Topics

embossed aluminium foil boxcar ends


Benjamin Scanlon
 

I have heard it suggested that where you need to make a rare end, such as a 7/7 reverse Murphy end, that one could take a master for a 'regular' 7/7 end and emboss it using heavy aluminium foil to create the inverse pattern needed.  


As I understand aluminium foil, it's kind of thin so it strikes me the end might be a bit fragile.


Has anyone done this and were the results satisfying?


Regards


Ben Scanlon

Tottenham Hale, UK




Bill Welch
 

Ben, Martin Lofton did essentially what you are suggesting with his 53'6" Greenville gondola kit wherein he provides relatively heavy and generous piece of aluminum sheet and a "mandregal" (my spelling is failing me this morning) or form into which the builder forms the car ends by going over the aluminum sheet a dull stylis or similar tool to render a lieral impression of the end. This went quickly and without a hitch with an excellent result. The modeler then used styrene strip for the Bulb Angle. In this case the form was the reverse of the end product, pardon the pun, which if we are in China, we could no longer do.

Bill


Robert kirkham
 

Sounds easy enough to draw and 3d print.  Do you have the necessary dimensions?  I.e.
- panel heights
- overall width
- bottom panel: amount of flat space below the lowest rib
- upper panel:  amount of flat space below the lowest rib
- how close do the tips of the ribs come to the sides
- slope of roof
- how wide is the end panel where it wraps around the sides (6”?)
 
Rob Kirkham
 
 

Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 1:13 AM
Subject: [STMFC] embossed aluminium foil boxcar ends
 


I have heard it suggested that where you need to make a rare end, such as a 7/7 reverse Murphy end, that one could take a master for a 'regular' 7/7 end and emboss it using heavy aluminium foil to create the inverse pattern needed.  


As I understand aluminium foil, it's kind of thin so it strikes me the end might be a bit fragile.


Has anyone done this and were the results satisfying?


Regards


Ben Scanlon

Tottenham Hale, UK




Charles Peck
 

Years ago I duplicated a boxcar door with copper foil. After forming it, I filled the backside with Duco cement for strength.
Good enough for me then, at least a lot better than nothing. 
Chuck Peck

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 4:13 AM, benjaminscanlon@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

I have heard it suggested that where you need to make a rare end, such as a 7/7 reverse Murphy end, that one could take a master for a 'regular' 7/7 end and emboss it using heavy aluminium foil to create the inverse pattern needed.  


As I understand aluminium foil, it's kind of thin so it strikes me the end might be a bit fragile.


Has anyone done this and were the results satisfying?


Regards


Ben Scanlon

Tottenham Hale, UK





Jeff Pellas <jppellas@...>
 

Although I've never tried that, I think that technique would work for "Inverse" Murphy ends ...and Buckeye ends.. but not Dreadnaught ends. I don't know of any true reverse Dreadnaught ends. Rather, Dreadnaught ends that are "indented" retain the same shape and pattern of protruding Dreadnaught ends. Maybe a more appropriate description would be "Inset" Dreadnaught ends. I have a project involving a Southern DS wood auto box and the ends are 3/3 "Reverse" Dreadnaught. Upon closely looking at these ends, I realized they're actually inset ends of a strange pattern. Hopefully this will make sense but if you count the ribs, each 3 rib section actually goes like this: 1/2 rib, 1 rib, 1 rib, 1 rib, 1/2 rib. So the 3/3 "Reverse" Dreadnaught ends are actually the same height as a standard 4/4 end. In order to model these ends, I have picked up a set of regular 5/5 Dreadnaught ends. I'll have to cut out each 5 rib section then file top, bottom and each side of the sections. I'll have to build frames for each rib section to be set into to achieve the "indented" (or reverse) aspect.       

Jeff
jppellas@...


-----Original Message-----
From: benjaminscanlon@... [STMFC] To: STMFC
Sent: Sat, Nov 29, 2014 4:14 am
Subject: [STMFC] embossed aluminium foil boxcar ends



I have heard it suggested that where you need to make a rare end, such as a 7/7 reverse Murphy end, that one could take a master for a 'regular' 7/7 end and emboss it using heavy aluminium foil to create the inverse pattern needed.  

As I understand aluminium foil, it's kind of thin so it strikes me the end might be a bit fragile.

Has anyone done this and were the results satisfying?

