Resin Kits w/cast-on grabs/ladders


Bill Welch
 

To clarify why this option would be offered, the kits are intended for those needing to build fleets of a certain prototype, especially gons and hoppers. IIRC one of the intended kits is a one-piece composite CB&Q gon offered as a kit years ago by Sunshine.


Bill Welch


David
 

Anyone in that much of a hurry could simply build the cars without installing the grabs and other superdetail bits. Casting blob "grabs" just makes extra unnecessary work for people who do have the time.

David Thompson


Pierre Oliver
 

I have seen the initial "patterns" for these models and the cast on grabs are not "blobs".
Rather they are reasonably fine representations of grabs. The models are targeted for a specific market, that is the person/s who require a large fleet of a certain class of car and doesn't wish to spend the time "superdetailing" them.
With a good paint job and a nice touch of weathering these cars will pass muster in an operating layout environment.
Not for everyone, but certainly will appeal to more than a few, I'm sure.

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 2/12/2015 11:10 AM, jaydeet2001@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Anyone in that much of a hurry could simply build the cars without installing the grabs and other superdetail bits. Casting blob "grabs" just makes extra unnecessary work for people who do have the time.

David Thompson



Maxine <burgerbits20@...>
 

Hi:this group buys resin cars because we want a certain level of detail, which includes seperate grab irons and ladders. There are numerous RTR cars  and simple kits which are fast builds. I don't see the appeal of a lesser detailed resin kit. At best it precludes the production of a kit with greater detail depriving us of this model. Thanks. Marty cooper


On Feb 12, 2015, at 11:29 AM, Pierre Oliver pierre.oliver@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I have seen the initial "patterns" for these models and the cast on grabs are not "blobs".
Rather they are reasonably fine representations of grabs. The models are targeted for a specific market, that is the person/s who require a large fleet of a certain class of car and doesn't wish to spend the time "superdetailing" them.
With a good paint job and a nice touch of weathering these cars will pass muster in an operating layout environment.
Not for everyone, but certainly will appeal to more than a few, I'm sure.

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 2/12/2015 11:10 AM, jaydeet2001@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Anyone in that much of a hurry could simply build the cars without installing the grabs and other superdetail bits. Casting blob "grabs" just makes extra unnecessary work for people who do have the time.

David Thompson



William Hirt
 

The CB&Q had over 6,000 of these gondolas so these are needed by any Midwest transition modeler. A lot of southern Illinois coal was moved in these cars to local coal dealers. Southern Illinois coal also moved into the Dakotas and Minnesota from the Q to GN and NP, so even modelers in that area could justify having one or two of these cars. A friend put together three of the Sunshine kits for me and I consider them the stars of my freight car fleet. Considering they are no longer available from Sunshine, and I would be very surprised to see them in plastic, I would look forward to a resin kit which would speed construction of at least another dozen or so. There are no ladders on these cars, only grab irons.

Bill Hirt

On 2/12/2015 1:31 PM, Maxine burgerbits20@... [STMFC] wrote:
Hi:this group buys resin cars because we want a certain level of detail, which includes seperate grab irons and ladders. There are numerous RTR cars  and simple kits which are fast builds. I don't see the appeal of a lesser detailed resin kit. At best it precludes the production of a kit with greater detail depriving us of this model. Thanks. Marty cooper



Benjamin Hom
 

Marty Cooper wrote:
"...this group buys resin cars because we want a certain level of detail, which includes seperate grab irons and ladders."

That's missing the forest for the trees. I buy resin kits because they offer prototypes that wouldn't otherwise be available in injection molded plastic due to limited appeal.

Don't fall into the trap that "it's more accurate model because it's a resin kit". That's certainly not the case.


Ben Hom


Pierre Oliver
 

LOL Ben.
Well said.
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 2/12/2015 3:42 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] wrote:

�



Marty Cooper wrote:
"...this group buys resin cars because we want a certain level of detail, which includes seperate grab irons and ladders."

That's missing the forest for the trees. I buy resin kits because they offer prototypes that wouldn't otherwise be available in injection molded plastic due to limited appeal.

Don't fall into the trap that "it's more accurate model because it's a resin kit". That's certainly not the case.

Ben Hom



 

And, really, how hard would it be to shave off the cast-in grabs, anyway?

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, February 12, 2015 at 2:42 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Resin Kits w/cast-on grabs/ladders









Marty Cooper wrote:
"...this group buys resin cars because we want a certain level of detail,
which includes seperate grab irons and ladders."

That's missing the forest for the trees. I buy resin kits because they
offer prototypes that wouldn't otherwise be available in injection molded
plastic due to limited appeal.

