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tank cars behind locomotives


ed_mines
 

There are little to no fumes from crude oil and although it burns, it's not so easy to set on fire.


From this forum I've learned that the fuel oil used in steam locomotives is even more difficult to set on fire.


Ed Mines


Tony Thompson
 

Ed Mines wrote:

 
There are little to no fumes from crude oil and although it burns, it's not so easy to set on fire.

    Depends on the crude, of course, and some crude is indeed tarry and heavy. But remember, the gasoline and other fractions which are later extracted from the crude ARE in there in the beginning. Most crude oils are quite flammable. Remember the crude oil fire disaster in Canada recently?

From this forum I've learned that the fuel oil used in steam locomotives is even more difficult to set on fire.

  True. Bunker C is really goopy stuff.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





John Larkin
 

I think you have to remember that there are differing grades of crude oil.  The Canadian oil train disaster happened in part because the shipper didn't let the railroads know that the North Dakota crude is different in nature from most heavier crude oils.  Among other things there is more methane in it, along with some other readily flammable chemicals (can't remember the names) that make it much more volatile than normal crude oil.

I may easily be mistaken but I don't recall seeing mention of crude oil tank cars blowing up in prior years the way the current Brakken oil does.

John Larkin


On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 2:34 PM, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Ed Mines wrote:

 
There are little to no fumes from crude oil and although it burns, it's not so easy to set on fire.

    Depends on the crude, of course, and some crude is indeed tarry and heavy. But remember, the gasoline and other fractions which are later extracted from the crude ARE in there in the beginning. Most crude oils are quite flammable. Remember the crude oil fire disaster in Canada recently?

From this forum I've learned that the fuel oil used in steam locomotives is even more difficult to set on fire.
  True. Bunker C is really goopy stuff.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







Geodyssey
 

Today, crude oil (and diesel) are classed by the AAR as "combustible liquids", not "flamable".  There is no AAR requirement to use buffer cars to separte combustible liquids from engines, occupied cabooses, or business cars.  Individual railroads may have rules that are more restrictive, but crude is always a "combustible".


I'm not sure what the AAR rules were pre-1961, but I doubt they were more restrictive concerning train & switching placement.


Robert Simpson

ex-RR operations manager





---In STMFC@..., <tony@...> wrote :

Ed Mines wrote:

 
There are little to no fumes from crude oil and although it burns, it's not so easy to set on fire.

    Depends on the crude, of course, and some crude is indeed tarry and heavy. But remember, the gasoline and other fractions which are later extracted from the crude ARE in there in the beginning. Most crude oils are quite flammable. Remember the crude oil fire disaster in Canada recently?

From this forum I've learned that the fuel oil used in steam locomotives is even more difficult to set on fire.

  True. Bunker C is really goopy stuff.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Tony Thompson
 

John Larkin wrote:

 
I think you have to remember that there are differing grades of crude oil.  

    Sure, exactly what I said. It was the original comment which generalized about "crude oil" without qualifiers.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Charles Hladik
 

    I've been told by someone that repairs tank cars ( and other rolling stock) that the Batten crude is not only highly volatile but very corrosive. Thankfully none of this was carried in steam era cars.
Chuck Hladik
 

In a message dated 2/5/2015 11:09:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

I think you have to remember that there are differing grades of crude oil.  The Canadian oil train disaster happened in part because the shipper didn't let the railroads know that the North Dakota crude is different in nature from most heavier crude oils.  Among other things there is more methane in it, along with some other readily flammable chemicals (can't remember the names) that make it much more volatile than normal crude oil.

I may easily be mistaken but I don't recall seeing mention of crude oil tank cars blowing up in prior years the way the current Brakken oil does.

Jo hn Larkin


On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 2:34 PM, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Ed Mines wrote:

 
There are little to no fumes from crude oil and although it burns, it's not so easy to set on fire.

    Depends on the crude, of course, and some crude is indeed tarry and heavy. But remember, the gasoline and other fractions which are later extracted from the crude ARE in there in the beginning. Most crude oils are quite flammable. Remember the crude oil fire disaster in Canada recently?

From this forum I've learned that the fuel oil used in steam locomotives is even more difficult to set on fire.
  True. Bunker C is really goopy stuff.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







mrprksr <mrprksr@...>
 

I think we are missing the original question as to placement of tank cars in a train....there is no restriction on where a tank car can be placed...the restriction as to placement comes with the placards applied to the car....no placard it is just another car.....as  info box cars with exposive  placards had to have 15 cars between them and engines, cabins, etc.......Lar


On Thursday, February 5, 2015 6:49 PM, "north@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Today, crude oil (and diesel) are classed by the AAR as "combustible liquids", not "flamable".  There is no AAR requirement to use buffer cars to separte combustible liquids from engines, occupied cabooses, or business cars.  Individual railroads may have rules that are more restrictive, but crude is always a "combustible".

I'm not sure what the AAR rules were pre-1961, but I doubt they were more restrictive concerning train & switching placement.

Robert Simpson
ex-RR operations manager




---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Ed Mines wrote:

 
There are little to no fumes from crude oil and although it burns, it's not so easy to set on fire.

    Depends on the crude, of course, and some crude is indeed tarry and heavy. But remember, the gasoline and other fractions which are later extracted from the crude ARE in there in the beginning. Most crude oils are quite flammable. Remember the crude oil fire disaster in Canada recently?

From this forum I've learned that the fuel oil used in steam locomotives is even more difficult to set on fire.
  True. Bunker C is really goopy stuff.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







Geodyssey
 

I was replying to Tony specifically about crude oil (placard combustible) and placement in train.  You are incorrect on the placement of cars placarded "explosives".  Explosives can be in Group A, D, or E.  Group D explosives (other than a loaded tank car) and all Group E explosives can be placed next to engines, etc...


United States Hazardous Materials Instructions for Rail, AAR & BOE 2011 

www.boe.aar.com/boe/download/US_HMI.pdf


Robert Simpson





---In STMFC@..., <mrprksr@...> wrote :

I think we are missing the original question as to placement of tank cars in a train....there is no restriction on where a tank car can be placed...the restriction as to placement comes with the placards applied to the car....no placard it is just another car.....as  info box cars with exposive  placards had to have 15 cars between them and engines, cabins, etc.......Lar


On Thursday, February 5, 2015 6:49 PM, "north@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 
Today, crude oil (and diesel) are classed by the AAR as "combustible liquids", not "flamable".  There is no AAR requirement to use buffer cars to separte combustible liquids from engines, occupied cabooses, or business cars.  Individual railroads may have rules that are more restrictive, but crude is always a "combustible".

I'm not sure what the AAR rules were pre-1961, but I doubt they were more restrictive concerning train & switching placement.

Robert Simpson
ex-RR operations manager




---In STMFC@..., <tony@...> wrote :

Ed Mines wrote:

 
There are little to no fumes from crude oil and although it burns, it's not so easy to set on fire.

    Depends on the crude, of course, and some crude is indeed tarry and heavy. But remember, the gasoline and other fractions which are later extracted from the crude ARE in there in the beginning. Most crude oils are quite flammable. Remember the crude oil fire disaster in Canada recently?

From this forum I've learned that the fuel oil used in steam locomotives is even more difficult to set on fire.
  True. Bunker C is really goopy stuff.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







Doug Pillow
 

From my time in the merchant marine Saudi crude very strong fumes ,other crudes not so much so. You could put a cigarette out in bunker oil even the Navy special
 
                                                                                                               Doug Pillow