Regards

Ben Scanlon
Tottenham Hale, UK





Tim O'Connor
 

Ben

Sunshine called the form you use to make the end a "mandrel". You
don't use kitchen quality aluminum foil. You can buy thin, soft foil
in aluminum and copper, and I think it comes in different thicknesses.
I still have some copper foil I bought years ago.

I've never tried it but maybe you could resin cast the end in RTV rubber,
and use the mold as a mandrel?

Tim O'Connor

I have heard it suggested that where you need to make a rare end, such as a 7/7 reverse Murphy end, that one could take a master for a 'regular' 7/7 end and emboss it using heavy aluminium foil to create the inverse pattern needed.

As I understand aluminium foil, it's kind of thin so it strikes me the end might be a bit fragile.

Has anyone done this and were the results satisfying?

Regards
Ben Scanlon


Jon Miller
 

On 11/29/2014 9:59 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
You can buy thin, soft foil
in aluminum and copper, and I think it comes in different thicknesses.

    Never tried it but am thinking .005 (or .006/.007) would work in either copper or aluminum.

-- 

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Scott H. Haycock
 

K&S has a line of foils called "Create With Metal" that you can get in the dollhouse section of Hobby Lobby. I bought a roll 12" by 30" of 40 gauge (0.003") copper for flashing on structures. I suspect it would work in this application as well. I also think it could be used to patch X29 boxcars, and make gusset plates for outside braced boxcars as well, although I haven't tried these things.

Scott Haycock


 




    Never tried it but am thinking .005 (or .006/.007) would work in either copper or aluminum.

--

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS




spsalso
 

Surely, I can't be the only one who received one of these as a gift during the non-digital age:




Dan L. Merkel <danmerkel@...>
 

It was a long time ago but in an arts class I had to take in college, some of the kids worked on foil projects where they used a foil that was much, much thicker than even the heavy duty aluminmu foil that you get in a grocery store.  I’d guess that a well stocked craft store would have something like that used for foil art.  Someone else mentioned doing something similar with copper then filling the back with glue to give the finished part extra strength.  Sounds like a good idea.
 
dlm
-------------------------------------------------
Dan L. Merkel
Proud Member of the NKPHTS


Dan L. Merkel <danmerkel@...>
 

One more thought... that foil that they used was about the thickness of an aluminum foil pie pan.  Food service stores have large aluminum foil covers for serving pans.  If you got one that wasn’t bent up, that should work as well, and might be cheaper than a “craft” item.
-------------------------------------------------
Dan L. Merkel


Jon Miller
 

On 11/29/2014 1:16 PM, 'Dan L. Merkel' danmerkel@... [STMFC] wrote:
Food service stores have large aluminum foil covers for serving pans


��� I'm thinking that foil is harder than the craft type.

-- 

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Carl Gustafson
 

How about those foil pans that food comes in?

Carl "My name line is longer than my comment" Gustafson


Andy Carlson
 

The aluminum Martin provided was "Dead-Soft" which allows easy deformation. Most of the sugessted aluminum foils are of a hard variety, and will not hold much shape unless punched in a 20-ton press.

Brass is sold by the hardness also. You would want the softest available for our wished for purposes.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



 
How about those foil pans that food comes in?

Carl "My name line is longer than my comment" Gustafson



Charles Hladik
 

How about wine cork foil, twice the fun
Chuck Hladik
 

In a message dated 11/29/2014 5:56:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

How about those foil pans that food comes in?

Carl "My name line is longer than my comment" Gustafson


Tim O'Connor
 


Yes that has about the hardness that makes it easy to form, but I don't think you
would saving any money using it.

Tim O'


How about wine cork foil, twice the fun
Chuck Hladik


Benjamin Scanlon
 

Hi Rob


Sorry to take time in replying; owing to Yahoo's conversation format, I 'lost' your email for a couple of days.


I have no dimensions of the reverse Murphy end.  I know of no plan for the Georgia 'homebuilt' caboose that used it, my data is limited to only a couple of pictures.  There is a GA-WPR Yahoo group of course, but knowledge of these and other vehicles does not seem to exist in the group, and perhaps the blueprints were lost long ago. 


In this case, Justin May has told me that it is possible that the original boxcars built into these cabooses were GF&A cars.  (I had thought they might be GaRR 17000 series cars.) 


Regards


Ben Scanlon

London, England