completing a Richard Hendrickson freight car


Tony Thompson
 

One of the projects on Richard's workbench after his passing was a Wheeling & Lake Erie gondola, and I decided to finish it up. A description of that effort, along with the relevant prototype information, is contained in a post to my blog. If you're interested, it's at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/05/completing-richard-hendrickson-freight.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Tony.

 

I have downloaded and copied the information on your blog post, and since I have one of the Mantua cars and WLE is of some appeal to me, I may eventually get around to doing this car.

 

Bit as is all too often the case, I’m distracted by the box car in the prototype photo, because of the end design.  It doesn’t look very much like a “standard” dreadnaught (knowing there’s not really any such thing) but more like a Hutchins end.  Do you or does any of the esteemed readers of this list know anything about that car?

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2015 6:16 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [STMFC] completing a Richard Hendrickson freight car

 

 

One of the projects on Richard's workbench after his passing was a Wheeling & Lake Erie gondola, and I decided to finish it up. A description of that effort, along with the relevant prototype information, is contained in a post to my blog. If you're interested, it's at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/05/completing-richard-hendrickson-freight.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


rwitt_2000
 

Schuyler,

That end on the WLE box car are what I call Pullman-Standard builder's ends. These seem to be used on cars built by Pullman around 1941. These cars have been discussed by this group.

Owner I have traced included the W&LE, the B&O and the KCS.  I believe  Smokey Mountain Model Works once offered a model of the W&LE box car when they did HO scale models. The Wheeling cars has square corner posts while the B&O class M-55a and M-55b had "round" corner posts version. Both the KCS and the B&O also ordered 50-ft box cars with a similar end that had an additional rib at the top as these cars had an IH of 10'-6" vs. the 40-ft cards that had an IH of 10'-0".

The cars were essentially AAR 1937 standard, but in the case of the B&O they had different ends (P-S), different roofs (plain panel with a recess for latitudinal running boards), and different underframes (Duryea).

I just found a drawing on my computer for the WLE roof panels and they also appear to be recessed.

I hope this helps. Others may have more to add.

Bob Witt


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Bob.  I didn’t realize that early PS ends (which is my take-away from your post) had such tapered ends to their corrugations as that.  Or that they were as flat at the apogee of the curvature as these are, or at least appear to be.  Certainly later PS ends have very much rounder ribs in cross section.

 

Knowing that Hutchins ends varied quite a bit over the duration of their manufacture, and with the rather pronounced triangular taper at the ends, I dismissed the idea that they would be PS ends.

 

Schuyler

 

Schuyler,

That end on the WLE box car are what I call Pullman-Standard builder's ends. These seem to be used on cars built by Pullman around 1941. These cars have been discussed by this group.

Owner I have traced included the W&LE, the B&O and the KCS.  I believe  Smokey Mountain Model Works once offered a model of the W&LE box car when they did HO scale models. The Wheeling cars has square corner posts while the B&O class M-55a and M-55b had "round" corner posts version. Both the KCS and the B&O also ordered 50-ft box cars with a similar end that had an additional rib at the top as these cars had an IH of 10'-6" vs. the 40-ft cards that had an IH of 10'-0".

The cars were essentially AAR 1937 standard, but in the case of the B&O they had different ends (P-S), different roofs (plain panel with a recess for latitudinal running boards), and different underframes (Duryea).

I just found a drawing on my computer for the WLE roof panels and they also appear to be recessed.

I hope this helps. Others may have more to add.

Bob Witt


Tim O'Connor
 

Schuyler and Bob

Those ends belong to what John Nehrich once coined as the "PS-0" end, a name
that stuck for a while. Here is the list of original owners of these all-welded
Pullman Standard cars.

B&LE 90101- 90200 blt 1938 6' 6p SUP lot 5584
CGW 90000- 90049 blt 1938 6' 6p SUP lot 5584
UP 186000-186049 blt 1938 6' 6p SUP lot 5584
RI 149051- blt 1939 6' 6p SUP
NKP 20000- 20199 blt 1940 6' 7p SUP lot 5604A
PM 84000- 84099 blt 1940 6' 7p SUP lot 5604B
W&LE 26000- 26199 blt 1940 6' 7p SUP lot 5604C

Models of these cars, cast by Steve Funaro, were produced for the RPI store.
F&C now offers them directly as kits 6350, 6351, 6352 which represent both the
9-rib and 10-rib prototype ends as appropriate for each owner.

