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  2. Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper

Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper

Bill Welch
 

I received an email today from Central Hobby Supply about a Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper. I have been underwhelmed by their previous subjects and have not paid attention if this prototype has been discussed here. Any opinions, thoughts about it accuracy please?


Bill Welch

 
Tim O'Connor
 

Richard said this (prototype) was coming down the pike although he never
revealed who was doing it. Yeah I agree BLI stuff has been underwhelming but
their NYC box car was kinda nice. Not Westerfield quality, but not drek like
the Atlas 1932 cars either.

Tim O'

I received an email today from Central Hobby Supply about a Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper. I have been underwhelmed by their previous subjects and have not paid attention if this prototype has been discussed here. Any opinions, thoughts about it accuracy please?
Bill Welch
Bill Welch
 

Sorry do not know what "drek" means but I like my Atlasundec Erie version just fine and thought the NYC  car was/is an abortion.

Bill Welch
Brian Carlson
 

I reviewed the car with respect to the Erie version on another list. I'll repost that when I get home around 10 pm. 
Brian Carlson. 


On Jan 8, 2015, at 5:08 PM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I received an email today from Central Hobby Supply about a Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper. I have been underwhelmed by their previous subjects and have not paid attention if this prototype has been discussed here. Any opinions, thoughts about it accuracy please?


Bill Welch

 
Tim O'Connor
 

To each his own, as the Yiddish would say (hint: drek is German/Yiddish)

Sorry do not know what "drek" means but I like my Atlasundec Erie version just fine and thought the NYC car was/is an abortion.

Bill Welch
Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 1/8/2015 3:11 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
To each his own, as the Yiddish would say (hint: drek is German/Yiddish)

    Gee Tim you made me look it up.

[dirt, trash, and Yiddish drek, excrement, both from Middle High German drec, dung, filth]

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS
pennsylvania1954
 

Tim--Do you really mean the Atlas 1932 ARA cars or did you intend to cite the Atlas rebuilds, which were truly awful? I found no significant disparaging comments on the 1932 cars in the archives here, and I found them quite good, appreciating Atlas efforts to do multiple correct configurations. Some might have required revised brake equipment locations, but isn't that we do here?

I agree about the BLI NYC steel cars; they are quite nice. Certainly they benefited from having Richard Hendrickson (and others here) involved.

Wow. We sure have come a long way from scraping ladders and grabs off Athearn and MDC boxcars.

Anxiously awaiting Brian's review of the hopper tonight. I have a B&O version waiting for weathering.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
Tim O'Connor
 

Steve

I thought Atlas only one did one car with multiple ends and roofs ... I don't
own any examples of either. I guess I was thinking of the disparaging comments
on the rebuilt cars.

Tim--Do you really mean the Atlas 1932 ARA cars or did you intend to cite the Atlas rebuilds, which were truly awful? I found no significant disparaging comments on the 1932 cars in the archives here, and I found them quite good, appreciating Atlas efforts to do multiple correct configurations. Some might have required revised brake equipment locations, but isn't that we do here?

I agree about the BLI NYC steel cars; they are quite nice. Certainly they benefited from having Richard Hendrickson (and others here) involved.

Wow. We sure have come a long way from scraping ladders and grabs off Athearn and MDC boxcars.

Anxiously awaiting Brian's review of the hopper tonight. I have a B&O version waiting for weathering.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
Rich C
 

I have 2 undecorated 1932 cars from Atlas. 1 that matches up well for an SAL B-6 (except brake wheel) and the Viking roof, Dreadnaught end version that matches up well for the Nickel Plate. I have not found anything wrong with either.

Rich Christie


On Thursday, January 8, 2015 8:04 PM, "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Steve

I thought Atlas only one did one car with multiple ends and roofs ... I don't
own any examples of either. I guess I was thinking of the disparaging comments
on the rebuilt cars.

