Tru-Color and Accu-Paint reducer


Andy Carlson
 

Hello-

I was convinced years ago by a Jim Six article on Accu-paint. Jim said that he reduced all of his Accu-paint with automotive lacquer thinner (much better than the hardware store lacquer thinner, which I use for clean-up) for his Accu-Paint jobs. Although a friend of mine gets good results with the hardware store thinner).

I use "Hot Shop"automotive acrylic lacquer reducer. Called hot shop for use in hot weather so the lacquer won't dry before it lands on the intended surface, creating a dull finish. It is also called "Hi-Gloss" because its lower volitility stays wet longer producing a nice gloss.

I am very satisfied with these results over the years, and I see no reason to change now. A gallon can is not too expensive, about what a quart of Tru-color reducer would cost. The Accu-Paint thinner had alcohol and acetone, which I believe automotive lacquer reducers also have.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


From: "'Nelson Moyer' ku0a@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2015 5:05 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Tru Color Paint Stripper?

 
Allen,

While Tru Color is acetone based, I wouldn’t rush out to buy acetone as a diluent. Acetone is good for cleanup, but I stay with the manufacturer’s thinner for dilutions. Tru Color’s web site says that you may lose the gloss finish if you use acetone for a dilution thinner. Since I haven’t tried diluting with acetone, I can’t speak to the results. The solvent base in Tru Color is more complicated than just acetone.

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2015 4:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tru Color Paint Stripper?

FWIW, I use Home Depot Mineral Spirits for my thinner. I have good success with both Floquil and Tru Color. Evidently not together in small amounts. Nelson, thanks for telling me that Tru color is Acetone based. I will by a can of that and see if it works better than mineral spirits. As I do a lot of airbrushing, my wallet finds that this is the best way to go.

Allen

On Friday, May 29, 2015 1:11 PM, "Denny Anspach danspachmd@... [STMFC]" wrote:

This has been an interesting thread. I too believe that the results that Nelson reports are from too high pressure. The pressure that I find best with TruColor is about 15-20 psi.

Increasingly, Tru-Color is my go-to paint, very forgiving and producing a lovely smooth finish. I too use an Iwata Eclipse, but I use removable 0.5 oz. bottles with a Paasche double-action coupling rather than a gravity feed ( I am not certain why feed type would make any difference, however). I thin Tru-Color paint 50/50 with their own brand thinner. Other thinners might work, but IMHO the risk/cost ratio is not worth investigating.

I am not above stripping flawed paint finishes, but I believe that I would first try the other simpler methods already advised.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD

Okoboji, IA






Tim O'Connor
 

Andy

I've used a different automotive lacquer thinner, but not with Accupaint,
since I still have a good supply of the AP thinner (I bought 5 or 6 of the
large bottles at some point). But when I run out I'll definitely try the
automotive products. Usually when AP gives a dull finish it just means I
need to add thinner.

Tim O'

I was convinced years ago by a Jim Six article on Accu-paint. Jim said that he reduced all of his Accu-paint with automotive lacquer thinner (much better than the hardware store lacquer thinner, which I use for clean-up) for his Accu-Paint jobs. Although a friend of mine gets good results with the hardware store thinner).

I use "Hot Shop"automotive acrylic lacquer reducer. Called hot shop for use in hot weather so the lacquer won't dry before it lands on the intended surface, creating a dull finish. It is also called "Hi-Gloss" because its lower volitility stays wet longer producing a nice gloss.

I am very satisfied with these results over the years, and I see no reason to change now. A gallon can is not too expensive, about what a quart of Tru-color reducer would cost. The Accu-Paint thinner had alcohol and acetone, which I believe automotive lacquer reducers also have.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


mwbauers
 

Andy,

Does the stuff work nice with plastics ?

To give you a benchmark on that with me.......... I even get ordinary ScaleCoat paint [type-one] to work okay on plastics.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA

On May 29, 2015, at 9:01 PM, Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Hello-

I was convinced years ago by a Jim Six article on Accu-paint. Jim said that he reduced all of his Accu-paint with automotive lacquer thinner (much better than the hardware store lacquer thinner, which I use for clean-up) for his Accu-Paint jobs. Although a friend of mine gets good results with the hardware store thinner).

I use "Hot Shop"automotive acrylic lacquer reducer. Called hot shop for use in hot weather so the lacquer won't dry before it lands on the intended surface, creating a dull finish. It is also called "Hi-Gloss" because its lower volitility stays wet longer producing a nice gloss.

