SS 50' box - looking for prototype
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Rich Gibson
All, I have an HO model that I assembled from a wood kit a number of years ago but never lettered because the decals disintegrated. Looking at it now, it's a nice car but it is clear from the 1955 ORER that the lettering diagrams provided with the kit do not correspond to prototype examples of this car. The kit was manufactured by Quality Craft Models and distributed by Bev-Bel. Unfortunately, I cannot find a picture of this model online to provide a link to, so I will try to describe the car below: - External dimensions: length 51', height rails to top of roofwalk 15', width 10' - Single sheathed with 'z' braces; 2 diagonals left of doors, 3 to right; 45 degree corner braces at the top and bottom of the end side panels - 1 1/2 doors (6.5' and 4.5' width); staggered; wood doors with a horizontal brace approximately mid-height - composite ends with braces in a 'V' configuration - Hutchins Dry lading roof - straight center sill underframe - K-style brakes with brake wheel mounted on a vertical shaft. Overall, the car looks very much like a 50' version of the of the MILW 40' auto boxes (592025-593024) shown on pg. 99 of the Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Vol. 1. I'd appreciate any suggestions on a reasonable prototype for this car along with any pointers to photos and/or decal sources. The obvious first question is whether or not the MILW had 50' auto boxes of this style. Thanks in advance for any help. Rich Gibson Tulsa, OK
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Rich, do the posts and braces form a Howe or Pratt truss?
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Eric Lombard Homewood, IL
On Sunday, January 18, 2015, richgibson89@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Allan Smith
I think the car you are describing is the Northeastern Scale Models SP 50' A-50-5-6 model. The instructions show car 67099 which is a A-50-6 car in the series 66800-67999. Photos are on pages 58-65 of Tony's book Volume 3, SP Freight Cars Al Smith Sonora CA
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Rich Gibson
This is not the Northeastern SP model, as far as I can tell. It does not have a fishbelly underframe and the side bracing pattern is very different from the A-50-6. The instructions show no drawings of an SP car, only Reading, WM, NYC, PRR, D&H. N&W....all of which seem to be incorrect, at least for the numbers shown.
Rich Gibson
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Dennis Storzek
Is this the kit with cast soft metal side posts and braces? If so, it's a Quality Craft kit, although I forget the intended prototype.
Dennis Storzek
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Benjamin Hom
Rich Gibson wrote:
"The braces on the model form a Howe truss. This is not the Northeastern SP model, as far as I can tell. It does not have a fishbelly underframe and the side bracing pattern is very different from the A-50-6. The instructions show no drawings of an SP car, only Reading, WM, NYC, PRR, D&H. N&W....all of which seem to be incorrect, at least for the numbers shown." Definitely a Quality Craft model, and you're right about the schemes on the instruction sheet - they're all bogus. http://www.hoseeker.net/qualitycraft/qualitycraftIobboxcarpg1.jpg http://www.hoseeker.net/qualitycraft/qualitycraftIobboxcarpg2.jpg I'm having difficulty finding prototypes with SS ends, so I'm skeptical regarding a prototype for this model. It appears to a their 40 ft MILW SS boxcar stretched to 50 ft. See Richard Hendrickson's article in the July 1995 and July 1996 issues of Railmodel Journal for more information. http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/443/32370/july-1995-page-16 http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/407/29808/july-1996-page-14 (Part of the first article and all of the second article's images are coming up - it looks like there's partial restoration of the Trainlife website.) Ben Hom
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Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
RDG had no 50' outside steel truss box cars. The
only cars remotely similar were the USRA 40' cars.
Eric N.
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Rich, I'm afraid I have to agree with Ben - there likely is no prototype. If someone comes up with on I would certainly like to know of it. In my box car database, which is based on thousands of references, there are no series that meet the structural characteristics you list. There are 163 series of single-wood-sheathed cars between 48-0 and 51-6 inside length, 68 are built new, the remainder are series that have been rebuilt or renumbered, or both. Of these only one has the posts and braces count and arrangement you list: RI 262450-262799, built 1930 by SSC. However, these cars have fishbelly center sills, Dreadnaught ends, a radial roof, and a 12-0 door opening. I am sending you a spreadsheet output from the database with all the present information I have on the 163 series. Perhaps, if you go through it you might find a compromise you can accept or a modification you are willing to undertake to the present model. Sincerely,
On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 8:48 AM, richgibson89@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Eric
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I was going to suggest the Rock Island cars too but you beat me to it. But as you imply if that was the intent, then they really screwed it up! But the sides do strongly resemble the RI car -- which was available as a resin kit from Rocket Express. 50 foot single sheathed auto cars with composite ends must have been rare to begin with -- other than the SP A-50-6 and maybe the Milwaukee cars that were suggested I just don't know of any. Tim O'
Rich, I'm afraid I have to agree with Ben - there likely is no prototype. If someone comes up with on I would certainly like to know of it. In my box car database, which is based on thousands of references, there are no series that meet the structural characteristics you list. There are 163 series of single-wood-sheathed cars between 48-0 and 51-6 inside length, 68 are built new, the remainder are series that have been rebuilt or renumbered, or both. Of these only one has the posts and braces count and arrangement you list: RI 262450-262799, built 1930 by SSC. However, these cars have fishbelly center sills, Dreadnaught ends, a radial roof, and a 12-0 door opening. I am sending you a spreadsheet output from the database with all the present information I have on the 163 series. Perhaps, if you go through it you might find a compromise you can accept or a modification you are willing to undertake to the present model.
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I tally 16 series of ~50' SS XA built new with wood ends between 1910 and 1924. Many had ends with posts and braces in the |\||/| pattern, but not all. All had door openings of around ~10' most were "door and a half" but some had equal-sized doors of approx 5-5. All had sides with Howe trusses. All but the first two series had 7 posts per side, the two 1910 series for the Erie had five. They were formidable monsters for their time ;-)
On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Well, I fat thumbed that post before it was done. Here is a list of the series with wood ends. Many are SP system and the MILW cars you mention, Tim:ERIE 68300 68324 25 1910 PSC ERIE 68325 68399 75 1910 PSC CRI&P 261125 261449 325 F3 1912 WSC RIA&L 261000 261124 125 1912 WSC CB&Q 45000 45499 500 XA-05 1913 H&B CRI&P 261450 261949 500 1913 PUL UP 85600 85999 400 A-40-01 1913 SSC SP 61660 62059 400 A-40-01 1913 SSC L&N 9800 9899 100 1917 ACF SP 66800 67999 1200 A-50-06 1923 GAC GH&SA 39660 39959 300 A-50-06 1923 GAC SP 68000 68499 500 A-50-05 1923 GAC GH&SA 58100 58199 100 A-50-07 1924 PUL LW 58000 58099 100 A-50-07 1924 PUL SP 68680 68879 200 A-50-07 1924 PUL SP 68880 68979 100 A-50-07 1924 PUL
On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Rich Gibson
Thanks to all for the help on this. It looks like some modifications to the model might be order.... Rich
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ed_mines
It's a foobie prototype; kit was offered in many roadnames including Erie. Made by Q'craft, I recall it was offered under another brand name in a yellow box. I bought many of these kits at Sal Marino (SMC) in Staten Island for cheap in the mid '80s as a source of Z bar braces and Erie decals. Ed Mines
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spsalso
I've got (somewhere) a 50' single sheathed car built from a kit in a yellow box--Main Line Models?????
Ed Edward Sutorik
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