>Tim--Do you really mean the Atlas 1932 ARA cars or did you intend to cite the Atlas rebuilds, which were truly awful? I found no significant disparaging comments on the 1932 cars in the archives here, and I found them quite good, appreciating Atlas efforts to do multiple correct configurations. Some might have required revised brake equipment locations, but isn't that we do here?
>
>I agree about the BLI NYC steel cars; they are quite nice. Certainly they benefited from having Richard Hendrickson (and others here) involved.
>
>Wow. We sure have come a long way from scraping ladders and grabs off Athearn and MDC boxcars.
>
>Anxiously awaiting Brian's review of the hopper tonight. I have a B&O version waiting for weathering.
>
>Steve Hoxie
>Pensacola FL
John King
 


See RPC #4. Broadway did one of the 1929 design versions of the quad hopper.  If you are modeling MP, MILW or MKT you are in luck.  The other 1929 owners had some details that were different.

B&O had the earlier 1926 design. For B&O, I have reluctantly concluded that scraping the ladders off the Athearn car is still the least bad alternative.   The undecorated cars unfortunately have a thick coat of paint that will make adding details such as the external doubler strips (RPC #4 description) over the bolsters a challenge.   Lots of other details that need to be changed for B&O, too.

John King
pennsylvania1954
 

Tim--Just considering boxcars, we have a lot of different models to keep straight. It is a good time to be modeling freight cars!

Have fun.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
Dave Parker
 

I am anxious to see Brian's review (hint) but, based on the photos, the BLI hopper could well be the "least bad alternative" for the B&M hoppers delivered in 1929-30.  There is certainly some work to be done, and the lettering is much too late for my needs, but they look better than the existing alternatives (Athearn, AHM, MTH, etc.).

I am intrigued by the 6-spring trucks, which have heretofore been problematic.

I note in passing that they only seem to available in 4-packs, so I will probably have to commit to see one in the flesh.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA
Brian Carlson
 

This is the slightly modified review I posted to the EL mailing list (the list covers the Erie, DL&W and EL) on 12/26.  Keep in mind this review was done in reference to the Erie model that I could have used.

 

I finally had more time to look into these hoppers. These were an AMC design car built in 1930. The Erie and C&O had similar cars. These appear to be patterned after Erie's 39000-series 4-bay cars, which were built in 1930 by Standard Steel Car.  The original series was 39000-39799, 800 cars. There were still over 500 cars in the July 1957 ORER, The Erie had begun to sell their cars off to shortlines in the mid to late 1950's.. By January 1959 there were 258 cars and by January 1961 94 cars. RPC 5 covers these cars.

 

Now for the Broadway Model. The pre-production samples on the BLI site match the details of the B&M, MP, Milwaukee and MKT cars best. This is unfortunate since it would have made more sense to follow the B&O which had 7000 of these cars. I can't say for certain which road they used for prototype since there are subtle differences in the side sheathing, doubler plates, end panel taper, ladders, hand brakes, trucks. A close up photo of the trucks on the BLI site show them to be patterned after Symington trucks so B&M and MILW prototypes seem likely.

 

The differences in the model and the Erie cars include trucks, doubler plates and ladders.  It's possible the end taper is wrong too. Also, IF the model is based on the B&M or MilW cars the IL and side height will be incorrect. The Erie cars had an IL of 41'-2 7/8"  and an side height if 10'-3 3/8"  The BM and MILW cars were 40'-5" and 10'-8: respectively. 

 

All, is not lost though, since the BM sold some cars to the DL&W in the mid 50's. I am not sure how long they lasted, and I've no interest in modeling one so someone else can look up that information.

 

I had originally planned to get a 4 pack for my 1957 era Erie, so I was planning to do this comparison anyway. I am not sure I'll buy them now, the doubler plates are obvious and hard to correct, and swapping out BLI trucks is often a pain. The old Athearn quad, which is based on the B&O may be a better starting point for Erie cars. I'll have to pick up one at a swap meet to see.

