RPM etc Display Table Height?


aaejj2j
 

Can someone help me with information or a source of the method of extending the height of the display tables, e.g. at Naperville/Lisle RPM/Sunshine please?
I think I remember an article on use of plastic tubes to extend the table height, but I certainly do not remember where I found it. I want it to incorporate at our local NMRA Division meets.
Thank you,
Tyrone Johnsen
Rockford, IL
tyroneDOTjohnsenAThotmailDOTcom



Richard Townsend
 

I've seen it done with short lengths of PVC pipe from the hardware store. Just be sure to get a big enough inside diameter pipe. It's a cheap and easy solution. There can be stability issues, however.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: tyrone.johnsen@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Nov 17, 2014 3:33 pm
Subject: [STMFC] RPM etc Display Table Height?

 
Can someone help me with information or a source of the method of extending the height of the display tables, e.g. at Naperville/Lisle RPM/Sunshine please?
I think I remember an article on use of plastic tubes to extend the table height, but I certainly do not remember where I found it. I want it to incorporate at our local NMRA Division meets.
Thank you,
Tyrone Johnsen
Rockford, IL
tyroneDOTjohnsenAThotmailDOTcom


Douglas Harding
 

Tyrone, don’t recall any article, but it appears to be a simple process. Get some 1-1/2” PVC plumbing pipe. Cut four pieces to a set length, for each table. Slip over legs of the table.

 

As I deal with the types of tables quite often, a few things you need to know.

1)      Most leg assemblies are made of ¾” pipe and have a plastic stop or metal slider on the end. You need a pipe with inside diameter large enough to accommodate the stop or slider.

2)      Most tables are 29/30” high, determine the finished height desired, cut your extensions allowing at least an additional 4” to slip over table leg. Some designs I have seen cut the pipe extension longer and then cut a slot in one side to accommodate the crossbar on the table leg. This will keep the extension pipe from rotating which would be desired if you cut the bottom of the pipe at an angle to better sit on the floor. The amount of angle may vary depending on the manufacturer’s design of the leg assembly.

3)      Table leg assemblies vary. The type that works with the PVC pipe extensions is the style that looks like an upside down U. Be aware that different manufactures have different specs for their U design. You might find a 4” leg on one table, while a 5” or even 6” might exist on others. The flat style will not work. And the flare or extended (which has no bend and the cross bar is much higher) will require a much longer extension, or some form of stop inside your extension pipe. A bolt through the pipe at the desired height will work as a stop.

 

I just checked the tables at the church and we have two different kinds with two different leg assemblies. The old tables have the typical U shape the legs are 4” to the cross bar. The new tables have legs that are 3” then they taper inward to the cross bar which sits 7” above the floor.

 

For a viewing height of 48”, cut the pipe at 22” allowing for 4” for the table legs. If you will be dealing with different tables you might want to drill a hole through the pipe at 4” from one end and insert a bolt. This will prevent a longer tapered leg from sliding down into the pipe.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 5:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] RPM etc Display Table Height?

 

 

Can someone help me with information or a source of the method of extending the height of the display tables, e.g. at Naperville/Lisle RPM/Sunshine please?
I think I remember an article on use of plastic tubes to extend the table height, but I certainly do not remember where I found it. I want it to incorporate at our local NMRA Division meets.
Thank you,
Tyrone Johnsen
Rockford, IL
tyroneDOTjohnsenAThotmailDOTcom

 


golden1014
 

Regarding the table extensions for RPM meets...

It sounds cheap to "just go buy some lengths of PVC pipe", but it's not. Lowe's sells short lengths (two or three-foot extension) for three bucks each.  Multiply by four, then by 40 tables.  We considered this for St. Louis RPM but we got up to the $500-$600 range and that put an end to that.  

Instead, we have them at sitting height and rent fifty chairs for $75. Besides, people like to sit.

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL


Mikebrock
 

Tyrone Johnsen writes:


"Can someone help me with information or a source of the method of extending the height of the display tables, e.g. at Naperville/Lisle RPM/Sunshine please?"

Without going into details at this time, we cut our own PVC extension tubes at Cocoa Beach.

Mike Brock
Prototype Rails Bossman


jon miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 11/18/2014 7:17 AM, golden1014@... [STMFC] wrote:
Lowe's sells short lengths (two or three-foot extension) for three bucks each.


    Never buy short lengths of PVC, get 10' or 20' and cut.

-- 

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Spen Kellogg <spninetynine@...>
 

On 11/18/2014 8:17 AM, golden1014@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Regarding the table extensions for RPM meets...


It sounds cheap to "just go buy some lengths of PVC pipe", but it's not. Lowe's sells short lengths (two or three-foot extension) for three bucks each.  Multiply by four, then by 40 tables.  We considered this for St. Louis RPM but we got up to the $500-$600 range and that put an end to that.  

