Cement in bags, was RE: Malt Shipments
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Schuyler Larrabee
Tony, as a materials guy, I am sure you are aware that concrete mixes were specified as so many bags of cement along with volumetric measures for the aggregate and sand, so that lends credence to the idea that cement was shipped in uniformly sized bags.
This allows me a chance to vent about a pet peeve: the difference between cement and concrete. People talk about “cement walks” and foundations made of cement. They are made of concrete, which is a mixture of cement, sand and aggregate. To talk about a cement walk is tantamount to talking about a walk made of glue.
Schuyler (who feels a little better now . . .)
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 3:24 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Malt Shipments
Bob Chaparro wrote:
Before covered hopper cars, was malt shipped in bulk in boxcars, sacked in boxcars or both?
I would guess sacked. It is remarkable in hindsight how much "bulk material" was routinely put into 100-pound bags (or some other size), shipped to destination, and all of it taken out of those sacks. This was even true for cement for dam projects, and I would guess malt was the same. In the 1930s, there were experiments on a number of railroads with bulk materials in box cars (grain, of course, already moved that way, but cement, sugar, and other materials were the subject of experimentation). Covered hoppers soon met that need, though several roads had essentially built their own out of box cars, by putting in slope sheets, top filling hatches, and bottom outlets.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Tony Thompson
Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
True, though the "idea" is not just a suggestion, it is based on both shipping records and on photos of men loading cement sacks into box cars. There are very similar photos of men loading 100-pound sacks of sugar in box cars. And of course those concrete formulas existed because the cement arrived that way, not because anything about materials ratios REQUIRED the cement to be in bags. I share your peeve, Schuyler, about "cement walks," etc. but unfortunately it is just one of many, many misnomers in popular use. And after all, cement is the key ingredient -- though from that viewpoint I suppose we should call a wooden deck a "nail deck."Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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railsnw@...
Also remember cement was shipped in bulk in boxcars. When Seattle City Light was building the Diablo and Ross Dam's on the Skagit River in Washington state the cement was produced at the cement plants in Concrete, WA. It was loaded in bulk in Great Northern wood double sheath box cars and sent over the GN to Rockport, WA and than handled by Seattle City Light's Skagit River Railway to the Diablo and Ross Dam sites. This occurred from the late 1920's to late 1940's. At Diablo the cement was shoveled out of the cars into bunkers by hand and the workers got paid double for this miserable job. When Ross Dam was built large vacuum hoses sucked the cement out. Finally when the Ross Power House was built they switched to cement in covered hopper cars. Did other large construction projects get cement delivered this way? Richard Wilkens |
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Clark Propst
Cement was originally shipped in barrels. Many cement company’s logos were
round so they could be stamped on the top of the barrel. Cement was also sold by
the barrel well after they were replaced by sacks, first cloth, then paper.
Regular cement went/is in 94 lb. bags. Four bags equal one barrel.
Clark
Propst Mason City Iowa |
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midrly
Um, Tony--
That deck would be a "wood" deck, not a "wooden" deck--wouldn't it?? (The use of the words "would, wood, wooden, wouldn't" were noticed after I wrote this. :) Steve Lucas. |
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Tony Thompson
Steve Lucas wrote:
My dictionary, admittedly American, defines "wooden" as meaning "made of or consisting of wood." Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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RICH CHAPIN
Schuyler is right. Most people have now clue that cement is just an ingredient of concrete, and give a “look’ when you point that out.
1 bag of cement = 1 cubic foot of cement = 94 lbs
Atlas cement, Northampton PA produced all the cement for the Panama Canal. All that cement was shipped in cotton sacks, and those sacks were returned to Atlas to be refilled. Lehigh Valley and Lehigh and New England [hence CRRNJ]served Atlas. {BTW; the Atlas Museum is very interesting]
4.5 million cubic yards of cement were used for the canal; that is a lot of boxcars!!!
Rich Chapin
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Rick Woods
This reminds me of an axiom shared with me by a civil engineer when I was in college -- cement is to concrete as flour is to bread.
Rick Woods BS Ceramic Eng '86 UIUC |
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midrly
Po-ta-toes, po-tat-oes as far as I am concerned. At least we are not trying the "throw a turnout" ;)
Steve Lucas. |
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