Helium Tank Car Question
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North Model Railroad Supplies <nmrs@...>
A while back there was some discussion about the USNX/ATMX 30 tube helium tank cars built by GATC and ACF. Does anyone know what the diameter of the tanks were on these cars, please? Cheers Dave North
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Steve SANDIFER
18" diameter tanks arranged on 19" centers.
__________________________________________________ J. Stephen Sandifer Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 9:16 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Helium Tank Car Question
A while back there was some discussion about the USNX/ATMX 30 tube helium tank cars built by GATC and ACF. Does anyone know what the diameter of the tanks were on these cars, please? Cheers Dave North
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18" ID or OD?
Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 10:09 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: [STMFC] Helium Tank Car Question 18" diameter tanks arranged on 19" centers. __________________________________________________ J. Stephen Sandifer Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
A while back there was some discussion about the USNX/ATMX 30 tube helium tank cars built by GATC and ACF. Does anyone know what the diameter of the tanks were on these cars, please? Cheers Dave North
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Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
At 07:15 AM 2/5/2015, 'North Model Railroad Supplies' nmrs@... [STMFC] wrote:
A while back there was some discussion about the USNX/ATMX 30 tube helium tank cars built by GATC and ACF.The drawing on page 12 of Jay Miller's excellent Helium car clinic handout; "A Portfolio of Helium Tank Cars 1926 - 1962" seems to show a tube diameter of 18.5in for USNX 1054. I'm not sure if it is safe to extrapolate this to other cars... -------------------- Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA --------------------
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Steve SANDIFER
I measured the car here in Houston. I have numerous photos and measurements if you need them.
__________________________________________________ J. Stephen Sandifer Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 10:11 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: [STMFC] Helium Tank Car Question
18" ID or OD?
Regards Bruce Smith Auburn, AL From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] 18" diameter tanks arranged on 19" centers. __________________________________________________ J. Stephen Sandifer Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
A while back there was some discussion about the USNX/ATMX 30 tube helium tank cars built by GATC and ACF. Does anyone know what the diameter of the tanks were on these cars, please? Cheers Dave North
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Steve SANDIFER
OD. I imagine they are very thick wall tanks.
__________________________________________________ J. Stephen Sandifer Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 10:11 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: [STMFC] Helium Tank Car Question
18" ID or OD?
Regards Bruce Smith Auburn, AL From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] 18" diameter tanks arranged on 19" centers. __________________________________________________ J. Stephen Sandifer Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
A while back there was some discussion about the USNX/ATMX 30 tube helium tank cars built by GATC and ACF. Does anyone know what the diameter of the tanks were on these cars, please? Cheers Dave North
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Jack Mullen
The 1943 cyc has a photo of USNX 1006, one of the GATX 28-tube cars, and also lists the OD as 18.5 in. I think I recall reading elsewhere that the wall thickness was 3/4". I can't find confirmation of that figure, or recall the source. At least it's in the plausible range considering either weight or hoop stress. So yeah, heavy pipe, but not unusually so.
The 18.5" diameter is perhaps a bit odd, since standard NPS 18" pipe sizes have an 18.0" OD. Steve, did your measurements show 18" or 18.5" OD? What car was it? Jack Mullen
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Steve SANDIFER
The Houston RR Museum has one of the 1954 versions. I measured centerline to centerline of 2 tanks, much easier than trying to measure the diameter of one. It was 19." I then estimated the space between the tanks at 1".
__________________________________________________ J. Stephen Sandifer Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 5:12 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Helium Tank Car Question
The 1943 cyc has a photo of USNX 1006, one of the GATX 28-tube cars, and also lists the OD as 18.5 in. I think I recall reading elsewhere that the wall thickness was 3/4". I can't find confirmation of that figure, or recall the source. At least it's in the plausible range considering either weight or hoop stress. So yeah, heavy pipe, but not unusually so.
The 18.5" diameter is perhaps a bit odd, since standard NPS 18" pipe sizes have an 18.0" OD.
Steve, did your measurements show 18" or 18.5" OD? What car was it?
Jack Mullen
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North Model Railroad Supplies <nmrs@...>
Guys, Thank you all for your responses. It is greatly appreciated. Stephen, I’ve emailed you direct so you’ll have my email address.
After reading Tony’s three posts on his blog I was motivated to build one of these myself. Again thanks to everyone for their input. Cheers Dave North
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Jack Mullen
Thanks for the clarification, Steve.
