Date
1  9 of 9
Determining Rung Spacing When Scratch Building Ladders
Bill Welch
I have posted over on the Resin Car Works Blog an easy technique for figuring out rung spacing when scratch building freight car ladders: Resin Car Works Blog Bill Welch


Jack Mullen
Bill,
This is a clear description.of a good method, which I'm sure is new to many. I think there's one small error though, which you may wish to check. I think you mean to lay out 7 spaces, not 8, for 8 rungs. I very much appreciate all you've done to research and share your knowledge of the FGEX consortium. A BIG thank you, and hope to see the book soon! Jack Mullen


Robert kirkham
OK, I’m always grateful to learn new tricks, but this one I do not
follow. Bill  what is the advantage you are gaining with the diagonal
lines? I do not see how drawing equally spaced marks on the diagonals is
easier than doing so on the vertical line? Clearly I’m missing
something. Can you explain.
Rob Kirkham


Scott H. Haycock
Bill's explanation was hard for me to follow, and I know the trick. I'll try to explain it by example. I took an HO boxcar off my layout and, using a ruler, measured a side ladder. The top rung is 19/32". or 1.28125" from the bottom rung, center to center. There are 7 rungs in the ladder. 7 rungs means 6 spaces between rungs. The spacing between rung works out to .2135", an inconvenient measurement! For this to work, you want to use a measurement that is less than the total (1.28125''). 6 times 3/16" equals 1.125", a lesser number. Now, Take a piece of paper and draw 7 parallel lines, 3/16" apart. Take a piece of cardstock, and make a pair of small marks 19/32" apart along one edge. Align the bottom mark on the cardstock, with the bottommost line.Rotate the card so that the top mark lines up with the top line. This is where the angle comes in. Now all the other lines can be marked on the card, and they will be evenly spaced. This is easier to do, than explain. Try it with my numbers, then you'll grasp the concept. Scott Haycock OK, I’m always grateful to learn new tricks, but this one I do not follow. Bill  what is the advantage you are gaining with the diagonal lines? I do not see how drawing equally spaced marks on the diagonals is easier than doing so on the vertical line? Clearly I’m missing something. Can you explain. Rob Kirkham


John Barry
The technique works with notebook paper or any other set of parallel lines as long as they are spaced closer than your desired spacing. You don't even need a ruler! Just transfer the distance between the top and bottom to your cardstock, then place one mark on the first line, and swing the other till it is on the seventh line (or six or five for fewer rungs). Mark the intersections on your template and you have your rung spacing. If you really want it to the gnats a.., pick the distance off the model with locking dividers, swing those to the number of desired rungs, then butt your template edge against the dividers and mark or draw a line on the parallel lines and reset the dividers to the interval along the line. What you are doing is using the equal interval of the parallel lines to divide the uneven distance. It's a slick trick you can use for all sorts of evenly spaced layout tasks like gondola ribs, panel seams, window mullions, etc. John John Barry
ATSF North Bay Lines Golden Gates & Fast Freights 7074909696 PO Box 44736 Washington, DC 200264736 From: "'Scott H. Haycock ' shhaycock@... [STMFC]" To: Steam Era Freight Cars Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Determining Rung Spacing When Scratch Building Ladders Bill's explanation was hard for me to follow, and I know the trick. I'll try to explain it by example. I took an HO boxcar off my layout and, using a ruler, measured a side ladder. The top rung is 19/32". or 1.28125" from the bottom rung, center to center. There are 7 rungs in the ladder. 7 rungs means 6 spaces between rungs. The spacing between rung works out to .2135", an inconvenient measurement! For this to work, you want to use a measurement that is less than the total (1.28125''). 6 times 3/16" equals 1.125", a lesser number. Now, Take a piece of paper and draw 7 parallel lines, 3/16" apart. Take a piece of cardstock, and make a pair of small marks 19/32" apart along one edge. Align the bottom mark on the cardstock, with the bottommost line.Rotate the card so that the top mark lines up with the top line. This is where the angle comes in. Now all the other lines can be marked on the card, and they will be evenly spaced. This is easier to do, than explain. Try it with my numbers, then you'll grasp the concept. Scott Haycock OK, I’m always grateful to learn new tricks, but this one I do not follow. Bill  what is the advantage you are gaining with the diagonal lines? I do not see how drawing equally spaced marks on the diagonals is easier than doing so on the vertical line? Clearly I’m missing something. Can you explain. Rob Kirkham


Robert kirkham
Thanks for the explanation Scott (and Greg Kennelly of list).
Rob Kirkham
From: mailto:STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Determining Rung Spacing When Scratch
Building Ladders Bill's explanation was hard for me to follow, and
I know the trick. I'll try to explain it by example.
I took an HO boxcar off my layout and, using a
ruler, measured a side ladder. The top rung is 19/32". or 1.28125" from the
bottom rung, center to center. There are 7 rungs in the ladder. 7 rungs means 6
spaces between rungs. The spacing between rung works out to .2135", an
inconvenient measurement!
For this to work, you want to use a measurement
that is less than the total (1.28125''). 6 times 3/16" equals 1.125", a lesser
number.
Now, Take a piece
of paper and draw 7 parallel lines, 3/16" apart. Take a piece of cardstock, and
make a pair of small marks 19/32" apart along one edge. Align the bottom
mark on the cardstock, with the bottommost line.Rotate the card so that the top
mark lines up with the top line. This is where the angle comes in. Now all the
other lines can be marked on the card, and they will be evenly spaced.
This is easier to
do, than explain. Try it with my numbers, then you'll grasp the concept.
Scott Haycock
OK, I’m always grateful to learn new tricks, but this one I do not
follow. Bill  what is the advantage you are gaining with the diagonal
lines? I do not see how drawing equally spaced marks on the diagonals is
easier than doing so on the vertical line? Clearly I’m missing
something. Can you explain.
Rob Kirkham