Brass models of the cars (which included a lovely early Universal hand brake
wheel!) were imported by AWE (Anthony Wenzel Enterprises aka Oriental).

As Bob wrote similar ends were also applied to other cars (e.g. B&O, KCS). The
Tennessee Central had some cars with very similar ends. I've never heard of the
recessed roof panels for the laterals but it's possible. The roofs for the above
cars had a kind of overhang (perhaps ZU eave, I dunno) as well.

Greg Komar produced beautiful dry transfers for CGW and that's what I used
on my AWE model.

Tim O'Connor


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That end on the WLE box car are what I call Pullman-Standard builder's ends. These seem to be used on cars built by Pullman around 1941. These cars have been discussed by this group.

Owner I have traced included the W&LE, the B&O and the KCS. I believe Smokey Mountain Model Works once offered a model of the W&LE box car when they did HO scale models. The Wheeling cars has square corner posts while the B&O class M-55a and M-55b had "round" corner posts version. Both the KCS and the B&O also ordered 50-ft box cars with a similar end that had an additional rib at the top as these cars had an IH of 10'-6" vs. the 40-ft cards that had an IH of 10'-0".

The cars were essentially AAR 1937 standard, but in the case of the B&O they had different ends (P-S), different roofs (plain panel with a recess for latitudinal running boards), and different underframes (Duryea).

I just found a drawing on my computer for the WLE roof panels and they also appear to be recessed.

I hope this helps. Others may have more to add.

Bob Witt


Bill Welch
 

Actually Smokey Mountain never did the WLE car but rather the Tennessee Central car with the Pullman ends. In fact My model is ready for the the paint shop. The kit is now part of The WrigtTrac line. I think Stan R. offers these ends.

Bill Welch


Andy Sperandeo
 

Thanks Tony, that's a nice way to preserve and enjoy a memory. – Andy


rwitt_2000
 

Tim,

I know John's designation has stuck, but these ends Pullman-Standard applied to a group of freight cars produced around 1941 I content were different. They were two piece and followed traditional riveted construction of the time. They were nothing like those applied to the experimental welded light-weight box cars produced earlier except maybe for the shape of the corrugations. To distinguish them some of us refer to them as "car builder" ends.

As I stated in my post the B&O M-55a and M-55b as well as all class M-55 box cars were based upon the AAR 1937 box car. In this period Pullman-Standard built many box cars following the AAR 1937 standard. The B&O specified different ends, roof and underframe.

The B&O used recess roof panels under the latitudinal running boards because of their very restrictive clearances. It is part of the reason all the B&O general purpose box cars had a IH of 10-ft including their PS-1 box cars built from parts in the late 1950s.

There exists a memo discussing an error made in the M-55c design where the latitudinal running boards were ripped off during their first trip through the tunnels on the Parkersburg Sub-division. An engineering change was issued to correct the problem.

Bob Witt


rwitt_2000
 

Bill,

Thanks for the correction. Yes, you are correct it was the Tennessee Central. I just couldn't remember and couldn't find my notes.

Bob


Paolo Roffo
 

Tony --

Any idea what Richard used to replace the stock Mantua ends?

TIA
Paolo roffo


Tony Thompson
 

Any idea what Richard used to replace the stock Mantua ends?


       I'm pretty sure they are Accurail ends. The Dreadnaught ribs are correctly rendered on both sides.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Bill Welch
 

I think Tony is correct. If fact I went back and looked that the prototype photo of WLE 45153. Holding my Accurail AAR Gondola up against that photo, I think this WLE gon is a standard AAR 41' gondola.

Bill Welch


rwitt_2000
 

To the Group:

I really made a muddle of my comments about these box car ends. Offline someone kindly pointed out my error.

Maybe I need new glasses, but after looking at the photo with the end view of the WLE box car again, I see it is some type of 4/4 end with some very unusual corrugation patterns on the end. The manufacturer of these ends I now admit is unknown to me. The Pullman-Standard ends I discussed were 4/5 for 40-ft cars and 5/5 for the 50-ft cars with similar, but smaller corrugations.

Bob Witt


rwitt_2000
 

Could they be Detail Associates GS gondola ends?

Isn't the Accurail model very close to the WLE gondola as is so it leaves little reason to graph Accurail ends to an old Mantua body?

Bob Witt


Tony Thompson
 

Bob Witt wrote:

 

Could they be Detail Associates GS gondola ends?


