Penn Salt tank cars (TRIX) comments & questions


Bill Welch
 

As the mood strikes me I pick up the TRIX insulated tank car and work on it. I sorted out how to mount a North American style coupler and I have been working on the U/F, mainly making new brake rodding and a line form the triple valve to the brake cylinder. As it sits on it trucks it looks too "leggy" but I think this might be an optical illusion because the center sill does not extend to the bolsters on either end, so I am going to use strip styrene to fill these voids. I also need to build a center anchor. The model does not have a bottom outlet and I am curious if these cars had them?


The car has a bright blue center portion the extends the length of the bottom sheet, including the tank saddles. The rest of the tank including the ends are a bright yellow. "PENN SALT" is "stenciled" against the yellow, making the car impossible to miss. I am wondering what these cars carried so that I might have a clue as to how to weather it to tone it down? Advice welcomed.


These cars would be a good project for the "Tank Car Division" of Resin Car Works to consider.


Bill Welch


Ed Hawkins
 


On Mar 25, 2015, at 9:33 AM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

The car has a bright blue center portion the extends the length of the bottom sheet, including the tank saddles. The rest of the tank including the ends are a bright yellow. "PENN SALT" is "stenciled" against the yellow, making the car impossible to miss. I am wondering what these cars carried so that I might have a clue as to how to weather it to tone it down? Advice welcomed.

Bill,
Cars of this type carried chlorine. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Bill Welch
 

Thanks Ed.

Anyone, would chlorine have been unloaded via the bottom or top of the car and would it have left any particular type of residue on the car?

Bill Welch
 


Tim O'Connor
 

Bill

Chlorine, or Ammonia -- Penn Salt manufactured both, and both required tank
cars built to withstand very high pressure. The only prototype photo I've seen
of the yellow car with blue band was a larger ammonia tank car, 11k to 12k
(not sure) like the Atlas model.

Tim O'Connor

--------------------------------

The car has a bright blue center portion the extends the length of the bottom sheet,
including the tank saddles. The rest of the tank including the ends are a bright yellow.
"PENN SALT" is "stenciled" against the yellow, making the car impossible to miss. I am
wondering what these cars carried so that I might have a clue as to how to weather it
to tone it down? Advice welcomed.


Tim O'Connor
 


I'm REALLY hoping that Frank will want to do any of the Ethyl, Dupont or Dow
"antiknock" tank cars -- Spectacular paint schemes, very common cars, found
all over the country wherever gasoline was produced (or blended) -- Such cars
were used from the 1920's to the 1990's.

Another great tank car type would be the 3k-4k (?) bromine tank cars -- tiny
little things. :-)

Tim O'Connor

---------------------------------

 These cars would be a good project for the "Tank Car Division" of Resin Car Works to consider.
 Bill Welch


Andy Miller
 

I kit bashed a 4kgal Ethyl tank car several years ago from the AHM "Olde
Time" tank car and an Athearn chemical tank car dome. I had to make my own
decals.

See:

http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/modeling/models/millera/ebax3064main.html

To get a sense of how small this car is look at the trucks and couplers!



Andy Miller





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 11:28 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Penn Salt tank cars (TRIX) comments & questions






I'm REALLY hoping that Frank will want to do any of the Ethyl, Dupont or Dow
"antiknock" tank cars -- Spectacular paint schemes, very common cars, found
all over the country wherever gasoline was produced (or blended) -- Such
cars
were used from the 1920's to the 1990's.

Another great tank car type would be the 3k-4k (?) bromine tank cars -- tiny
little things. :-)

Tim O'Connor

---------------------------------

These cars would be a good project for the "Tank Car Division" of Resin Car
Works to consider.
Bill Welch


Tom Birkett <tnbirke@...>
 

Ed

Effective Jan 1918 Class V cars are specified and they had to be of welded construction with jackets. All valves were and are on the top. The domes are very small because the volume for the thermal expansion of the product is in the tank shell.

Tom Birkett-Bartlesville, OK



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 10:16 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Penn Salt tank cars (TRIX) comments & questions





Thanks Ed.



Anyone, would chlorine have been unloaded via the bottom or top of the car and would it have left any particular type of residue on the car?



Bill Welch







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


jon miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 3/25/2015 9:03 AM, 'Andrew Miller' aslmmiller@... [STMFC] wrote:
I kit bashed a 4kgal Ethyl tank car several years ago from the AHM "Olde
Time" tank car and an Athearn chemical tank car dome.

��� My old brain seems to remember one of these cars written up in one of the RR Mags (maybe RMC?).

-- 

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Tony Thompson
 

Effective Jan 1918 Class V cars are specified and they had to be of welded construction with jackets. All valves were and are on the top. The domes are very small because the volume for the thermal expansion of the product is in the tank shell.


   Cars like this, containing pressurized gas cargoes, do NOT have an expansion dome. Thermal expansion is expressed by a rise in pressure, not by actual expansion of the cargo. The gas is pumped in and pumped out through valves in the bonnet. (There is no bottom outlet.) It really should not be called a "dome" because it does not serve the purpose of an expansion dome. It only contains valves and fittings for cargo handling. In Ed Kaminski's book on AC&F tank cars, there are several photos in the final chapter of the interior of these bonnets.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Tom Madden
 

Tim wrote :
> I'm REALLY hoping that Frank will want to do any of
> the Ethyl, Dupont or Dow "antiknock" tank cars --
> Spectacular paint schemes, very common cars, found
> all over the country wherever gasoline was produced
> (or blended) -- Such cars were used from the 1920's to the 1990's.
 