Don't fall into the trap that "it's more accurate model because it's a resin
kit". That's certainly not the case.

Ben Hom









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 


I sold my Sunshine 33.x kits last year for $37 each... I guess now I should have
held out for more money! :-) They were certainly beautiful kits and since Frank did
the masters I'm sure his 1-piece bodies will be very good too, albeit probably for
more than Sunshine's original $36 price.

Tim O'Connor



The CB&Q had over 6,000 of these gondolas so these are needed by any Midwest transition modeler. A lot of southern Illinois coal was moved in these cars to local coal dealers. Southern Illinois coal also moved into the Dakotas and Minnesota from the Q to GN and NP, so even modelers in that area could justify having one or two of these cars. A friend put together three of the Sunshine kits for me and I consider them the stars of my freight car fleet. Considering they are no longer available from Sunshine, and I would be very surprised to see them in plastic, I would look forward to a resin kit which would speed construction of at least another dozen or so. There are no ladders on these cars, only grab irons.

Bill Hirt

On 2/12/2015 1:31 PM, Maxine burgerbits20@... [STMFC] wrote:
Hi:this group buys resin cars because we want a certain level of detail, which includes seperate grab irons and ladders. There are numerous RTR cars � and simple kits which are fast builds. I don't see the appeal of a lesser detailed resin kit. At best it precludes the production of a kit with greater detail depriving us of this model. Thanks. Marty cooper


tyesac@...
 

Why not just provide NBW and a drilling location dimple?   I would think a "large fleet" buyer would also prefer buying prepainted, un numbered cars anyway, and not care much about grab irons either way.  
I prefer to avoid the carving chore for grabs and ladders and the gon in question has what, 12 or so grabs in total?    I recently carved off the ladders, brake platform hand brake and grabs from a Bowser round roof 40' single door car and that was a pain!    Wound up making a nice N&W B-1 though. 
 
Tom Casey

I sold my Sunshine 33.x kits last year for $37 each... I guess now I should have
held out for more money! :-) They were certainly beautiful kits and since Frank did
the masters I'm sure his 1-piece bodies will be very good too, albeit probably for
more than Sunshine's original $36 price.

Tim O'Connor



The CB&Q had over 6,000 of these gondolas so these are needed by any Midwest transition modeler. A lot of southern Illinois coal was moved in these cars to local coal dealers. Southern Illinois coal also moved into the Dakotas and Minnesota from the Q to GN and NP, so even modelers in that area could justify having one or two of these cars. A friend put together three of the Sunshine kits for me and I consider them the stars of my freight car fleet. Considering they are no longer available from Sunshine, and I would be very surprised to see them in plastic, I would look forward to a resin kit which would speed construction of at least another dozen or so. There are no ladders on these cars, only grab irons.

Bill Hirt

On 2/12/2015 1:31 PM, Maxine burgerbits20@... [STMFC] wrote:
Hi:this group buys resin cars because we want a certain level of detail, which includes seperate grab irons and ladders. There are numerous RTR cars  and simple kits which are fast builds. I don't see the appeal of a lesser detailed resin kit. At best it precludes the production of a kit with greater detail depriving us of this model. Thanks. Marty cooper
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Feb 12, 2015 3:48 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Resin Kits w/cast-on grabs/ladders

 

I sold my Sunshine 33.x kits last year for $37 each... I guess now I should have
held out for more money! :-) They were certainly beautiful kits and since Frank did
the masters I'm sure his 1-piece bodies will be very good too, albeit probably for
more than Sunshine's original $36 price.

Tim O'Connor



The CB&Q had over 6,000 of these gondolas so these are needed by any Midwest transition modeler. A lot of southern Illinois coal was moved in these cars to local coal dealers. Southern Illinois coal also moved into the Dakotas and Minnesota from the Q to GN and NP, so even modelers in that area could justify having one or two of these cars. A friend put together three of the Sunshine kits for me and I consider them the stars of my freight car fleet. Considering they are no longer available from Sunshine, and I would be very surprised to see them in plastic, I would look forward to a resin kit which would speed construction of at least another dozen or so. There are no ladders on these cars, only grab irons.

Bill Hirt

On 2/12/2015 1:31 PM, Maxine burgerbits20@... [STMFC] wrote:
Hi:this group buys resin cars because we want a certain level of detail, which includes seperate grab irons and ladders. There are numerous RTR cars  and simple kits which are fast builds. I don't see the appeal of a lesser detailed resin kit. At best it precludes the production of a kit with greater detail depriving us of this model. Thanks. Marty cooper


Tom Madden
 

Everyone is missing the point. Frank has made a business decision to offer simplified cast resin models to those who want models not available in plastic but who lack the skill or time to deal with traditional resin kits. It's not an either/or situation - the alternative is not a high end resin kit, it's not offering one at all.


