Date
1 - 20 of 27
Photos, copyright etc.
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Guys,
A quick note about photos on the STMFC. Due to copyright laws...yes, we still have them...copyright must either be held by the displayer or copyright must be expired to be displayed on the STMFC. This is mandated both by the federal gvt and Yahoo. So, before you send a photo to the Yahoo Group photo area, be sure you own copyright of the photo. STMFC management must approve all photos placed in the photo section in order to ensure compliance with copyright laws. It is, obviously, not easy to do that. I would also note that one upload of a photo to the STMFC photo area is all that is required. Multiple uploads do NOT enhance approval of a photo. I would also add that the STMFC is NOT the forum to discuss copyright laws. Mike Brock STMFC Owner |
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Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Hi Mike,
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I am sending this on-list, and I hope it is OK to do that. I have a question regarding your post, and am seeking clarification. You wrote "copyright must either be held by the displayer or copyright must be expired" For purposes of posting to this list - at what point is copyright expired? How does one determine this, so one can know if it is OK (or not) to post an image to the list? - Claus Schlund ----- Original Message -----
From: "'Mike Brock' brockm@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 8:11 AM Subject: [STMFC] Photos, copyright etc. Guys, |
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Claus Schlund writes:
"For purposes of posting to this list - at what point is copyright expired? How does one determine this, so one can know if it is OK (or not) to post an image to the list?" First, it is always OK to submit a photo for inclusion in the STMFC photo area. It is certainly best to own copyright of the photo. Second, unfortunately, the copyright laws are complex. I don't have time now to explain how they impact the STMFC. Copyright laws were impacted significantly on Jan 1, 1978. My suggestion is to do your own research into copyright law by simply going to the below site. http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ15a.pdf I would also note that one of our members, Tony Thompson, is very knowledgeable about copyright laws and if Tony wishes to comment on the laws and the STMFC, I welcome it. I would add that circumventing the requirement that STMFC management approve all photos by using a different photo system is not a good idea and, in fact, will not be permitted. This is a yahoo requirement. Last, under no circumstances is anyone allowed to send me $1000 which I am allowed to use as I wish. Such an action will get you jail time so don't send me the $1000...or any other sum for that matter. Oh, I accept personal checks. Mike Brock |
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FYI, it has been rumored that our esteemed sheriff likes to play Monopoly. Do NOT cross him by buying a railroad. Chuck Peck On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 12:03 PM, 'Mike Brock' brockm@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Spen Kellogg <spninetynine@...>
On 6/9/2015 10:24 AM, Charles Peck
lnnrr152@... [STMFC] wrote:
Shucks. I was going to buy the UP and rename it SP. Spen Kellogg |
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mwbauers
Mike,
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Please post at what point an image is out of copyright and available for general use? You post we must own the copyright and there are those outside of copyright that have no such ownership. We need to be certain of those for posting. Thank you, Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi
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Tom Madden
Mike Bauers pleaded: > Please post at what point an image is out of copyright and > available for general use? You post we must own the copyright > and there are those outside of copyright that have no such > ownership. We need to be certain of those for posting. If Mike Brock will permit, here's what I do on the Passenger Car List. (The PCL and STMFC lists are, if not conjoined twins, at least closely related. There is a huge membership overlap, and Mike is one of my PCL moderators.) The issue is, photos posted to a group's Photos area can be downloaded and shared. Yahoo has made it very clear that there will be no Napster-like unauthorized sharing of copyrighted material going on in Yahoo Groups. This applies to both the Photos and Files areas, but is much more of a potential problem with photos. It is up to the person submitting the photo to determine whether he has the right to post that photo. If you submit a photo to the PCL and it isn't obvious (to me) that it's one you took, I will email you and ask if the photo is: A. one you took or B. in the public domain or C. you have documentable permission from the person holding the copyright to post the photo. If you respond that you do have the right, I will approve the photo, no questions asked. I will also save your email asserting your right to post the photo. If the vaunted and feared Copyright Police were to come calling, they will be given a copy of your email. Again, it is not up to the list owner or moderators to decide whether you have the right to post a particular photo - you have to do your own due diligence. Tom Madden |
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Mike Bauers writes:
"Please post at what point an image is out of copyright and available for general use?" First, I suggest you read my message of 12:04 PM where I say that I don't have time right now to study and comment more on the copyright laws. You may, however, study them yourself. "You post we must own the copyright and there are those outside of copyright that have no such ownership. We need to be certain of those for posting." There is one really certain way of knowing that you own copyright. Take the photo yourself. And, for sure, do NOT under any circumstances send me any money. Mike Brock STMFC Owner |
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Dave Nelson
AFAIK the most conservative answer is 70 years before the current date for anything created by an individual for himself and 90 for works for hire and/or corporate creations. If you assume books are works for hire you get June, 1925. If you assume photos are personal works you get June 1945. General speaking the owner of a print does not hold the copyright… the guy with the negative does (it’s just like owning a book… you own the printed paper but the author owns the story).
I have read conflicting answers WRT works that were copyrighted but had not requested an extension.
Dave Nelson
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 9:39 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Photos, copyright etc.
Please post at what point an image is out of copyright and available for general use? You post we must own the copyright and there are those outside of copyright that have no such ownership. We need to be certain of those for posting.