I am very satisfied with these results over the years, and I see no reason to change now. A gallon can is not too expensive, about what a quart of Tru-color reducer would cost. The Accu-Paint thinner had alcohol and acetone, which I believe automotive lacquer reducers also have.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Scott H. Haycock
 

But Andy,
You're talking about Accu-Paint. I thought the conversation was about Tru-Color.

Are you saying that these two brands are similar enough that automotive lacquer thinner works equally well with each?

The idea of a reducer, IIRC, also referred to as an extender, to slow the drying time, is common to many other paint usages, like furniture, woodwork, etc. Have you tried the Hi-Gloss with Tru-Color? Do you know who manufactures Hi-Gloss? It sounds like a viable product on several levels in our hobby. I want some!

Scott Haycock  


 

Hello-

I was convinced years ago by a Jim Six article on Accu-paint. Jim said that he reduced all of his Accu-paint with automotive lacquer thinner (much better than the hardware store lacquer thinner, which I use for clean-up) for his Accu-Paint jobs. Although a friend of mine gets good results with the hardware store thinner).

I use "Hot Shop"automotive acrylic lacquer reducer. Called hot shop for use in hot weather so the lacquer won't dry before it lands on the intended surface, creating a dull finish. It is also called "Hi-Gloss" because its lower volitility stays wet longer producing a nice gloss.

I am very satisfied with these results over the years, and I see no reason to change now. A gallon can is not too expensive, about what a quart of Tru-color reducer would cost. The Accu-Paint thinner had alcohol and acetone, which I believe automotive lacquer reducers also have.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



Tim O'Connor
 

Scott you must be new :-)

Accupaint, Star (P-B-L), and TruColor are (were) all made by the same
industrial supplier and are essentially the same although ratios of thinner
and retarder do seem to vary. (I used to watch George Bishop bottle his
Accupaint and he would dilute the paint while bottling.) The supplier was
originally 'discovered' by Fred Becker of Front Range -- good to know if
you ever need to strip an old Front Range model.

Tim O'Connor

---------------------------------

Are you saying that these two brands are similar enough that
automotive lacquer thinner works equally well with each?
Scott Haycock


Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

Relative to the real time costs  of the paint that we actually apply on our models, not to mention the imputed value of the efforts that we expend in doing so, even the cost of the small amounts of the most expensive thinner/reducer that we use is almost nothing, i.e. nothing. In this regard, my view has been for some time is to just use the thinner that the paint manufacturer recommends, and not spend time wringing my hands about it.  I do wince at the up front prices to be paid for these OEM thinners, but I also have not been disappointed in their use; and have been comforted that a little DOES in fact go a very long way- certainly ameliorating the investment.

Now, I do use up lacquer thinner by  the gallon(s) for cleaning, and in a pinch for thinning/reducing. One used to be able to go to the automotive paint stores (DuPont, Pittsburgh, etc.) and choose among a selection of very high quality lacquer thinners of differing characteristics (I once would purchase what I needed in five gallon cans). At least in California, one can no longer do so.  Commercial lacquer painting has almost disappeared, and like other volatile solvents suppressed by the government, only generic solvents in relative small amounts can be easily obtained retail-  and I do not trust them for fine painting.

Other observations:  I have long valued AP for the richness of its colors, its forgiving nature, and the very real fact that I am able (and do) use it to the very last drop, i.e.  there is almost no wastage, none, nada (if it thickens, or even dries, it can almost always be fully reconstituted it  to full use with thinner).  How many, many clotted half-filled bottles of  Floquil and ScaleCoat (ouch!)  paints have I discarded, too often after-the-fact discovering their bad characteristics on the surface of a valued model. 

TrueColor is the true inheritor of AP inasmuch as the owners report to me that they  purchased from the AP owner  (George Bishop?) or his estate all the fundamentals of the business. My experience so far with TC certainly bears this out. 

IWATA Eclipse air brush:  For 50 years, I was happy as a clam with a versatile single action Paasche H airbrush, a classic and quite venerable still-popular work of American art (whose utility is attested to by being virtually unchanged for that half a century). Then, at an NMRA convention, Dr. Bob Church and I  were both seduced by a huckster demonstrating an IWATA Eclipse double action airbrush, asking if we wanted to try it?  Well, we did, and five minutes later (no more), both of us respectively shelled out the money and walked away with a new boxed sets.   When I got home, I had buyer’s remorse, and set it aside, not to be opened and tried for some months.  Well, I did at last set it up, and I have not looked back since. What a fine instrument!  It is gorgeous to look at and handle, and it works and cleans up like a charm. It is a total pleasure to use.

The venerable and also lovely Paasche H owes me nothing, and it now resides looking new in its original box, again ready to use if called upon. 