 

Note many dealers will break up the 4 packs.

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY
Tim O'Connor
 

Brian thanks for the thorough review. What is a doubler plate?

Tim O'Connor

This is the slightly modified review I posted to the EL mailing list (the list covers the Erie, DL&W and EL) on 12/26. Keep in mind this review was done in reference to the Erie model that I could have used.

I finally had more time to look into these hoppers. These were an AMC design car built in 1930. The Erie and C&O had similar cars. These appear to be patterned after Erie's 39000-series 4-bay cars, which were built in 1930 by Standard Steel Car. The original series was 39000-39799, 800 cars. There were still over 500 cars in the July 1957 ORER, The Erie had begun to sell their cars off to shortlines in the mid to late 1950's. By January 1959 there were 258 cars and by January 1961 94 cars. RPC 5 covers these cars.

Now for the Broadway Model. The pre-production samples on the BLI site match the details of the B&M, MP, Milwaukee and MKT cars best. This is unfortunate since it would have made more sense to follow the B&O which had 7000 of these cars. I can't say for certain which road they used for prototype since there are subtle differences in the side sheathing, doubler plates, end panel taper, ladders, hand brakes, trucks. A close up photo of the trucks on the BLI site show them to be patterned after Symington trucks so B&M and MILW prototypes seem likely.

The differences in the model and the Erie cars include trucks, doubler plates and ladders. It's possible the end taper is wrong too. Also, IF the model is based on the B&M or MilW cars the IL and side height will be incorrect. The Erie cars had an IL of 41'-2 7/8" and an side height if 10'-3 3/8" The BM and MILW cars were 40'-5" and 10'-8: respectively.

All is not lost though, since the B&M sold some cars to the DL&W in the mid 50's. I am not sure how long they lasted, and I've no interest in modeling one so someone else can look up that information.

I had originally planned to get a 4 pack for my 1957 era Erie, so I was planning to do this comparison anyway. I am not sure I'll buy them now, the doubler plates are obvious and hard to correct, and swapping out BLI trucks is often a pain. The old Athearn quad, which is based on the B&O may be a better starting point for Erie cars. I'll have to pick up one at a swap meet to see.

Note many dealers will break up the 4 packs.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
Brian Carlson
 

It is a riveted connection plate where the side sheathing came together. It could also be called a splice plate. Easiest way to see this is the article in RPC 5

Page 86 top B&M Builders photo

Look at roughly the third points along the side and you see an additional doubler (splice) plate where the side panels are joined. The rivets in this connection are not staggered. Also on the B&M car not there is not a plate at the bolster where the tapered upper plate joins the full height side plate. The B&M MP, Milwaukee and MKT only have two doubler plates as-built. Sometimes repairs or replacement changed th configuartion

 

Top page 93 Erie Builders photo.

This car has 5 doubler plates, at the bolsters, and 3 between the hoppers.  C&O has the same construction. Now the rivets could be replicated with Archer decals but the actual thickness of the plate would be tough to do.

 

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 12:51 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper

 

 


Brian thanks for the thorough review. What is a doubler plate?

Tim O'Connor
arved_grass
 

Literal German translation is closer to dirt or dirty. If you wanted to say to someone that he had a spot or dirt on his shirt, the word you'd use for that dirt is drek. Yiddish would be closer to (keeping things as clean as I can) the product of a bowel movement. The generally accepted translation is "rubbish" if you go to most on-line resources.

Kind of like using the old Athearn 40' box car for anything other than harvesting rivets. :-)

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@... or Arved@...
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 1/8/15, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, January 8, 2015, 6:11 PM


 











To each his own, as the Yiddish would say (hint: drek is
German/Yiddish)



>Sorry do not know what "drek" means but I like
my Atlasundec Erie version just fine and thought the NYC
car was/is an abortion.

>

>Bill Welch













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