It's kind of an elitist attitude, don't you think, to suggest that resin kit manufacturers tailor all their offerings exclusively to those of us with the skills to assemble anything Westerfield, Sunshine or Speedwitch ever produced. We're a very tiny part of the hobby market, so anything which might inspire modelers in the "next level down" to join our ranks should be encouraged. The modeler who assembles four IC chisel-sided hoppers from Frank in the time it takes me to do one of Sunshine's might well decide to tackle a more complex resin kit next time. That enlarges the market for all of us, which should be a good thing.


Tom Madden.


Greg Martin
 

Bill and all,
 
I think it is a grand idea.
 
To echo Tom's remarks it should be regarded as a stepping stone for the modeler. 
 
How many of us bought the ACCURAIL gondola when it cam out? Resin is just the choice of way the model is produced not the culture of the modeler. What you decide to do with it after you get it is truly up to you, isn't it?
 
I think there is a good market for it, but it may be price sensitive at first but it will have a following.
 
I trust that Frank's soul will be there in the level of detail.
 
Only a few know how many of Aaron Gjermundson's resin ends and sills were sold for last years(2014) SHAKE_N_TAKE kits and there is still an interest in them. 
 
Hell, this might just be the first resin kit I finish... 3^)     (wink wink Bill ~ just kidding)
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 

In a message dated 2/12/2015 6:56:10 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

To clarify why this option would be offered, the kits are intended for those needing to build fleets of a certain prototype, especially gons and hoppers. IIRC one of the intended kits is a one-piece composite CB&Q gon offered as a kit years ago by Sunshine.


Bill Welch


Bill Welch
 

Elitist and i will add "Entitled" Tom, I totally agree with what you are saying. I might even buy the IC hopper and decal it for the NC&StL and ignore the fact that the length is not quite correct, but then I also prefer the Tichy 2-bay hopper. Shudder, call the Prototype Police.

Bill Welch


Clark Propst
 

Frank has always been in the admirable position of being able to make masters for cars he wanted. His personal line is no different. He needs lots of certain types of cars for his layout and doesn’t want to invent a ton of time assembling models. I think he’s been mulling this approach over for a few years. If no one buys them, he’ll just have more for himself  ;  ))
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Jim King
 

I agree with Frank’s idea.  Resin kits scare a lot of would-be builders, just like piles of etched brass sheets in a diesel kit do. 

 

With a little ingenuity, which Frank has in abundance, the ladder stiles and rungs can be designed with tapered sides that help create the illusion of separate pieces.  That’s 1 of the many advantages of using rubber molds vs. traditional metal molds:  negatively drafted, shallow features mean nothing.  If properly done, looking dead-on to the model will look just fine.  Only shadows may allude to something else but careful weathering can hide some of that too.

 

Good for you, Frank!

 

Jim King

(828) 777-5619

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 


Jim Betz
 

Hi,

Thought I'd point out a detail that may be affecting the widely
varied responses to Frank's decision ...

It's a good idea (to me) to offer different products with different
target buyers. And anything that gets more guys building models
with increased accuracy/level of detailing/etc. is also a good idea.
Here's a piece of evidence supporting that ... even one of the
most skilled builders we all know (Richard H.) had a large quantity
of UNbuilt resin models in his "hobby shop in the closet".
Perhaps even because they are resin kits - our resin models
seem to be easy to "buy more than you will ever build". Who
amongst us can say he doesn't have a supply of resin kits that
he couldn't finish in a year if he did nothing else but work on
those kits and focused on just that as his 'only' modeling
activity?

So if a resin mfgr was to offer some long missing car - such as
the flat car recently mentioned - but to do it -only- in the cast on
grabs version ... then those of us wanting the same car but who
don't want cast on grabs ===> are left wanting.

Perhaps the correct solution would be to offer the cast on grabs
version only as an alternative to an already produced model in
that resin mfgr's line?
If the mfgr can 'rework' his line and issue the cast on grabs
versions of even his products that are long out of production -
there is the possibility that he can increase his business with
much less time/effort.
- Jim


Tony Thompson
 

Jim Betz wrote:

Perhaps even because they are resin kits - our resin models seem to be easy to "buy more than you will ever build". Who amongst us can say he doesn't have a supply of resin kits that he couldn't finish in a year if he did nothing else but work on those kits and focused on just that as his 'only' modeling activity?

