the riddel of the rivets, was MDC 40-ft SD & DD steel boxcar


tyesac@...
 

I don't remember if was Charlie Slater or Frank Hodina that was telling me about that rivet harvesting process at a Naperville RPM years ago, but based on thier work, they've mastered the technique.     So I tried it: 
    It helps if you're either seriously near-sighted and have a reallly good magnifier lamp.
     
        A clean, light colored, work surface also helps   (not that green cutting pad thing)
        A sharp chisel blade to cleave off the rivits and a sharp (brand new) #11 blade to stab & place the rivet is needed
        Picking them up and placing them round side up is the tricky part.
        It's a good technique to place a few rivets in irregular places, not so good for long lines of very fine rivets
            (like the side seams on a  car side)
 
I used it first on scratch built Santa Fe Sk-3 sides to simulate the carraige bolt heads on the wood to steel intersections.
 
I've since modified my NWSL riveter to have and adjustable depth stop and jigs to run rivets consistently along an edge & true 90 to an edge.
 
That leaves us with the options of cut & glue, die pressed rivets, Tichy molded rivets, Archer decals & 3D printing.  Based on the skillset of the pattern maker it seems that the ability to "hand craft" a master to the equal of injected molded has arrived.
 
Tom Casey  
Tim wrote:
"Bill Welch is one of the best modelers I know, so if harvesting rivets
from blue box cars works for him, then I say leave well enough alone. :-)"

I have a car side pattern Bill did using harvested rivets, and it's spectacular. Castings from it can't be marketed because of dimensional variations in the resin kit it was intended to upgrade, but it's still a treat to work with such jewels. I have trouble maneuvering individual Archer rivets into position, and they ride on little squares of decal film. I can't imagine positioning and bonding individual harvested styrene rivets. I am in awe of those who can.

Tom Madden



-----Original Message-----
From: pullmanboss@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Dec 1, 2014 9:20 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] MDC 40-ft SD & DD steel boxcar

 
Tim wrote:
"Bill Welch is one of the best modelers I know, so if harvesting rivets
from blue box cars works for him, then I say leave well enough alone. :-)"

I have a car side pattern Bill did using harvested rivets, and it's spectacular. Castings from it can't be marketed because of dimensional variations in the resin kit it was intended to upgrade, but it's still a treat to work with such jewels. I have trouble maneuvering individual Archer rivets into position, and they ride on little squares of decal film. I can't imagine positioning and bonding individual harvested styrene rivets. I am in awe of those who can.

Tom Madden


Jim Betz
 

Good Morning (it's still raining here in San Jose),

Sooner or later every list has some posts from
"The Rivet Counters" ... this is one of the few
lists that I'm a member of that it makes some
sense/can have legs. Or does it? *G*
Or -should- it? A friend of mine usually says
something along the lines of "you have far too
much time on your hands if you are counting
rivets - or paying attention to the spacing and/or
location of the rivets" ...
I sort of agree with him in that the person working
on the model is the only one who is ever going to
notice "how many" or "how far apart are they" and
even (usually) "where they are located".

If you are doing mods that result in a 'nekked'
model then, of course, you need to add rivets.
What else would hold the car together?
- Jim

P.S. Is there a yahoo group for "Rivet Counters"?


O Fenton Wells
 

No Yahoo group Jim but I believe there are counselors who they can talk with to to find inner peace ;>).

--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Bruce Smith
 

Jim Betz asks:
P.S. Is there a yahoo group for "Rivet Counters"?

Why yes, it is called "The Steam Era Freight Car List". Perfect place for rivet counters!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Happily counting rivets in Auburn, AL


tyesac@...
 

And it's close relative: Passenger Car List!
 
Tom Casey


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Dec 4, 2014 10:59 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: the riddel of the rivets, was MDC 40-ft SD & DD steel boxcar

 
Jim Betz asks:
P.S. Is there a yahoo group for "Rivet Counters"?

Why yes, it is called "The Steam Era Freight Car List". Perfect place for rivet counters!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Happily counting rivets in Auburn, AL


Tim O'Connor
 

There is also the "resinfreightcars" discussion group, and P:48 modelers,
both of which seem populated with rivet counters. :-)

Tim O'Connor

Jim Betz asks:
P.S. Is there a yahoo group for "Rivet Counters"?

Why yes, it is called "The Steam Era Freight Car List". Perfect place for rivet counters!

