should reflect this variation ;)

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."


On Sep 16, 2014, at 9:16 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Three possibilities for flatcar decks:

1) Natural wood, typically Oak, Douglas Fir, or Southern Yellow pine. The first two are considerably darker than our model stripwood, with a pinkish or redish cast. Yellow pine is, well, yellow. All of these weathered to a silver gray in just a year or so.

2) Treated wood, which in the steam era meant creosote. Initially dark brown or oily black when new, these eventually weathered to a lighter gray, but always darker than natural wood.

3) Paint.

Since in the B&W builders photo Ben cited there is absolutely no tonal difference between the upward facing surfaces of the wood, the cast steel bolster and draft sill, and the bolt heads pulled into the wood, I surmise that this deck is painted.Since we know the car is black, the deck must also be black. Yes, it will eventually lose its paint, but not likely in the first year. Scrapes and gouges are a different story.

Dennis (who spent way too much time l! aying those black boards) Storzek 



Benjamin Hom
 

lajrmdlr@... (didn't sign post) wrote:


"In the real world no one ever worried about what flat car decks looked like after use, so modelers shouldn't worry about it either."

That's like saying "in the real world no one ever worried about cars getting dirty so modelers shouldn't worry about weathering either."


Ben Hom


Tim O'Connor
 

From a 1960's photo of an N&W flat car deck, it appears that the boards
were treated with creosote -- and why waste paint on them? The steel was
most likely painted top and bottom before the deck was applied, just as
box car underframes were painted before the unpainted and untreated floors
were installed. Creosote decks weathered differently than untreated decks
and as Bruce points out, probably different woods (softwood/hardwood) also
weathered differently.

A good way to represent the N&W model as new might be to add satin/gloss
to the steel and use a flat coat on the wood -- since the creosoted wood is
less shiny than steel.

It's distressing how hard it is to find good flat car deck pictures, especially
new cars. I have hundreds of images of box car roofs, but very few flat cars.
It's like photographers saw a flat car, and turned away.

Tim O'Connor


 

Ben
Those last words are all your interpretation of my words, but they aren't at all what was meant by my words.
Andy Jackson
Bellflower CA


Benjamin Hom
 

Andy Jackson wrote:


"Those last words are all your interpretation of my words, but they aren't at all what was meant by my words."

So educate us! What exactly DID you mean?


Ben Hom


 

."And no great care was given during loading/unloading either. In the real world no one ever worried about what flat car decks looked like after use, so modelers shouldn't worry about it either."

My intent was to say a modeler can do nothing wrong w/ weathering. There's a very good probability it has happened in the real world. That was my experience in my conductor days.. 


Steve SANDIFER
 

I have been through my photo collection. Unless the car is new, the decking appears to be weathered gray. The same weathered gray a old cross ties or even my cedar fence.



__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ

Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 10:04 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Flatcar deck color





."And no great care was given during loading/unloading either. In the real world no one ever worried about what flat car decks looked like after use, so modelers shouldn't worry about it either."

My intent was to say a modeler can do nothing wrong w/ weathering. There's a very good probability it has happened in the real world. That was my experience in my conductor days..





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

Tangent alert...

Is the tractor like vehicle at the top of the second image a form of track mobile / car mover?

The wheel configuration looks like it would allow two wheels inside the gage and two outside.

Thanks

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio

Sent from my mobile

On Sep 15, 2014, at 7:57 PM, "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Fran Giacoma asked:
"I purchased a Bachman[n] 52' N&W flatcar for use at the interchange on my B&O Shenandoah SD layout. The simulated wood deck is painted flat black like the rest of the car. Given the built date on the car is 5-56 and the setting for my layout is fall 1956, what would be the actual color of the deck? It just does not look right as it is now."

Builders photos of N&W Class F-3 (built June 1953) from the Virginia Tech Norfolk Southern collection:
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2473.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2549.jpeg

Unfortunately, they're in black and white and don't give you a conclusive answer, but the decks are definitely not a light "fresh" lumber color.


Ben Hom



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Posted by: Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
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Yahoo Groups Links


William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hi Matt & Group,

I believe what you are seeing is the aft end of a heavy duty forklift. Use as a car mover might have been possible but not its specific main duty.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Sep 19, 2014, at 5:32 PM, Matt Goodman goodman312@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Tangent alert...

Is the tractor like vehicle at the top of the second image a form of track mobile / car mover?

The wheel configuration looks like it would allow two wheels inside the gage and two outside. 

Thanks

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio

Sent from my mobile

On Sep 15, 2014, at 7:57 PM, "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Fran Giacoma asked:
"I purchased a Bachman[n] 52' N&W flatcar for use at the interchange on my B&O Shenandoah SD layout. The simulated wood deck is painted flat black like the rest of the car. Given the built date on the car is 5-56 and the setting for my layout is fall 1956, what would be the actual color of the deck? It just does not look right as it is now."

Builders photos of N&W Class F-3 (built June 1953) from the Virginia Tech Norfolk Southern collection:
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2473.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2549.jpeg

Unfortunately, they're in black and white and don't give you a conclusive answer, but the decks are definitely not a light "fresh" lumber color.

Ben Hom

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Posted by: Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
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Yahoo Groups Links



Steve SANDIFER
 

A fork-lift I believe. .


Sent by Steve Sandifer via the Samsung Galaxy S™III


-------- Original message --------
From: "Matt Goodman goodman312@... [STMFC]"
Date:09/19/2014 7:32 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Flatcar deck color

 

Tangent alert...

Is the tractor like vehicle at the top of the second image a form of track mobile / car mover?

The wheel configuration looks like it would allow two wheels inside the gage and two outside.

Thanks

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio

Sent from my mobile

On Sep 15, 2014, at 7:57 PM, "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Fran Giacoma asked:
"I purchased a Bachman[n] 52' N&W flatcar for use at the interchange on my B&O Shenandoah SD layout. The simulated wood deck is painted flat black like the rest of the car. Given the built date on the car is 5-56 and the setting for my layout is fall 1956, what would be the actual color of the deck? It just does not look right as it is now."

Builders photos of N&W Class F-3 (built June 1953) from the Virginia Tech Norfolk Southern collection:
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2473.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2549.jpeg

Unfortunately, they're in black and white and don't give you a conclusive answer, but the decks are definitely not a light "fresh" lumber color.

Ben Hom

------------------------------------
Posted by: Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Greg Martin
 

Looks to me to be a Gerlinger Fork Lift but it would be nicer to have a closer shot.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
In a message dated 9/19/2014 5:32:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:

Tangent alert...

Is the tractor like vehicle at the top of the second image a form of track mobile / car mover?

The wheel configuration looks like it would allow two wheels inside the gage and two outside.

Thanks

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio