Topics

SS 50' box - looking for prototype


Rich Gibson
 

All,


I have an HO model that I assembled from a wood kit a number of years ago but never lettered because the decals disintegrated. Looking at it now, it's a nice car but it is clear from the 1955 ORER that the lettering diagrams provided with the kit do not correspond to prototype examples of this car. The kit was manufactured by Quality Craft Models and distributed by Bev-Bel. Unfortunately, I cannot find a picture of this model online to provide a link to, so I will try to describe the car below:

- External dimensions: length 51', height rails to top of roofwalk 15', width 10'

- Single sheathed with 'z' braces; 2 diagonals left of doors, 3 to right; 45 degree corner braces at the top and bottom of the end side panels

- 1 1/2 doors (6.5' and 4.5' width); staggered; wood doors with a horizontal brace approximately mid-height

- composite ends with braces in a 'V' configuration

- Hutchins Dry lading roof

- straight center sill underframe

- K-style brakes with brake wheel mounted on a vertical shaft.

Overall, the car looks very much like a 50' version of the of the MILW 40' auto boxes (592025-593024) shown on pg. 99 of the Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Vol. 1.


I'd appreciate any suggestions on a reasonable prototype for this car along with any pointers to photos and/or decal sources. The obvious first question is whether or not the MILW had 50' auto boxes of this style. Thanks in advance for any help.


Rich Gibson

Tulsa, OK


Eric Lombard
 

Rich, do the posts and braces form a Howe or Pratt truss?
Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL


On Sunday, January 18, 2015, richgibson89@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

All,


I have an HO model that I assembled from a wood kit a number of years ago but never lettered because the decals disintegrated. Looking at it now, it's a nice car but it is clear from the 1955 ORER that the lettering diagrams provided with the kit do not correspond to prototype examples of this car. The kit was manufactured by Quality Craft Models and distributed by Bev-Bel. Unfortunately, I cannot find a picture of this model online to provide a link to, so I will try to describe the car below:

- External dimensions: length 51', height rails to top of roofwalk 15', width 10'

- Single sheathed with 'z' braces; 2 diagonals left of doors, 3 to right; 45 degree corner braces at the top and bottom of the end side panels

- 1 1/2 doors (6.5' and 4.5' width); staggered; wood doors with a horizontal brace approx! imately mid-height

- composite ends with braces in a 'V' configuration

- Hutchins Dry lading roof

- straight center sill underframe

- K-style brakes with brake wheel mounted on a vertical shaft.

Overall, the car looks very much like a 50' version of the of the MILW 40' auto boxes (592025-593024) shown on pg. 99 of the Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Vol. 1.


I'd appreciate any suggestions on a reasonable prototype for this car along with any pointers to photos and/or decal sources. The obvious first question is whether or not the MILW had 50' auto boxes of this style. Thanks in advance for any help.


Rich Gibson

Tulsa, OK



Allan Smith
 

I think the car you are describing is the Northeastern Scale Models SP 50' A-50-5-6 model. The instructions show car 67099 which is a A-50-6 car in the series 66800-67999. Photos are on pages 58-65 of Tony's book Volume 3, SP Freight Cars

Al Smith Sonora CA


Rich Gibson
 


The braces on the model form a Howe truss.

 

This is not the Northeastern SP model, as far as I can tell. It does not have a fishbelly underframe and the side bracing pattern is very different from the A-50-6. The instructions show no drawings of an SP car, only Reading, WM, NYC, PRR, D&H. N&W....all of which seem to be incorrect, at least for the numbers shown.

 

Rich Gibson


Dennis Storzek
 

Is this the kit with cast soft metal side posts and braces? If so, it's a Quality Craft kit, although I forget the intended prototype.

Dennis Storzek


Benjamin Hom
 

Rich Gibson wrote:



"The braces on the model form a Howe truss.

This is not the Northeastern SP model, as far as I can tell. It does not have a fishbelly underframe and the side bracing pattern is very different from the A-50-6. The instructions show no drawings of an SP car, only Reading, WM, NYC, PRR, D&H. N&W....all of which seem to be incorrect, at least for the numbers shown."

Definitely a Quality Craft model, and you're right about the schemes on the instruction sheet - they're all bogus.
http://www.hoseeker.net/qualitycraft/qualitycraftIobboxcarpg1.jpg
http://www.hoseeker.net/qualitycraft/qualitycraftIobboxcarpg2.jpg

I'm having difficulty finding prototypes with SS ends, so I'm skeptical regarding a prototype for this model. It appears to a their 40 ft MILW SS boxcar stretched to 50 ft.

See Richard Hendrickson's article in the July 1995 and July 1996 issues of Railmodel Journal for more information.
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/443/32370/july-1995-page-16
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/407/29808/july-1996-page-14

(Part of the first article and all of the second article's images are coming up - it looks like there's partial restoration of the Trainlife website.)


Ben Hom


Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

RDG had no 50' outside steel truss box cars. The only cars remotely similar were the USRA 40' cars.
 
Eric N.
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: SS 50' box - looking for prototype

 

Rich Gibson wrote:

"The braces on the model form a Howe truss.

This is not the Northeastern SP model, as far as I can tell. It does not have a fishbelly underframe and the side bracing pattern is very different from the A-50-6. The instructions show no drawings of an SP car, only Reading, WM, NYC, PRR, D&H. N&W....all of which seem to be incorrect, at least for the numbers shown."

Definitely a Quality Craft model, and you're right about the schemes on the instruction sheet - they're all bogus.
http://www.hoseeker.net/qualitycraft/qualitycraftIobboxcarpg1.jpg
http://www.hoseeker.net/qualitycraft/qualitycraftIobboxcarpg2.jpg

I'm having difficulty finding prototypes with SS ends, so I'm skeptical regarding a prototype for this model. It appears to a their 40 ft MILW SS boxcar stretched to 50 ft.

See Richard Hendrickson's article in the July 1995 and July 1996 issues of Railmodel Journal for more information.
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/443/32370/july-1995-page-16
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/407/29808/july-1996-page-14

(Part of the first article and all of the second article's images are coming up - it looks like there's partial restoration of the Trainlife website.)

Ben Hom


Eric Lombard
 

Rich, I'm afraid I have to agree with Ben - there likely is no prototype. If someone comes up with on I would certainly like to know of it. In my box car database, which is based on thousands of references, there are no series that meet the structural characteristics you list. There are 163 series of single-wood-sheathed cars between 48-0 and 51-6 inside length, 68 are built new, the remainder are series that have been rebuilt or renumbered, or both. Of these only one has the posts and braces count and arrangement you list: RI 262450-262799, built 1930 by SSC. However, these cars have fishbelly center sills, Dreadnaught ends, a radial roof, and a 12-0 door opening. I am sending you a spreadsheet output from the database with all the present information I have on the 163 series. Perhaps, if you go through it you might find a compromise you can accept or a modification you are willing to undertake to the present model.

Sincerely,
Eric

On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 8:48 AM, richgibson89@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

All,


I have an HO model that I assembled from a wood kit a number of years ago but never lettered because the decals disintegrated. Looking at it now, it's a nice car but it is clear from the 1955 ORER that the lettering diagrams provided with the kit do not correspond to prototype examples of this car. The kit was manufactured by Quality Craft Models and distributed by Bev-Bel. Unfortunately, I cannot find a picture of this model online to provide a link to, so I will try to describe the car below:

- External dimensions: length 51', height rails to top of roofwalk 15', width 10'

- Single sheathed with 'z' braces; 2 diagonals left of doors, 3 to right; 45 degree corner braces at the top and bottom of the end side panels

- 1 1/2 doors (6.5' and 4.5' width); staggered; wood doors with a horizontal brace approx! imately mid-height

- composite ends with braces in a 'V' configuration

- Hutchins Dry lading roof

- straight center sill underframe

- K-style brakes with brake wheel mounted on a vertical shaft.

Overall, the car looks very much like a 50' version of the of the MILW 40' auto boxes (592025-593024) shown on pg. 99 of the Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Vol. 1.


I'd appreciate any suggestions on a reasonable prototype for this car along with any pointers to photos and/or decal sources. The obvious first question is whether or not the MILW had 50' auto boxes of this style. Thanks in advance for any help.


Rich Gibson

Tulsa, OK



Tim O'Connor
 

Eric

I was going to suggest the Rock Island cars too but you beat me to it.
But as you imply if that was the intent, then they really screwed it up!
But the sides do strongly resemble the RI car -- which was available as
a resin kit from Rocket Express.

50 foot single sheathed auto cars with composite ends must have been rare
to begin with -- other than the SP A-50-6 and maybe the Milwaukee cars that
were suggested I just don't know of any.

Tim O'



Rich, I'm afraid I have to agree with Ben - there likely is no prototype. If someone comes up with on I would certainly like to know of it. In my box car database, which is based on thousands of references, there are no series that meet the structural characteristics you list. There are 163 series of single-wood-sheathed cars between 48-0 and 51-6 inside length, 68 are built new, the remainder are series that have been rebuilt or renumbered, or both. Of these only one has the posts and braces count and arrangement you list: RI 262450-262799, built 1930 by SSC. However, these cars have fishbelly center sills, Dreadnaught ends, a radial roof, and a 12-0 door opening. I am sending you a spreadsheet output from the database with all the present information I have on the 163 series. Perhaps, if you go through it you might find a compromise you can accept or a modification you are willing to undertake to the present model.

Sincerely,
Eric


I have an HO model that I assembled from a wood kit a number of years ago but never lettered because the decals disintegrated. Looking at it now, it's a nice car but it is clear from the 1955 ORER that the lettering diagrams provided with the kit do not correspond to prototype examples of this car. The kit was manufactured by Quality Craft Models and distributed by Bev-Bel. Unfortunately, I cannot find a picture of this model online to provide a link to, so I will try to describe the car below:

- External dimensions: length 51', height rails to top of roofwalk 15', width 10'

- Single sheathed with 'z' braces; 2 diagonals left of doors, 3 to right; 45 degree corner braces at the top and bottom of the end side panels

- 1 1/2 doors (6.5' and 4.5' width);� staggered; wood doors with a horizontal brace approx! imately mid-height

- composite ends with braces in a 'V' configuration

- Hutchins Dry lading roof

- straight center sill underframe

- K-style brakes with brake wheel mounted on a vertical shaft.

Overall, the car looks very much like a 50' version of the of the MILW 40' auto boxes (592025-593024) shown on pg. 99 of the Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Vol. 1.

I'd appreciate any suggestions on a reasonable prototype for this car along with any pointers to photos and/or decal sources. The obvious first question is whether or not the MILW had 50' auto boxes of this style. Thanks in advance for any help.

Rich Gibson

Tulsa, OK


Eric Lombard
 

I tally 16 series of ~50' SS XA built new with wood ends between 1910 and 1924. Many had ends with posts and braces in the |\||/| pattern, but not all. All had door openings of around ~10' most were "door and a half" but some had equal-sized doors of approx 5-5. All had sides with Howe trusses. All but the first two series had 7 posts per side, the two 1910 series for the Erie had five. They were formidable monsters for their time ;-)

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Eric

I was going to suggest the Rock Island cars too but you beat me to it.
But as you imply if that was the intent, then they really screwed it up!
But the sides do strongly resemble the RI car -- which was available as
a resin kit from Rocket Express.

50 foot single sheathed auto cars with composite ends must have been rare
to begin with -- other than the SP A-50-6 and maybe the Milwaukee cars that
were suggested I just don't know of any.

Tim O'



Rich, I'm afraid I have to agree with Ben - there likely is no prototype. If someone comes up with on I would certainly like to know of it. In my box car database, which is based on thousands of references, there are no series that meet the structural characteristics you list. There are 163 series of single-wood-sheathed cars between 48-0 and 51-6 inside length, 68 are built new, the remainder are series that have been rebuilt or renumbered, or both. Of these only one has the posts and braces count and arrangement you list: RI 262450-262799, built 1930 by SSC. However, these cars have fishbelly center sills, Dreadnaught ends, a radial roof, and a 12-0 door opening. I am sending you a spreadsheet output from the database with all the present information I have on the 163 series. Perhaps, if you go through it you might find a compromise you can accept or a modification you are willing to undertake to the present model.

Sincerely,
Eric


I have an HO model that I assembled from a wood kit a number of years ago but never lettered because the decals disintegrated. Looking at it now, it's a nice car but it is clear from the 1955 ORER that the lettering diagrams provided with the kit do not correspond to prototype examples of this car. The kit was manufactured by Quality Craft Models and distributed by Bev-Bel. Unfortunately, I cannot find a picture of this model online to provide a link to, so I will try to describe the car below:

- External dimensions: length 51', height rails to top of roofwalk 15', width 10'

- Single sheathed with 'z' braces; 2 diagonals left of doors, 3 to right; 45 degree corner braces at the top and bottom of the end side panels

- 1 1/2 doors (6.5' and 4.5' width);Â staggered; wood doors with a horizontal brace approx! imately mid-height

- composite ends with braces in a 'V' configuration

- Hutchins Dry lading roof

- straight center sill underframe

- K-style brakes with brake wheel mounted on a vertical shaft.

Overall, the car looks very much like a 50' version of the of the MILW 40' auto boxes (592025-593024) shown on pg. 99 of the Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Vol. 1.