      No. Richard and I both used those ends for various projects, and they certainly are not DA ends.

Isn't the Accurail model very close to the WLE gondola as is so it leaves little reason to graph Accurail ends to an old Mantua body?


      I understand your point, but can't answer. Possibly he had the Mantua body already cut for new ends, then along came the Accurail ends? I don't know. To really know about the grafting, I guess you would have to take it up with Richard

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Tim O'Connor
 

Bob

As far as the W&LE car number it looks pretty clear to me -- 2411x --
However according to Ed Hawkins email 3-13-2013 W&LE series 24000-24199
were ACF-built cars with Pullman roofs and 4/5 ends (but NOT dreadnaught
ends, and Brian Carlson says they were "car builder" ends).

Then Pullman built 24200-24499 as nearly identical cars to 24000-24199.
However I have never seen a photo of any of the cars, and Ed's only reference
for them he cited was an equipment diagram. I think NKP sold or rebuilt most
(if not all) of the "PS-0" cars before 1960, some as TOFC flat cars.

Anyway, maybe those weird 4/4 ends are actually some kind of ACF end?

Tim O'Connor

Maybe I need new glasses, but after looking at the photo with the end view of the WLE box car again, I see it is some type of 4/4 end with some very unusual corrugation patterns on the end. The manufacturer of these ends I now admit is unknown to me. The Pullman-Standard ends I discussed were 4/5 for 40-ft cars and 5/5 for the 50-ft cars with similar, but smaller corrugations.

Bob Witt


Ed Hawkins
 


On May 26, 2015, at 2:16 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

As far as the W&LE car number it looks pretty clear to me -- 2411x --
However according to Ed Hawkins email 3-13-2013 W&LE series 24000-24199
were ACF-built cars with Pullman roofs and 4/5 ends (but NOT dreadnaught
ends, and Brian Carlson says they were "car builder" ends).

Then Pullman built 24200-24499 as nearly identical cars to 24000-24199.
However I have never seen a photo of any of the cars, and Ed's only reference
for them he cited was an equipment diagram. I think NKP sold or rebuilt most
(if not all) of the "PS-0" cars before 1960, some as TOFC flat cars.

Anyway, maybe those weird 4/4 ends are actually some kind of ACF end?

Tim,
With regard to WLE 24000-24199, built ca. 1-41, ACF lot 2137, any earlier reference I made about these cars having 4-5 ends was incorrect. The builder photo of WLE 24080 and the ACF bill of materials show 4 corrugations on each of the the top and bottom end sheets. These cars did have Pullman-Standard flat-riveted roofs, which was an oddity for any box car built by ACF. 

These ends were unique used only on this series of WLE cars. The corrugations were straight across for the majority of the end width, then tapered in a "triangular fashion" to the end’s square corners with the tips of the corrugations wrapping around the corners. 

The ACF drawing collection at the Museum of Transportation has two drawings that pertain to the ends of these WLE cars, and they were used only for lot 2137. 
End Arrangement - 5158617
Steel End Details - 4158269

There are a total of 10 drawings that apply to lot 2137 including a general arrg’t, brake arrg’t, roof arrg’t, truck arrg’t (National Type “B”), side and end ladders, and steel details (underframe parts & various other steel parts). Copies of these drawings can be purchased from the MOT. Send me an email Off List if you’re interested. Teresa Miletello, MOT library curator, is the person to contact regarding drawing copies and the cost. 

A series of 1937 AAR box cars, ITC 6100-6299, built ca. 4-41 in lot 2185 had similar ACF Corrugated Ends with 4 corrugations top & bottom but not exactly the same as WLE 24000-24199. The builder photo of ITC 6299 shows the corrugations tapering to blend with the end corners rather than wrapping around the corners. An ACF drawing for the Steel End Details for lot 2185 is 4158888. 

The Pullman-Standard WLE cars 24200-24499 had Pullman Corrugated ends that were very much the same as the ends used on TC 7900-7999, which have been previously discussed. A Pullman-Standard builder photo of WLE 24208 that nicely shows the “B” end is available from Jay Williams. WLE 23000-23499, built by Ralston Steel Car Co. were 1937 AAR box cars built in 1944-1945 having 4-5 Dreadnaught ends. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



Allan Smith
 

There are photos of ACFX 30000 in the 1940 Car Builders Cyclopedia page 125,129,404. Could this be the prtotype for the series built for the WLE? 24000-24199.

Al Smith
Sonora CA