Instead, we have them at sitting height and rent fifty chairs for $75. Besides, people like to sit.

Good for you, John. The other added advantage is that little kids can see a whole lot better. The HO SIG of the Boulder Model Railroad Club (CO) is also low for that very reason. Hard on the backs of us old farts when we have to go inside the layout, but good for the kids.

Spen Kellogg


 

Except that a 10¹ 1/2² PVC pipe is less than $3.00. Not sure what size
you¹re buying, but the guy who said to cut it yourself was right.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 at 12:01 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RPM etc Display Table Height?









On 11/18/2014 8:17 AM, golden1014@... [STMFC] wrote:





Regarding the table extensions for RPM meets...




It sounds cheap to "just go buy some lengths of PVC pipe", but it's not.
Lowe's sells short lengths (two or three-foot extension) for three bucks each.
Multiply by four, then by 40 tables. We considered this for St. Louis RPM but
we got up to the $500-$600 range and that put an end to that.




Instead, we have them at sitting height and rent fifty chairs for $75.
Besides, people like to sit.


Good for you, John. The other added advantage is that little kids can see a
whole lot better. The HO SIG of the Boulder Model Railroad Club (CO) is also
low for that very reason. Hard on the backs of us old farts when we have to
go inside the layout, but good for the kids.

Spen Kellogg


Clark Propst
 

I believe Mark Fedderson made the ones used at Naperville. Just giving credit, if it’s do?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Spen Kellogg wrote, regarding table height at shows and suggesting that the extensions to raise the tables are not really needed:

 

The other added advantage is that little kids can see a whole lot better.

 

Yup, sure can.  They can REACH them a lot more easily too.  And the parents (if they’re there) seldom  say more than “Johnny, please don’t touch that.”

 

Most of the meets where models are displayed as they are at Cocoa or Naperville are predominantly adult attendees, many of whom are getting “old.”  Old folks don’t much like bending down to see the models, and once seated, may not be anxious to rise and move along.

 

Schuyler

 


Tony Thompson
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

 
Yup, sure can.  They can REACH them a lot more easily too.  And the parents (if they’re there) seldom  say more than “Johnny, please don’t touch that.”

     If only. Sometimes what you would hear is, "Oh, Johnny, you shouldn't have done that." And then they walk away quickly.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

Another issue for us older attendees is trifocals. I spent a lot of time on my knees at Collinsville trying to see model details in the right lens of my glasses. Chair weren’t always available for the reason stated below. Maybe a contractor could be persuaded to donate surplus PVC pipe, or vendors could chip in toward that goal instead of door prizes one year. Make it a Richard Hendrickson Memorial Fund. If 500 people sent a dollar or 100 people sent five dollars, the funds would be available.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 8:31 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [SPAM]RE: [STMFC] RPM etc Display Table Height?

 

 

Spen Kellogg wrote, regarding table height at shows and suggesting that the extensions to raise the tables are not really needed:

 

The other added advantage is that little kids can see a whole lot better.

 

Yup, sure can.  They can REACH them a lot more easily too.  And the parents (if they’re there) seldom  say more than “Johnny, please don’t touch that.”

 

Most of the meets where models are displayed as they are at Cocoa or Naperville are predominantly adult attendees, many of whom are getting “old.”  Old folks don’t much like bending down to see the models, and once seated, may not be anxious to rise and move along.

 

Schuyler


arved_grass
 

Maybe a "kickstarter" campaign?

With the discussion of Tri-focals, I'm now tempted to bring my Optivisor to Cocoa Beach!

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@... or Arved@...
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 11/18/14, 'Nelson Moyer' ku0a@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Subject: RE: [STMFC] RPM etc Display Table Height?
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2014, 9:59 PM

Another issue for us
older attendees is trifocals. I spent a lot of time on my
knees at Collinsville trying to see model details in the
right lens of my glasses. Chair weren’t always available
for the reason stated below. Maybe a contractor could be
persuaded to donate surplus PVC pipe, or vendors could chip
in toward that goal instead of door prizes one year. Make it
a Richard Hendrickson Memorial Fund. If 500 people sent a
dollar or 100 people sent five dollars, the funds would be
available.  Nelson
Moyer


Allen Rueter
 

What if modelers brought 4 pvc pipes each, and made the diameter large enough to slide there models into! well at least N or HO.
 
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


np328
 


Not to hijack this thread however...

 

I as a middle aged person have come to appreciate raised display tables.

 

     Also - I do not believe the future of our hobby lies with the little tykes. Don't get me wrong, my wife and I purchase books and T shirts of a railroad nature for both our nieces and nephews in order to indoctrinate them whenever we can.