Regards
Bruce Smith


Tony Thompson
 

Jim Betz wrote:

Sooner or later every list has some posts from "The Rivet Counters" ... this is one of the few lists that I'm a member of that it makes some sense/can have legs. Or does it? 

P.S. Is there a yahoo group for "Rivet Counters"?


      Richard Hendrickson used to sometimes wear at meetings a round lapel pin which said, "Rivets Count."

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Charles Peck
 

While there are several refuges where rivet counters may find solace in companionship,
the real esoterics are those who measure rivets.
Joe, "I'll need to use three quarter rivets on this job."
Bill, "Use five eights, Joe, to allow for the paint on them."
Joe, "Well sure, but I need cone head rivets, not round head."

Folks, I'm not Joe or Bill but I respect those of you who see yourselves in these words.
Chuck Peck 

On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 


There is also the "resinfreightcars" discussion group, and P:48 modelers,
both of which seem populated with rivet counters. :-)

Tim O'Connor

>Jim Betz asks:
>P.S. Is there a yahoo group for "Rivet Counters"?
>
>Why yes, it is called "The Steam Era Freight Car List". Perfect place for rivet counters!
>
>Regards
>Bruce Smith



rob.mclear3@...
 

Oh Boy! I have to get me one of them... 

Rob McLear


---In STMFC@..., <tony@...> wrote :

J
      Richard Hendrickson used to sometimes wear at meetings a round lapel pin which said, "Rivets Count."





Robert kirkham
 

and panel counters, and corrugation counters, and rivet row counters, and board counters . . . . . i.e. modelers

Rob Kirkham

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 8:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: the riddel of the rivets, was MDC 40-ft SD & DD steel boxcar

Jim Betz asks:
P.S. Is there a yahoo group for "Rivet Counters"?

Why yes, it is called "The Steam Era Freight Car List". Perfect place for rivet counters!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Happily counting rivets in Auburn, AL

------------------------------------
Posted by: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...>
------------------------------------


tyesac@...
 

I once gave a clinic that was subtitled "rivets count/count rivets!".  The reason being was that the clinic showed how to kitbash a car (a heavyweight diner) using  an existing plastic car.  At the time published plans were not available, however, I did have color photographs of both sides of the car taken on the same day.   The rivets on the prototype were basically my "scale ruler".   Later on, a published floor plan was avaialble, and I found out I was within 4" over all length on a 82' car.  
 
There are a lot of freight cars that have nothing but a general arrangement drawing or lettering diagram, but did get photographed, so, you're forced to count rivets to get an accurate model.  That is if the difference between a 10'-0" IH vs a 10'-6" car matters, which covers everyone on this list.
 
Otherwise, I think we'd still be running nothing more faithful to the prototype than three rail 027 toy trains with molded on grab irons that resemble scale book shelves.
 
Tom Casey   
and panel counters, and corrugation counters, and rivet row counters, and
board counters . . . . . i.e. modelers

Rob Kirkham

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 8:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: the riddel of the rivets, was MDC 40-ft SD & DD
steel boxcar

Jim Betz asks:
P.S. Is there a yahoo group for "Rivet Counters"?

Why yes, it is called "The Steam Era Freight Car List". Perfect place for
rivet counters!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Happily counting rivets in Auburn, AL




-----Original Message-----
From: Robert rdkirkham@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Dec 5, 2014 12:31 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: the riddel of the rivets, was MDC 40-ft SD & DD steel boxcar

 
and panel counters, and corrugation counters, and rivet row counters, and
board counters . . . . . i.e. modelers

Rob Kirkham

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 8:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: the riddel of the rivets, was MDC 40-ft SD & DD
steel boxcar

Jim Betz asks:
P.S. Is there a yahoo group for "Rivet Counters"?

Why yes, it is called "The Steam Era Freight Car List". Perfect place for
rivet counters!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Happily counting rivets in Auburn, AL

------------------------------------
Posted by: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...>
------------------------------------


Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


If you're making a model, counting rivets is a matter of personal preference.
If you're trying to project part of the car which is not visible (e.g. interior hopper bracing), counting rivets can help.
If you're doing historical research, sometimes counting rivets is the only option left when all else fails.
 
The latter applies to a current project where whether the top of the side posts is cut square and open or has is closed with a 3" taper speaks volumes when even though the official records are incomplete. I'm only responsible for finding a detail that does the job. Reality is responsible for how visible or invisible it is. Knowing that it is significant, I'd probably make an effort to get it right on a model as long as it wasn't too much trouble.
 
Eric N.