I'd appreciate any suggestions on a reasonable prototype for this car along with any pointers to photos and/or decal sources. The obvious first question is whether or not the MILW had 50' auto boxes of this style. Thanks in advance for any help.

Rich Gibson

Tulsa, OK



Eric Lombard
 

Well, I fat thumbed that post before it was done.
Here is a list of the series with wood ends. Many are SP system and the MILW cars you mention, Tim:

ERIE    68300    68324    25        1910    PSC
ERIE    68325    68399    75        1910    PSC
CRI&P    261125    261449    325    F3    1912    WSC
RIA&L    261000    261124    125        1912    WSC
CB&Q    45000    45499    500    XA-05    1913    H&B
CRI&P    261450    261949    500        1913    PUL
UP    85600    85999    400    A-40-01    1913    SSC
SP    61660    62059    400    A-40-01    1913    SSC
L&N    9800    9899    100        1917    ACF
SP    66800    67999    1200    A-50-06    1923    GAC
GH&SA    39660    39959    300    A-50-06    1923    GAC
SP    68000    68499    500    A-50-05    1923    GAC
GH&SA    58100    58199    100    A-50-07    1924    PUL
LW    58000    58099    100    A-50-07    1924    PUL
SP    68680    68879    200    A-50-07    1924    PUL
SP    68880    68979    100    A-50-07    1924    PUL

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Eric

I was going to suggest the Rock Island cars too but you beat me to it.
But as you imply if that was the intent, then they really screwed it up!
But the sides do strongly resemble the RI car -- which was available as
a resin kit from Rocket Express.

50 foot single sheathed auto cars with composite ends must have been rare
to begin with -- other than the SP A-50-6 and maybe the Milwaukee cars that
were suggested I just don't know of any.

Tim O'



Rich, I'm afraid I have to agree with Ben - there likely is no prototype. If someone comes up with on I would certainly like to know of it. In my box car database, which is based on thousands of references, there are no series that meet the structural characteristics you list. There are 163 series of single-wood-sheathed cars between 48-0 and 51-6 inside length, 68 are built new, the remainder are series that have been rebuilt or renumbered, or both. Of these only one has the posts and braces count and arrangement you list: RI 262450-262799, built 1930 by SSC. However, these cars have fishbelly center sills, Dreadnaught ends, a radial roof, and a 12-0 door opening. I am sending you a spreadsheet output from the database with all the present information I have on the 163 series. Perhaps, if you go through it you might find a compromise you can accept or a modification you are willing to undertake to the present model.

Sincerely,
Eric


I have an HO model that I assembled from a wood kit a number of years ago but never lettered because the decals disintegrated. Looking at it now, it's a nice car but it is clear from the 1955 ORER that the lettering diagrams provided with the kit do not correspond to prototype examples of this car. The kit was manufactured by Quality Craft Models and distributed by Bev-Bel. Unfortunately, I cannot find a picture of this model online to provide a link to, so I will try to describe the car below:

- External dimensions: length 51', height rails to top of roofwalk 15', width 10'

- Single sheathed with 'z' braces; 2 diagonals left of doors, 3 to right; 45 degree corner braces at the top and bottom of the end side panels

- 1 1/2 doors (6.5' and 4.5' width);Â staggered; wood doors with a horizontal brace approx! imately mid-height

- composite ends with braces in a 'V' configuration

- Hutchins Dry lading roof

- straight center sill underframe

- K-style brakes with brake wheel mounted on a vertical shaft.

Overall, the car looks very much like a 50' version of the of the MILW 40' auto boxes (592025-593024) shown on pg. 99 of the Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Vol. 1.

I'd appreciate any suggestions on a reasonable prototype for this car along with any pointers to photos and/or decal sources. The obvious first question is whether or not the MILW had 50' auto boxes of this style. Thanks in advance for any help.

Rich Gibson

Tulsa, OK



Rich Gibson
 

Thanks to all for the help on this. It looks like some modifications to the model might be order....

Rich


ed_mines
 

It's a foobie prototype; kit was offered in many roadnames including Erie.


Made by Q'craft, I recall it was offered under another brand name in a yellow box.


I bought many of these kits at Sal Marino (SMC) in Staten Island for cheap in the mid '80s as a source of Z bar braces and Erie decals.


Ed Mines




spsalso
 

I've got (somewhere) a 50' single sheathed car built from a kit in a yellow box--Main Line Models?????


Ed

Edward Sutorik