Me, for one, and I bet Clark Propst is the same. I simply realized I wanted to change being in the place you describe, Jim, and have built, traded or had someone build, essentially all the resin kits I had. I think there are three, maybe four, still here. Most of my 60 or so kits were traded or sold, but many were indeed built. This was one area where I did not particularly want to "die with the most unbuilt kits."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


steel77086@...
 

Tom,
 
I'm with you (and Frank Hodina). I do not have unlimited  time just for resin kit building,besides all the other facets of layout building (locomotives,structures,scenery,etc.). My wife's recent death also has me thinking about how much time I have left on this planet.  In addition, I already have some resin cars waiting  to be assembled, but I also have cars produced  which have molded on but thin profile grabs, so I can live with that if it means getting something not already produced by the bigger firms in this business. I look forward to his new products.
 
Vince Altiere
 

In a message dated 2/13/2015 1:10:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:


Everyone is missing the point. Frank has made a business decision to offer simplified cast resin models to those who want models not available in plastic but who lack the skill or time to deal with traditional resin kits. It's not an either/or situation - the alternative is not a high end resin kit, it's not offering one at all.


It's kind of an elitist attitude, don't you think, to suggest that resin kit manufacturers tailor all their offerings exclusively to those of us with the skills to assemble anything Westerfield, Sunshine or Speedwitch ever produced. We're a very tiny part of the hobby market, so anything which might inspire modelers in the "next level down" to join our ranks should be encouraged. The modeler who assembles four IC chisel-sided hoppers from Frank in the time it takes me to do one of Sunshine's might well decide to tackle a more complex resin kit next time. That enlarges the market for all o f us, which should be a good thing.


Tom Madden.


Armand Premo
 

Begs the question,what are some of those missing cars?I'll bet that the list would vary greatly with individual modelers.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "jimbetz jimbetz@jimbetz.com [STMFC]" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 12:01 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Resin Kits w/cast-on grabs/ladders


Hi,

Thought I'd point out a detail that may be affecting the widely
varied responses to Frank's decision ...

It's a good idea (to me) to offer different products with different
target buyers. And anything that gets more guys building models
with increased accuracy/level of detailing/etc. is also a good idea.
Here's a piece of evidence supporting that ... even one of the
most skilled builders we all know (Richard H.) had a large quantity
of UNbuilt resin models in his "hobby shop in the closet".
Perhaps even because they are resin kits - our resin models
seem to be easy to "buy more than you will ever build". Who
amongst us can say he doesn't have a supply of resin kits that
he couldn't finish in a year if he did nothing else but work on
those kits and focused on just that as his 'only' modeling
activity?

So if a resin mfgr was to offer some long missing car - such as
the flat car recently mentioned - but to do it -only- in the cast on
grabs version ... then those of us wanting the same car but who
don't want cast on grabs ===> are left wanting.

Perhaps the correct solution would be to offer the cast on grabs
version only as an alternative to an already produced model in
that resin mfgr's line?
If the mfgr can 'rework' his line and issue the cast on grabs
versions of even his products that are long out of production -
there is the possibility that he can increase his business with
much less time/effort.
- Jim


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Pierre Oliver
 

Really Armand?
Way to kick over the can. :-)

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

On 2/13/2015 2:59 PM, 'Armand' armprem2@surfglobal.net [STMFC] wrote:
Begs the question,what are some of those missing cars?I'll bet that the list
would vary greatly with individual modelers.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimbetz jimbetz@jimbetz.com [STMFC]" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 12:01 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Resin Kits w/cast-on grabs/ladders


Hi,

Thought I'd point out a detail that may be affecting the widely
varied responses to Frank's decision ...

It's a good idea (to me) to offer different products with different
target buyers. And anything that gets more guys building models
with increased accuracy/level of detailing/etc. is also a good idea.
Here's a piece of evidence supporting that ... even one of the
most skilled builders we all know (Richard H.) had a large quantity
of UNbuilt resin models in his "hobby shop in the closet".
Perhaps even because they are resin kits - our resin models
seem to be easy to "buy more than you will ever build". Who
amongst us can say he doesn't have a supply of resin kits that
he couldn't finish in a year if he did nothing else but work on
those kits and focused on just that as his 'only' modeling
activity?

So if a resin mfgr was to offer some long missing car - such as
the flat car recently mentioned - but to do it -only- in the cast on
grabs version ... then those of us wanting the same car but who
don't want cast on grabs ===> are left wanting.

Perhaps the correct solution would be to offer the cast on grabs
version only as an alternative to an already produced model in
that resin mfgr's line?
If the mfgr can 'rework' his line and issue the cast on grabs
versions of even his products that are long out of production -
there is the possibility that he can increase his business with
much less time/effort.
- Jim


------------------------------------

------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links





-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4257/9105 - Release Date: 02/13/15

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