Denny


   
Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA






Andy Carlson
 



From: "'Scott H. Haycock ' who wrote:

 
But Andy,

The idea of a reducer, IIRC, also referred to as an extender, to slow the drying time, is common to many other paint usages, like furniture, woodwork, etc. Have you tried the Hi-Gloss with Tru-Color? Do you know who manufactures Hi-Gloss? It sounds like a viable product on several levels in our hobby. I want some!

Scott Haycock  


 Scott-
The auto body trade uses the word "reducer" as we would use the word "thinner". Automotive acrylic lacquer reducer is not an additive, just a thinner.

Hi-Gloss acrylic lacquer reducer use to be available in every auto body supply shop. Now that lacquer has been removed from many markets, due to its hi volatility in the effort to reduce photo-chemical smog, future availability might be in jeopardy. I have at least one unopened gallon can left. I see that the hardware store brands of lacquer thinner are still available here in Southern California. As I stated yesterday, a friend of mine uses the hardware store lacquer thinner for his Accu-Paint reducing with good results.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA








Andy Carlson
 

I use either a gray or white primer for all Accu-Paint spray jobs. Adherence is probably the weakest aspect of Accu-Paint and a primer coat is essential in my opinion. Also, the opaqueness of Accu-Paint is somewhat compromised so to get good color rendition you need a light colored primer. I like white primer for reds, yellows and orange.


Most of my Accu-Paint work is for plastic/resin items. I like to use automotive lacquer for brass, though I have some resin cars painted with lacquer which look good (but that is not what this topic is about).


From: "Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC]"

 
Andy,

Does the stuff work nice with plastics ?

To give you a benchmark on that with me.......... I even get ordinary ScaleCoat paint [type-one] to work okay on plastics.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA

On May 29, 2015, at 9:01 PM, Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC] wrote:

>
> Hello-
>
> I was convinced years ago by a Jim Six article on Accu-paint. Jim said that he reduced all of his Accu-paint with automotive lacquer thinner (much better than the hardware store lacquer thinner, which I use for clean-up) for his Accu-Paint jobs. Although a friend of mine gets good results with the hardware store thinner).
>
> I use "Hot Shop"automotive acrylic lacquer reducer. Called hot shop for use in hot weather so the lacquer won't dry before it lands on the intended surface, creating a dull finish. It is also called "Hi-Gloss" because its lower volitility stays wet longer producing a nice gloss.
>
> I am very satisfied with these results over the years, and I see no reason to change now. A gallon can is not too expensive, about what a quart of Tru-color reducer would cost. The Accu-Paint thinner had alcohol and acetone, which I believe automotive lacquer reducers also have.
> -Andy Carlson
> Ojai CA



Andy Harman
 

I don't like using primer unless I have to.  Mainly light colors.  And adhesion issues aren't on my "fun challenge" list either.  Fortunately most of the colors I use frequently cover well.  Pullman green, dark blue, tuscan and freight car browns, black, and medium grays.

Sent from my overpriced graham cracker

On May 30, 2015, at 11:33 AM, "Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

I use either a gray or white primer for all Accu-Paint spray jobs. Adherence is probably the weakest aspect of Accu-Paint and a primer coat is essential in my opinion. Also, the opaqueness of Accu-Paint is somewhat compromised so to get good color rendition you need a light colored primer. I like white primer for reds, yellows and orange.


Most of my Accu-Paint work is for plastic/resin items. I like to use automotive lacquer for brass, though I have some resin cars painted with lacquer which look good (but that is not what this topic is about).

From: "Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>

 
Andy,

Does the stuff work nice with plastics ?

To give you a benchmark on that with me.......... I even get ordinary ScaleCoat paint [type-one] to work okay on plastics.

Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA

On May 29, 2015, at 9:01 PM, Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

>
> Hello-
>
> I was convinced years ago by a Jim Six article on Accu-paint. Jim said that he reduced all of his Accu-paint with automotive lacquer thinner (much better than the hardware store lacquer thinner, which I use for clean-up) for his Accu-Paint jobs. Although a friend of mine gets good results with the hardware store thinner).
>
> I use "Hot Shop"automotive acrylic lacquer reducer. Called hot shop for use in hot weather so the lacquer won't dry before it lands on the intended surface, creating a dull finish. It is also called "Hi-Gloss" because its lower volitility stays wet longer producing a nice gloss.
>
> I am very satisfied with these results over the years, and I see no reason to change now. A gallon can is not too expensive, about what a quart of Tru-color reducer would cost. The Accu-Paint thinner had alcohol and acetone, which I believe automotive lacquer reducers also have.
> -Andy Carlson
> Ojai CA