 

     However, after keeping a close eye on attendance numbers of children and even teenagers, studying parents and children at a distance  both at at some conventions I have chaired, and over the last 15 years at meets, I have come to think that unless a parent is very heavily involved in the hobby, any younger ones will be drawn off to Angry Birds and later perhaps the other games like we see advertised on these pages.

 

     I think - and this is only my opinion, the ones the hobby (and we) should be looking to are the thirty somethings whose lives have started to settle in some manner and are looking for a reason to get involved in society beyond where they were prior.

 

     And if you accept that premise, raising the tables is the right thing to do.

 

     Raising the tables may force the parents to lift them, however at the recent MilwaukeeTrainfest I observed more than one small child carting his own stepstool or ladder around. And their seemingly boundless energy did not seem to be affected by carrying it.

 

     So to bring this around, I would petition that these table riser pipes be figured as a one time expense and then you have them. That is what my historical society did years ago. An extra dollar on the gate should cover this.

 

    Also, I feel that - the people who are kind enough to bring and display models - feel more comfortable and secure with the models being raised up. The dollar amount on one table of diplays can be considerable. 

 

 And again - as Schuyler stated, it is easier for the majority of the attendees to see the detail and appreciate the work involved.   

 

Jim Dick - Roseville, MN



---In STMFC@..., <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote :

Spen Kellogg wrote, regarding table height at shows and suggesting that the extensions to raise the tables are not really needed:

 

The other added advantage is that little kids can see a whole lot better.

 

Yup, sure can.  They can REACH them a lot more easily too.  And the parents (if they’re there) seldom  say more than “Johnny, please don’t touch that.”

 

Most of the meets where models are displayed as they are at Cocoa or Naperville are predominantly adult attendees, many of whom are getting “old.”  Old folks don’t much like bending down to see the models, and once seated, may not be anxious to rise and move along.

 

Schuyler

 


Charles Hladik
 

    Don't forget that the "risers" need to be stored. Run a length of rope through them and tie them to the table. If renting tables tie a bunch together so they don't get lost.
 
Chuck Hladik
 
In a message dated 11/19/2014 8:34:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:

 


Not to hijack this thread however...

 

I as a middle aged person have come to appreciate raised display tables.

 

     Also - I do not believe the future of our hobby lies with the little tykes. Don't get me wrong, my wife and I purchase books and T shirts of a railroad nature for both our nieces and nephews in order to indoctrinate them whenever we can.

 

     However, after keeping a close eye on attendance numbers of children and even teenagers, studying parents and children at a distance  both at at some conventions I have chaired, and over the last 15 years at meets, I have come to think that unless a parent is very heavily involved in the hobby, any younger ones will be drawn off to Angry Birds and later perhaps the other games like we see advertised on these pages.

 

     I think - and this is only my opinion, the ones the hobby (and we) should be looking to are the thirty somethings whose lives have started to settle in some manner and are looking for a reason to get involved in society beyond where they were prior.

 

     And if you accept that premise, raising the tables is the right thing to do.

 

     Raising the tables may force the parents to lift them, however at the recent MilwaukeeTrainfest I observed more than one small child carting his own stepstool or ladder around. And their seemingly boundless energy did not seem to be affected by carrying it.

 

     So to bring this around, I would petition that these table riser pipes be figured as a one time expense and then you have them. That is what my historical society did years ago. An extra dollar on the gate should cover this.

    Also, I feel that - the people who are kind enough to bring and display models - feel more comfortable and secure with the models being raised up. The dollar amount on one table of diplays can be considerable. 

 

 And again - as Schuyler stated, it is easier for the majority of the attendees to see the detail and appreciate the work involved.   

 

Jim Dick - Roseville, MN



---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Spen Kellogg wrote, regarding table height at shows and suggesting that the extensions to raise the tables are not really needed:

 

The other added advantage is that little kids can see a whole lot better.

 

Yup, sure can.  They can REACH them a lot more easily too.  And the parents (if they’re there) seldom  say more than “Johnny, please don’t touch that.”

 

Most of the meets where models are displayed as they are at Cocoa or Naperville are predominantly adult attendees, many of whom are getting “old.”  Old folks don’t much like bending down to see the models, and once seated, may not be anxious to rise and move along.

 

Schuyler

 


golden1014
 

Perhaps we should divide all the RPM Meets into two categories: High Table Meets, and Low Table Meets. We could call the meets "High-T" or "Low-T".  

"High-T" = No risk of Kids Messing with your Stuff (generally because no one under 40 is present)

"Low-T" = High risk of Kids Messing with your Stuff 

St. Louis, for example, would be a "Low-T" meet.  Unfortunately we have plenty of under-40 modelers in attendance which increases the risk of damage exponentially. Our youngest modeler--and he actually is a modeler, and paints and decals his own models per prototype photos--is 8 years old.  We even allow "kids" under 13 to get in FREE with a paid adult admission.  