Frank's next tank car, as mentioned in MRH a couple of issues ago, is a 10K insulated tank which will go on the same underframe as his 8K acid tank. The neat (and frustrating) thing is, with insulated tanks gallonage and length don't always define the size of the tank. You need to know the insulation thickness. Bringing Pennsylvania Salt back into the discussion, the Penn Salt 8K liquid caustic tank wrapped with 6" of insulation (78 + 12) is essentially the same diameter as a conventional 10K tank wrapped with 2" of insulation (87 + 4). So there will be at least three domes for the "10K" tank: 60" & 67" diameter (actually 68" & 75" when you account for the insulation, wall thicknesses of the dome and jacket, and dead space between the insulation and jacket), and the large diameter but very short Penn Salt dome (69" x 13.5" high).

> Another great tank car type would be the 3k-4k (?)
> bromine tank cars -- tiny little things. :-)

There was a beautiful little HO bromine tank on trainorders.com a couple of days ago. Too new for us but spectacular workmanship. Modeler goes by the handle "tankcarsrule" and signs as "Bobby".
 
Tom Madden


Allan Smith
 

The 1958 ORER page 674 Lists cars TELX 236-239 asTPI ICC105A 500 cars with a 80,000 lbs capacity, note A  Cars in this series used for transportation of Liquid Chlorine only.

Al Smith
Sonora CA



On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 11:44 AM, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Effective Jan 1918 Class V cars are specified and they had to be of welded construction with jackets. All valves were and are on the top. The domes are very small because the volume for the thermal expansion of the product is in the tank shell.

   Cars like this, containing pressurized gas cargoes, do NOT have an expansion dome. Thermal expansion is expressed by a rise in pressure, not by actual expansion of the cargo. The gas is pumped in and pumped out through valves in the bonnet. (There is no bottom outlet.) It really should not be called a "dome" because it does not serve the purpose of an expansion dome. It only contains valves and fittings for cargo handling. In Ed Kaminski's book on AC&F tank cars, there are several photos in the final chapter of the interior of these bonnets.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







Todd Horton
 

I’m pretty sure that’s Bobby Pitts, he usually comes to the Savannah RPM meet. He has done some fantastic work on modern era cars.  Todd Horton

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 4:12 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Penn Salt tank cars (TRIX) comments & questions

 

 


There was a beautiful little HO bromine tank on trainorders.com a couple of days ago. Too new for us but spectacular workmanship. Modeler goes by the handle "tankcarsrule" and signs as "Bobby".

 

Tom Madden


Tim O'Connor
 

Tom

That sounds like Bobby Pitts. He has fabricated a large number of
fabulous modern tank cars, and even scratchbuilds the trucks when he
needs to!

This is a sampling of his work --
https://www.flickr.com/photos/53243414@N00/sets/72157622308273777/

Tim O'Connor

-----------------------------------

There was a beautiful little HO bromine tank on trainorders.com a couple of days ago.
Too new for us but spectacular workmanship. Modeler goes by the handle "tankcarsrule"
and signs as "Bobby".

Tom Madden


Richard White
 

On Wed Mar 25 2015, Bill Welch asked:
 
Anyone, would chlorine ... have left any particular type of residue on the car?

No, it's an element and a gas at atmospheric pressure. However, it is quite aggressive and in solution in water is a bleach so it might affect the paintwork near the discharge out let.
 
Maybe someone else can tell us more
 
Richard White


Carl Gustafson
 

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 09:40:51AM +0200, 'Richard White' rhwhite@... [STMFC] wrote:
On Wed Mar 25 2015, Bill Welch asked:

Anyone, would chlorine ... have left any particular type of residue on the car?


No, it's an element and a gas at atmospheric pressure. However, it is quite aggressive and in solution in water is a bleach so it might affect the paintwork near the discharge out let.

Maybe someone else can tell us more
Well, residual chlorine gas. You won't get that out unless you purge the tank with an inert (and
dry) gas very thoroughly.

Carl Gustafson


Aley, Jeff A
 

Hi Richard,

 

               I think you’re asking about weathering effects on the OUTSIDE of the car.  Because chlorine is so dangerous, I would expect that any leakage would be dealt with immediately.  In other words, no load-specific weathering.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 12:41 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Penn Salt tank cars (TRIX) comments & questions

 

 

On Wed Mar 25 2015, Bill Welch asked:

 

Anyone, would chlorine ... have left any particular type of residue on the car?


No, it's an element and a gas at atmospheric pressure. However, it is quite aggressive and in solution in water is a bleach so it might affect the paintwork near the discharge out let.

 

Maybe someone else can tell us more

 

Richard White


Tony Thompson
 

               I think you’re asking about weathering effects on the OUTSIDE of the car.  Because chlorine is so dangerous, I would expect that any leakage would be dealt with immediately.  In other words, no load-specific weathering.


      And if it leaks out, it's a gas and disperses into the air, rather than draining down the car side.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history