Thank you,
Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi |
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Tony Thompson
Claus Schlund wrote:
The broad answer is that anything copyrighted later than 1922 MAY still be in copyright if copyrights were renewed. Anything created later than 1978 IS copyrighted, automatically under the law. But photos are a special problem, if taken before 1978, because they were not then automatically copyrighted by the creator as they are today, and very few photographers bothered to register copyright for photos prior to 1978. If they were not copyrighted earlier, and you purchased the negative or original slide, AND you are sure no one else holds written transfer of copyright, it's yours, and in fact if the legitimate owner, YOU can copyright it now. That's why owning a print or slide copy conveys exactly NOTHING to you in the way of copyright, because there is an original somewhere. There ARE photos in the public domain, but you need to be sure. That's the case for many but NOT all railroad PR photos, for example. You have to check. The short answer, which Claus probably wants and Mike too, is that you need to be either (a) the original photographer, or (b) be able to offer PROOF you have rights to reproduce and/or publish an image, or (c) be able to prove public domain, before you can safely post on line. These are similar to the points made by Tom Madden in his post. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Dave Nelson
Two more comments: There is a yahoogroup thatr Mike setup for discussing copyright issues… IIRC it is called Licen@.... Second comment is there is a whole lot of copyfraud going on… people asserting the have a copyright on something when they do not. One example that comes to mind is a xeroxed booklet reproducing some freight car folio drawings. Maybe the original is in the public domain, maybe not, but making a Xerox of something you didn’t author doesn’t grant you copyright on anything.
Dave Nelson
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 9:39 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Photos, copyright etc.
Please post at what point an image is out of copyright and available for general use? You post we must own the copyright and there are those outside of copyright that have no such ownership. We need to be certain of those for posting.
Thank you,
Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi
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Tony Thompson
Dave Nelson wrote:
I will illustrate one of my prior points, and touch on Dave's comment, with the story of Will Whittaker's freight car photos, of which he took a really large number. Late in his life he began selling off negatives, but no one purchasing them had asked for, nor had Will offered, transfer of copyright. Arnold Menke, who had not found out about the sales quickly enough to buy the entire collection, bought everything still remaining, AND also bought Will's 3-ring binders of prints, which included ALL of the collection, including prints of the negatives which had been sold. Arnold requested, and Will complied, with a letter transferring copyright to ALL the images, as part of the sale to Menke. That means that those who purchased some of the negatives cannot publish the photos (or post them on line) without Menke's permission. Arnold in fact is not restrictive at all and would readily grant permission; but you still need to ask. You cannot assume permission, from Menke or from anyone. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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mwbauers
Interesting……..
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But you don’t tell us what is currently public domain for images. Is this link what we need to refer to? https://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm Perhaps down to this as a general rule ….… ?? Never Published, Never Registered Works “ What was in the public domain in the U.S. as of 1 January 2015 Unpublished works when the death date of the author is not known 120 years from date of creation Works created before 1895 “ And…. Works Registered or First Published in the U.S. needs to be read for years published and related restrictions of works Is this the right site to use as reference???? Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jun 9, 2015, at 12:21 PM, pullmanboss wrote: |
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Dave Parker
I found this site to be helpful and relatively brief:
It is oriented towards academic/educational use, but seems to contain the needed basics. Dave Parker Riverside, CA |
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mwbauers
Please clarify this for me……..
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If I own the negative, I may not own the copyright and thus it can not be posted in this group? [I have some of those] Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi
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Tony Thompson
Mike Bauers wrote:
Right. If you know the photographer (or relatives thereof) you may be able to find out if copyright was transferred to anyone else. But if you have no knowledge of that status, I would say you are not out of the woods. If I were wishing to include such a photo in a book, I would make extensive efforts to find out the copyright status, but for an on-line posting, you may not care enough. But Mike is JUST about to bring down the hammer on this discussion, as it is not about freight cars per se. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Hi,
I have just(?) a couple of questions: 1) If a photo is in a book - that is copyrighted - does that copyright only apply to the book or does it also apply to the photo? Isn't it the publisher of the book's responsibility to clear the right to put a photo in a book? 2) I have always thought that including a -link- to a photo that is somewhere on the web does not violate copyright laws - that it is the responsibility of the person who posted it to the web to adhere to the law. Correct? If yes, then it is OK to post here on Yahoo groups - a link to a photo somewhere else on the web - also correct? - Jim P.S. Moderator/owner - I realize that you didn't want this to evolve into a lengthy discussion on copyrights - which is clearly not within the scope of STMFC ... but it affects us all and I don't see any way for me to avoid asking a question right here on this group. *Sigh* If this means I get put in moderate jail I hope the bread and water can be made to taste like caviar and champagne since I have that every day (or is that "I eat crow every day"?) ... hey, it's a virtual jail so "anything goes". |
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Bradley Bower <bradley.bower@...>
Gentlemen The following data link is from the Cornell University Law School on Copyright. This should help clarify this issue on Copyright in the public domain and get use back to the discussion of freight cars. Best Regards Bradley C. Bower 484.269.4877 Bradley C. Bower 484.269.4877 On Jun 9, 2015, at 13:57, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Tony Thompson
jim betz wrote:
Only the book is copyrighted. All authors get permission for use of any images they use, if their publishers are paying attention. The permission to publish in a book is often "single use only," meaning that no permission for OTHER publication was granted. Sure, the publisher has made sure the author got permission for THAT use; but that has NOTHING to do with YOUR right to use said photo. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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mwbauers
I think at this point the matter should be dropped.
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This post shows that the topic has fallen to the level of guessing what might have happened in a case, and if so what that might mean…… Its simply speculative and not a set-in concrete event with certainty on the related copyright rules. I’m going with the Law School page of conditions and related restrictions as -the- reference to use. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi
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