Robert kirkham
Speaking of ladders and tools, for the origami brass ladders used in
Yarmouth kits, I’ve used a scrap piece of styrene cut to a squared letter C
shape. Along the top and bottom of the C, I superglue grab irons so the
wire mounting arms are sticking up from the jig. The wire arms
provides 4 mounting points for the two ladder stiles, and makes it easy to glue
the remaining rungs into place while keeping the ladder square. One
they are complete, the ladder is removed from the jig and the top and bottom
rungs can be added.
Rob Kirkham
From: mailto:STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 4:23 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Determining Rung Spacing When Scratch
Building Ladders The technique works with notebook paper or
any other set of parallel lines as long as they are spaced closer than your
desired spacing. You don't even need a ruler! Just transfer the
distance between the top and bottom to your cardstock, then place one mark on
the first line, and swing the other till it is on the seventh line (or six or
five for fewer rungs). Mark the intersections on your template and you
have your rung spacing. If you really want it to the gnats a.., pick the
distance off the model with locking dividers, swing those to the number of
desired rungs, then butt your template edge against the dividers and mark or
draw a line on the parallel lines and reset the dividers to the interval along
the line. What you are doing is using the equal interval of the parallel
lines to divide the uneven distance. It's a slick trick you can use for
all sorts of evenly spaced layout tasks like gondola ribs, panel seams, window
mullions, etc.
John
John Barry ATSF North Bay Lines Golden Gates & Fast Freights 7074909696 PO Box 44736 Washington, DC 200264736 From: "'Scott H. Haycock ' shhaycock@... [STMFC]" To: Steam Era Freight Cars Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Determining Rung Spacing When Scratch Building Ladders Bill's explanation was hard for me to follow, and I know the trick. I'll
try to explain it by example.
I took an HO boxcar off my layout and, using a ruler, measured a side
ladder. The top rung is 19/32". or 1.28125" from the bottom rung, center to
center. There are 7 rungs in the ladder. 7 rungs means 6 spaces between rungs.
The spacing between rung works out to .2135", an inconvenient measurement!
For this to work, you want to use a measurement that is less than the total
(1.28125''). 6 times 3/16" equals 1.125", a lesser number.
Now, Take a piece of paper and draw 7
parallel lines, 3/16" apart. Take a piece of cardstock, and make a pair of small
marks 19/32" apart along one edge. Align the bottom mark on the
cardstock, with the bottommost line.Rotate the card so that the top mark lines
up with the top line. This is where the angle comes in. Now all the other lines
can be marked on the card, and they will be evenly spaced.
This is easier to do, than explain. Try it
with my numbers, then you'll grasp the concept.
Scott Haycock
OK, I’m always grateful to learn new tricks, but this one I do not
follow. Bill  what is the advantage you are gaining with the diagonal
lines? I do not see how drawing equally spaced marks on the diagonals is
easier than doing so on the vertical line? Clearly I’m missing
something. Can you explain.
Rob Kirkham


gewaldphoto
It's a common trick from drafting to use a ruler or other object with
evenly spaced markings on it to divide a line into equal units. The
example in the blog post is more complicated than I remember the
technique. Much easier than measuring to four decimal points and trying
to get a spacing without a strange remainder left over.
No need for the parallel lines at 30 degrees in the blog post. I would recommend just making a right triangle where one side is the distance between the top and bottom rungs of the ladder. The other right angle side would be the bottom rung position on the ladder and would extend out as far as you need it to make the the long end, or hypotenuse, a convenient length. For seven steps that might be 1.5 inches with a mark at each quarter inch or it could be 5/16ths if that is easier, then use a Tsquare to transfer the marks on the hypotenuse over to the side that corresponds with the distance from the top to the bottom rung. In drafting we had triangle shaped rulers with inches divided in different ways on the 6 different edges. Much easier to use than a standard ruler in inches. One might be in 1/10ths of an inch, another in 1/12ths, another in 1/6ths and so on. Centimeters and millimeters might be easier than inches and fractions of an inch. You can easily adapt this to any scale, just use bigger spaces on the ruler and angle it so you get enough divisions you need. Garrett 
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Tim O'Connor
hmmmm... I think micrometer or calipers (to measure the maximum separation)
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
then a calculator to determine the spacing (down to .001) and then the micrometer again open to exactly that  then set my locking dividers to that measurement. then poke, twist, poke, twist, poke, twist, poke ... each rung is marked on a straight line. done. Tim O'Connor
The technique works with notebook paper or any other set of parallel lines as long as they are spaced closer than your desired spacing. You don't even need a ruler! Just transfer the distance between the top and bottom to your cardstock, then place one mark on the first line, and swing the other till it is on the seventh line (or six or five for fewer rungs). Mark the intersections on your template and you have your rung spacing. If you really want it to the gnats a.., pick the distance off the model with locking dividers, swing those to the number of desired rungs, then butt your template edge against the dividers and mark or draw a line on the parallel lines and reset the dividers to the interval along the line. What you are doing is using the equal interval of the parallel lines to divide the uneven distance. It's a slick trick you can use for all sorts of evenly spaced layout tasks like gondola ribs, panel seams, window mullions, etc.