Ironically...even though this is a Low-T/High Risk event we had 40 tables for models in 2014 and it wasn't enough. 

And...we've never had a single reported problem with all those pesky kids touching models.  Nevertheless, I'll spend $400-$500 on PVC pipe to reduce the risk, which also means I have to rent linen tables covers at $10/each to hide all that nastiness under the tables.  That's another $400-$500. 

I'll continue to pay for the 100 chairs and the $1M insurance policy (no kidding) to ensure your safety and convenience.

Disclaimer: Due to unforeseen expenses the admission at St. Louis just went up from $25 to $50.  See you on Aug 7 and 8, 2015.

John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL


Charles Hladik
 

John,
    If you got the local NMRA Division to co-sponsor the event you might qualify for the insurance, which I think runs $50.00.
    
    Here in Central Virginia we have more trouble with the "adults" messing with stuff than the kids. Even with a "barricade rope" at 3 feet away they still insist on looking with their hands. These are mostly college grads. In contrast, we used to do a show in the Ronceverte, West Virginia Armory. At that show we would start trains running on Saturday morning and could (did) walk downtown to the street fair and not a thing was touched. We didn't even put up a rope. A lot better upbringing.
Chuck Hladik
 
In a message dated 11/19/2014 11:44:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:

 

Perhaps we should divide all the RPM Meets into two categories: High Table Meets, and Low Table Meets. We could call the meets "High-T" or "Low-T".  

"High-T" = No risk of Kids Messing with your Stuff (generally because no one under 40 is present)

"Low-T" = High risk of Kids Messing with your Stuff 

St. Louis, for example, would be a "Low-T" meet.  Unfortunately we have plenty of under-40 modelers in attendance which increases the risk of damage exponentially. Our youngest modeler--and he actu ally is a modeler, and paints and decals his own models per prototype photos--is 8 years old.  We even allow "kids" under 13 to get in FREE with a paid adult admission.  

Ironically...even though this is a Low-T/High Risk event we had 40 tables for models in 2014 and it wasn't enough. 

And...we've never had a single reported problem with all those pesky kids touching models.  Nevertheless, I'll spend $400-$500 on PVC pipe to reduce the risk, which also means I have to rent linen tables covers at $10/each to hide all that nastiness under the tables.  That's another $400-$500. 

I'll continue to pa y for the 100 chairs and the $1M insurance policy (no kidding) to ensure your safety and convenience.

Disclaimer: Due to unforeseen expenses the admission at St. Louis just went up from $25 to $50.  See you on Aug 7 and 8, 2015.

John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL


Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...>
 

Purchase the PVC, cut the lengths needed and go to the trouble of elevating the tables! It is one of the single best improvements that RPM meets have instituted in recent years.  For the first time in memory, one could actually value and inspect models, -fine, average, or less-   at decent perspectives. It deserves to be a requirement for all self-respecting RPM meets.

As to children at RPM meets, h-mmm, lock them up in an adjoining room?

Sitting down can in many ways make it worse because of the inherent difficulties in trying to lower ones head.  Nelson Moyers mentions eye glasses.  Probably the majority of modelers above age 40 wear glasses, or are about to do so  (if not: just wait!), and a large percentage will be bi or tri focals.  In order for so many of these glasses wearers, they simply are unable to stoop or bend down enough actually see the model in either perspective or in focus- and it is very frustrating, if not downright painful.

As to Prototype Rails, we are so fortunate that Mike is retired, has loads of free time, has special skills in cutting PVC pipe to length (and joy in in the doing), and lastly that he personally and carefully installs the pipes around each and leg of the display tables.  Thanks, Mike!

Denny


Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento





Gerry Fitzgerald
 

Hi John,

I like the high table/low table approach and think it is a great way to go. If people can travel long distances with modules to various meets than many will hopefully also be able to bring along some PVC pipe!! I also assume this would be something that can brought along on a commercial aircraft with proper planning.

To be honest I think asking guys to bring four pieces of PVC pipe cut to whatever length is fine and certainly very reasonable. In fact as I recall, this is what the RPM movement is supposed to be about. People just sort of chipping in, showing up, and trying to be helpful, sharing their work and approaches and learning from others at the same time. You paid a fee because venues are not free and if the ticket price was high or higher… all the better as it kept the free doughnut/non-modeling/ always complaining guys at home. RPM was supposed to be about the models and learning about how to be a craftsman, not being in charge or wearing a stupid hat or vest.

I think asking guys to bring long their own pipe is fine and if they want to bring cloth and velcro they can do that too. If they bring their own pipe, perhaps they get a better spot in the hall. Perhaps you and your fellow St. Louis guys could put up a diagram with the lengths and where to put the cap for the table and people will follow through.

Gerard

Gerard J. Fitzgerald

Charlottesville, Virginia