Were you able to get photos showing how the tanks are supported? In some photos it appears there are horizontal members running crosswise between the side vertical posts and passing between the layers of tanks, but I haven't been able to see details. My interest is mostly technical curiousity, although I have toyed with the idea of scratchbuilding one in O scale, even though I can't justify one appearing in my area of interest (C&NW, northern IL/ southern WI). Somebody please tell me I'm crazy. Surely I have better ways to spend my modeling time? Jack Mullen
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John Barry
Just when you thought you were safe. Does your serviced area have a Linde distributer? If so, you could justifiy a He tank to occasionally replenish their stock which would be used for HeliArc welding of stainless steel and aluminum.
John Barry
ATSF North Bay Lines Golden Gates & Fast Freights 707-490-9696 PO Box 44736 Washington, DC 20026-4736 From: "jack.f.mullen@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC@... Sent: Friday, February 6, 2015 6:10 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: Helium Tank Car Question Thanks for the clarification, Steve. Were you able to get photos showing how the tanks are supported? In some photos it appears there are horizontal members running crosswise between the side vertical posts and passing between the layers of tanks, but I haven't been able to see details.
My interest is mostly technical curiousity, although I have toyed with the idea of scratchbuilding one in O scale, even though I can't justify one appearing in my area of interest (C&NW, northern IL/ southern WI). Somebody please tell me I'm crazy. Surely I have better ways to spend my modeling time? Jack Mullen
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Jack Mullen
John Barry wrote:
Just when you thought you were safe. Does your serviced area have a Linde distributer? Well , I do model a couple different eras to a limited extent, so an MHAX car going to an industrial customer wouldn't be entirely out of the question, but if I were going to build a helium car, I'd want it to be a USNX car c.1942-3, my steam era focal point. And the Navy just didn't have an L-T-A facility in the upper midwest. Aircraft carriers on Lake Michigan, yes. Blimps at NAS Glenview, no. Probably a good thing for me. I struggle to stay focused on what I really need to model, and not lose myself chasing all the other things that interest me. Thanks, Jack Mullen
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Tony Thompson
Jack Mullen wrote:
But Jack, the Navy delivered to all kinds of businesses which used helium. Sure, it was their baby on account of the blimps, but the industrial and manufacturing and research users still needed helium. It was delivered in USNX cars. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Jack Mullen
Tony,
I take your point, and thanks for confirming that "civilian" helium did move in USNX cars, but I suspect that in my area and era, it would be a rare event indeed. Better that I focus my efforts on the typical, rather than the rare or ephemeral. Jack Mullen
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Tony Thompson
Jack Mullen wrote:
No desire to encourage you to model the rare, just wanted to make sure the traffic story was clear. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Steve SANDIFER
Of course the tanks are secured at both ends as they are attached to major serious bulkheads at teach end.
The two vertical structural members in the middle have a steel strap that goes across the car between each layer of tubes. It is not enormous, maybe 3/8" thick and 4" wide. Between tubes inside there are cradles attached to that between the tubes. I don't know how much weight they support, of if they just keep the tubes from bouncing. Send me a personal email and I will attach photos of that for you. __________________________________________________ J. Stephen Sandifer, steve.sandifer@... Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] Sent: Friday, February 6, 2015 5:11 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Helium Tank Car Question Thanks for the clarification, Steve. Were you able to get photos showing how the tanks are supported? In some photos it appears there are horizontal members running crosswise between the side vertical posts and passing between the layers of tanks, but I haven't been able to see details. My interest is mostly technical curiousity, although I have toyed with the idea of scratchbuilding one in O scale, even though I can't justify one appearing in my area of interest (C&NW, northern IL/ southern WI). Somebody please tell me I'm crazy. Surely I have better ways to spend my modeling time? Jack Mullen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Nick Gully
After reading this very informative thread, I ran across a picture of three of these tank cars helping get a satellite into orbit tonight. Speaks volumes about how well they were built. (And for steam related content, a great deal will be generated when this rocket takes off!)
SpaceX on Twitter
Best Regards, Nick
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Nick,
These cars continued to be built over many years. Those pictured are probably 1960s vintage.
Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al
From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2015 1:29 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Helium Tank Car Question After reading this very informative thread, I ran across a picture of three of these tank cars helping get a satellite into orbit tonight. Speaks volumes about how well they were built. (And for steam related content, a great deal will be generated when this rocket takes off!) SpaceX on Twitter
Best Regards, Nick
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